Who makes a Good ak47?

iGunny40 · June 15, 2013, 01:14 PM

I have been looking for a Good Ak47 and I can't decide, all I know Is I want a "Milspec" AKM.

I would like for It to be Milled, not stamped. I also want a chrome lined 16" hammer forged barrel In It.

I have a couple companies In mind like arsenal or black heart International, what are you're thoughts on these companies? If you were to Get an AKM from them, what model would you Get and why?

Quentin2 · June 15, 2013, 05:22 PM

I don't know if "milspec" should be applied here, these things are made from everything even a shovel blade!

Anyway, even the WASR 10 is a good AKM, just start researching the models and one will rise to the top for you. A lot of people like to convert the Saiga but of course it's a stamped receiver like most AKs.

buffalo · June 15, 2013, 07:03 PM

Personally I think Milled AK's are a waste of money but if I was going to spend that much money on one i'd go with a Arsenal,i had one years back and it was a very nice rifle.

FrosSsT · June 15, 2013, 07:34 PM

Arsenal Inc makes a good AK clone. I have a WASR 10/63 that hasnt given me any issues but compared to the Arsenal it doesn't seem to be built as well.

Aberration · June 15, 2013, 10:08 PM

Be careful with the 'Arsenal'. Many people selling Arsenals that are actually FIME. And while it is claimed that they use the same parts to convert them, I am suspecting the quality. Mine was unable to zero easily, I had to move the front site post all the way to the left to get it on at 100 yds.

American Red Neck · June 15, 2013, 10:17 PM

saiga 762x39 is the best ak you can get. buy the rifle then convert and there you go..authentic russian ak

Nathan · June 15, 2013, 10:24 PM

How are you defining good? IMO, there really aren't any good AK's. most are reliable, but accuracy is always bad by AR standards. They are hard to he optics on with a good mount.

SF Mike · June 15, 2013, 10:38 PM

Agree with Natahn.

There are effective AKs that live up to their designed use.
Fairly rugged and dependable.
They can make you uncomfortable at a couple hundred yards.
That Factor increased with reduced distance.

JHansenAK47 · June 15, 2013, 10:44 PM

Quote:

I would like for It to be Milled

For a milled rifle i'd look for an Arsenal or chinese rifle.

Quote:

I would like for It to be Milled, not stamped.

Milled is extra weight IMO. The actions on milled guns are generally butter smooth but any accuracy gain is going to be minimal with no noticeable difference unless shot off sandbags. Honestly if I wanted bullet proof tough with a heavy chromelined barrel i'd be more inclined towards the VEPR series of rifles.

Quote:

Many people selling Arsenals that are actually FIME

I thought Arsenal more or less owned or controlled FIME group corporately.
http://www.fimegroup.com/About-Us/
http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/help.p...us&mode=update
They are both in las vegas nevada. Plus FIME group is using the SGL designation on their rifles just like Arsenal was.

tahunua001 · June 15, 2013, 11:04 PM

along those lines remington makes R15 and R25 AR style rifles and sells them at remington brand prices but in reality those are just DPMS panthers with different stamps on the side...

although a closer analogy would be people buying POS Umarex rimfires made out of pot metal because they have Colt stamped on them. be careful with namebrand purchases as sometimes even brands associated with quality may endorse models made by lower quality manufacturers with the intention of making a quick buck.

spacecoast · June 17, 2013, 10:21 AM

My milled Lancaster shoots nice groups (iron sights, Tula steel cased ammo) as shown below but I believe the barrel is SS.

[/IMG]

spyderdude · June 17, 2013, 10:26 PM

I had a Polish Milled AK that was built by Century Arms. The milled AKs are nice and definitely solid in their construction. However the added weight of a milled receiver as opposed to stamped is unnecessary for most practical purposes. There is a reason Russia went back to using stamped receivers when they figured out how to properly assemble the rifles. The Saiga rifles built at Izhmash in Russia are said to be the ones to go with because well they're built where the AK was born and made on the same assembly line as Russia's military issue weapons. I don't think you can get anymore "mil-spec" than that. With that said, I really like my Arsenal SGL21 and is based on the AK-103. I got lucky and ended up buying one of the last ones to be converted by Arsenal before FIME Group took over production of the SGL series. I wouldn't hesitate to pick up a FIME Group rifle either though.

TXAZ · June 17, 2013, 10:51 PM

I've had a milled and stamped Norinco. Both were excellent. If you have the $s Polytech is reputedly top of the line.

**JohnKSa** · June 17, 2013, 10:57 PM

I've owned a couple of nice milled Bulgarian AKs. Sold them years ago but kept my stamped Hungarian AK. A good quality stamped AK gives up nothing to a milled AK and saves a lot of weight.

Yung.gunr · June 18, 2013, 11:19 PM

If you want a milled reciever because of it's perceived strength I would go with something like this. It seems to be the best of both worlds, lighter than milled, stronger than stamped. (Vepr, in case link goes bad)

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/comp....html?Itemid=0

DISCAIMER: I've never shot or handled one.

Aaron1100us · June 19, 2013, 02:21 AM

I love my Arsenal SLR-101S. Even though its milled, it is not heavy by any means. Very solid and the parts fit together better than some others. Well worth the $$ IMO.

Skarekrow88 · June 19, 2013, 03:56 AM

Go with Arsenal, can't be beaten. I own an Arsenal Saiga SGL-20 (stamped receiver) 7.62x39mm. Had it since 2008, shot it a lot, and it performs just the way it did out of the box. I outshoot my buddy, who owns S&W M&P-15, at 100 yards all day long with my setup. He uses an Aimpoint red dot with 3x magnifier behind it while I use a 4x magnification POSP scope so I'd say thats pretty closely matched up.

chrisp51 · June 19, 2013, 09:17 AM

I have shot the Inter-ordanance (IO) AKM and it is a nice rifle. See if you can find a used Norinco (Chinese) in good shape.

MC 1911 · June 19, 2013, 06:56 PM

Arsenal is a top of the line AK and I've had several. For the money I would check out the M&M M-10. They come in several configurations for $600-$800 and are every bit as nice as the Arsenal IMO.

I sold my SGL 21 to get one & have no regrets!!

RC20 · June 20, 2013, 01:41 PM

A stamped MAK90 is as good as they come, its the thickest AK out there and as the previous poser stated, can't tell the difference.

Accurate? All over the map, good ones can be poor and bad ones can be pretty decent. Reliable is the key with an AK and that can vary as well, but the well regarded ones are much better than the junk ones.

As for Mil Spec, there is no such thing for an AK.

The truly accurized AKs can be good shooters

Venom1956 · June 22, 2013, 09:48 PM

IO are not even on the same page as Arsenal.

Arsenal is probably the best non custom for the money. Then you get into the Krebs Custom territory.

Aberration · June 23, 2013, 12:35 PM

Quote:

I thought Arsenal more or less owned or controlled FIME group corporately.
http://www.fimegroup.com/About-Us/
http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/help.p...us&mode=update
They are both in las vegas nevada. Plus FIME group is using the SGL designation on their rifles just like Arsenal was.

More or less? All I can get out of them is that FIME is now handling the Saiga imports, and they have their own staff to do the conversions.

If I buy a Saiga and convert it myself, its pretty much an Arsenal. Hell if you pick up a rifle and put on some camo you are pretty much Infantry?

I have never heard of screwed up sights on an Arsenal before. Which is why I got it, too many WASR horror stories. Only to end up with one that barely gets on paper at 100 yds.

I bought the same line from the dealer when I picked it up. "Pretty much the same as Arsenal". I wouldn't make the purchase again, and I don't advise anyone else does either.

JHansenAK47 · June 23, 2013, 01:43 PM

Quote:

If I buy a Saiga and convert it myself, its pretty much an Arsenal.

The SGLs are in my opinion nothing more than higher end conversions. A lot the other conversions don't change out the handguards and don't change the frontsight/thread the muzzle. Besides the SGL series is more for people who want the rifle but don't want to do the conversion. I bought an Arsenal marked SGL21 and SGL31 because they were already converted.

Quote:

I have never heard of screwed up sights on an Arsenal before.

You should google the early SLR106 rifles. Mine is centered (almost perfectly center) but as I understand it mine was made after they figured out their sight machine was out of calibration and fixed it.

Quote:

All I can get out of them is that FIME is now handling the Saiga imports, and they have their own staff to do the conversions.

My arsenal marked SGL rifles look almost identical except for markings to the FIME group rifles. Same process at a different location perhaps. If it is indeed a different shop or just under new management (maybe retaining a hands off corporate control) I wouldn't be surprised if they had problems. What I would expect however is for them to streamline and for future production to have less problems.

Quote:

Which is why I got it, too many WASR horror stories.

WASR rifles are decent they just suffer from being economy rifles. The dollar has driven their production both to undercut the competition on price and make money on the same stroke.

dvdcrr · June 23, 2013, 01:47 PM

I have owned close to 12 different and I prefer the Bulgarian Arsenals.

Willie D · June 23, 2013, 07:20 PM

For clarity's sake: any Arsenals or Fime rifles marked "SGL" are converted Saigas, originally from Russia. It would be nice if people refered to these as Saiga rifles because that is what they are (with a few mods to make them USA legal once the get stateside).

The SLR, SAM, SAR, etc. are made by Arsenal Bulgaria. Again, Arsensal Nevada does some work when they get stateside but these are Bulgarian rifles, not Russian.

June 15, 2013, 01:14 PM	#1
iGunny40 Member Join Date: June 8, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 46	Who makes a Good ak47? I have been looking for a Good Ak47 and I can't decide, all I know Is I want a "Milspec" AKM. I would like for It to be Milled, not stamped. I also want a chrome lined 16" hammer forged barrel In It. I have a couple companies In mind like arsenal or black heart International, what are you're thoughts on these companies? If you were to Get an AKM from them, what model would you Get and why? __________________ Gun control Is like Trying to reduce drunk Driving by making It tougher for sober people to own cars!

June 15, 2013, 11:04 PM	#10
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	along those lines remington makes R15 and R25 AR style rifles and sells them at remington brand prices but in reality those are just DPMS panthers with different stamps on the side... although a closer analogy would be people buying POS Umarex rimfires made out of pot metal because they have Colt stamped on them. be careful with namebrand purchases as sometimes even brands associated with quality may endorse models made by lower quality manufacturers with the intention of making a quick buck. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

June 17, 2013, 10:51 PM	#13
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	I've had a milled and stamped Norinco. Both were excellent. If you have the $s Polytech is reputedly top of the line. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

June 17, 2013, 10:57 PM	#14
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,985	I've owned a couple of nice milled Bulgarian AKs. Sold them years ago but kept my stamped Hungarian AK. A good quality stamped AK gives up nothing to a milled AK and saves a lot of weight. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

June 19, 2013, 02:21 AM	#16
Aaron1100us Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2011 Posts: 235	Re: Who makes a Good ak47? I love my Arsenal SLR-101S. Even though its milled, it is not heavy by any means. Very solid and the parts fit together better than some others. Well worth the $$ IMO.

June 15, 2013, 05:22 PM	#2
Quentin2 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Location: NorthWest USA Posts: 1,996	I don't know if "milspec" should be applied here, these things are made from everything even a shovel blade! Anyway, even the WASR 10 is a good AKM, just start researching the models and one will rise to the top for you. A lot of people like to convert the Saiga but of course it's a stamped receiver like most AKs.

June 15, 2013, 07:03 PM	#3
buffalo Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2009 Location: SW Florida Posts: 103	Personally I think Milled AK's are a waste of money but if I was going to spend that much money on one i'd go with a Arsenal,i had one years back and it was a very nice rifle.

June 15, 2013, 07:34 PM	#4
FrosSsT Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 595	Arsenal Inc makes a good AK clone. I have a WASR 10/63 that hasnt given me any issues but compared to the Arsenal it doesn't seem to be built as well.

June 15, 2013, 10:08 PM	#5
Aberration Member Join Date: July 14, 2012 Posts: 35	Be careful with the 'Arsenal'. Many people selling Arsenals that are actually FIME. And while it is claimed that they use the same parts to convert them, I am suspecting the quality. Mine was unable to zero easily, I had to move the front site post all the way to the left to get it on at 100 yds.

June 15, 2013, 10:17 PM	#6
American Red Neck Junior member Join Date: May 8, 2013 Posts: 81	saiga 762x39 is the best ak you can get. buy the rifle then convert and there you go..authentic russian ak

June 15, 2013, 10:24 PM	#7
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	How are you defining good? IMO, there really aren't any good AK's. most are reliable, but accuracy is always bad by AR standards. They are hard to he optics on with a good mount.

June 15, 2013, 10:38 PM	#8
SF Mike Junior Member Join Date: June 13, 2011 Posts: 9	Agree with Natahn. There are effective AKs that live up to their designed use. Fairly rugged and dependable. They can make you uncomfortable at a couple hundred yards. That Factor increased with reduced distance.

June 17, 2013, 10:21 AM	#11
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	My milled Lancaster shoots nice groups (iron sights, Tula steel cased ammo) as shown below but I believe the barrel is SS. [/IMG]

June 17, 2013, 10:26 PM	#12
spyderdude Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Posts: 579	I had a Polish Milled AK that was built by Century Arms. The milled AKs are nice and definitely solid in their construction. However the added weight of a milled receiver as opposed to stamped is unnecessary for most practical purposes. There is a reason Russia went back to using stamped receivers when they figured out how to properly assemble the rifles. The Saiga rifles built at Izhmash in Russia are said to be the ones to go with because well they're built where the AK was born and made on the same assembly line as Russia's military issue weapons. I don't think you can get anymore "mil-spec" than that. With that said, I really like my Arsenal SGL21 and is based on the AK-103. I got lucky and ended up buying one of the last ones to be converted by Arsenal before FIME Group took over production of the SGL series. I wouldn't hesitate to pick up a FIME Group rifle either though.

June 18, 2013, 11:19 PM	#15
Yung.gunr Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2010 Location: Phoenix area Posts: 1,442	If you want a milled reciever because of it's perceived strength I would go with something like this. It seems to be the best of both worlds, lighter than milled, stronger than stamped. (Vepr, in case link goes bad) http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/comp....html?Itemid=0 DISCAIMER: I've never shot or handled one.

June 19, 2013, 03:56 AM	#17
Skarekrow88 Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 332	Go with Arsenal, can't be beaten. I own an Arsenal Saiga SGL-20 (stamped receiver) 7.62x39mm. Had it since 2008, shot it a lot, and it performs just the way it did out of the box. I outshoot my buddy, who owns S&W M&P-15, at 100 yards all day long with my setup. He uses an Aimpoint red dot with 3x magnifier behind it while I use a 4x magnification POSP scope so I'd say thats pretty closely matched up. __________________ "A life fought for others is a life worth living"

June 19, 2013, 09:17 AM	#18
chrisp51 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2012 Location: NC Posts: 148	I have shot the Inter-ordanance (IO) AKM and it is a nice rifle. See if you can find a used Norinco (Chinese) in good shape.

June 19, 2013, 06:56 PM	#19
MC 1911 Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2011 Location: Virginia Posts: 373	Arsenal is a top of the line AK and I've had several. For the money I would check out the M&M M-10. They come in several configurations for $600-$800 and are every bit as nice as the Arsenal IMO. I sold my SGL 21 to get one & have no regrets!!

June 20, 2013, 01:41 PM	#20
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	A stamped MAK90 is as good as they come, its the thickest AK out there and as the previous poser stated, can't tell the difference. Accurate? All over the map, good ones can be poor and bad ones can be pretty decent. Reliable is the key with an AK and that can vary as well, but the well regarded ones are much better than the junk ones. As for Mil Spec, there is no such thing for an AK. The truly accurized AKs can be good shooters

June 22, 2013, 09:48 PM	#21
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	IO are not even on the same page as Arsenal. Arsenal is probably the best non custom for the money. Then you get into the Krebs Custom territory. __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

June 23, 2013, 01:47 PM	#24
dvdcrr Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2010 Posts: 665	I have owned close to 12 different and I prefer the Bulgarian Arsenals.

June 23, 2013, 07:20 PM	#25
Willie D Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Posts: 1,149	For clarity's sake: any Arsenals or Fime rifles marked "SGL" are converted Saigas, originally from Russia. It would be nice if people refered to these as Saiga rifles because that is what they are (with a few mods to make them USA legal once the get stateside). The SLR, SAM, SAR, etc. are made by Arsenal Bulgaria. Again, Arsensal Nevada does some work when they get stateside but these are Bulgarian rifles, not Russian.