IDPA Draw Creating Bad Habits? - Page 2

WESHOOT2 · July 13, 2014, 06:09 AM

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Quote:
If you mean practice, as in demonstrate, "practice what you preach",that's good, but you do not want to literally practice at matches.
Matches are where you demonstrate your abilities, not where you try new techniques with which you are not thoroughly familiar.

Matches are where I try and test new things, so I can put "stress on the systems".....

Matches are never about tactics.

A33102

RickB · July 13, 2014, 04:59 PM

Puts stress on safety, too.

MarkCO · July 13, 2014, 06:27 PM

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but the actual draw in the lions share of defense related shootings, has no bearing. There were a few studies some years back, but I can not find them now, but the number was in the high 90% range that the draw was insignificant when CCW holders were queried about their tactics and facts related to a shooting they were involved in. I have had 4 students shoot their firearms in self defense, draw speed was a factor in none of them, and all were cleared.

If you have not been taught diversionary tactics and other tactics related to close quarters survival, especially against an adversary that already has a gun out, you have some work to do. So too do your avoidance and awareness tactics for failing to get out of harms way. Sure, there are ambushes, but personal safety and awareness are much bigger factors than your draw.

Tactics, personal safety and situation awareness are likely the most neglected aspects of SD and CCW training. The gun media and TV shows, for the most part have us believe that every solution is a "gun" solution, because that sells products, but it is grossly misleading.

If you combine competition for stress innoculation, weapon handling, shooting skills, and separate that from actual tactics, personal safety and situation awareness, there should be little to no chance of getting them mixed up.

Even though driving in the snow takes a bit more skill, I still drive in the summer.

Note: The "you" is generic, not aimed at the OP or anyone else.

WESHOOT2 · July 14, 2014, 03:40 PM

Quote:

personal safety and situation awareness are likely the most neglected aspects of SD

This is the MOST important aspect of personal security.

My favorite weapon is my car.

1-DAB · July 14, 2014, 05:20 PM

well said MarkCO.

i have a local, vicious dog, so now that i know he's coming (he barks and makes noise), i have the chance to draw way before he's chomping at my knees. warning shots into the ground seemed to have worked so far.

SG29736 · July 16, 2014, 06:32 PM

"Is there a IDPA style 'competition' that doesn't involve race guns, race holsters, and soft-loads?

I'm competitive and don't like coming in last against those folks with their fancy equipment who want to win the match.

It would be great if there were folks with their compact pistols and IWB holsters... "

IDPA shooters not using compact pistols and IWB holster in a competition is a far cry from using race guns and holsters. There is minimum power factors in the different divisions also. While they aren't full power defensive loads they aren't the soft loads allowed in other shooting competitions. Mark

RickB · July 17, 2014, 12:11 PM

Under the new (now almost a year old) IDPA rules, clubs may establish their own divisions under the Not For Competition rule.
Someone suggested reducing the standard IDPA box by one inch in both dimensions, to limit a division to compact guns, without having to enforce the capacity limits and no-reloads of BUG.
A club could require IWB, or some other standard to help ensure "real carry holsters", etc.
Of course, the power floors for the existing divisions are "soft" only if you are using a full-sized gun; shoot some factory .45 hardball, or white box 9mm through a 3" gun, and it might be pretty darn close to the lower limit.

7Cedars · July 18, 2014, 04:43 PM

I have shot IDPA a few times and really enjoyed it. I knew going into it that I wasn't going to win any matches and I certainly didn't consider it a game. It is a great use of the skills I currently have while adding a bit of pressure, and if u think there isn't much pressure at an IDPA match, try going to your first one. That pressure while shooting I feel has made me a more competent firearms handler. Practicing target acquisition while moving, shooting etc....is fantastic. Learning proper tactical priority and doing that repeatedly is invaluable in my opinion. And if you carry concealed is that the goal we should all have? I used my XD40 sub compact for the shoot. Certainly not an ideal gun for the competition, but that is what I carry most of the time when I carry concealed, so why not? And yes I did get a few looks from some of the more serious competitors, but I was there for me, not them. And I ALWAYS had fun and learned something new. I would be doing it a lot more if I could get reloading supplies easier.

bamaranger · July 30, 2014, 01:22 AM

Why not a wardrobe change?

Captains1911 · July 30, 2014, 01:53 PM

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Why not a wardrobe change?

Are you suggesting to dress like a competition shooter everyday? Yeah, that's going to happen....

motorhead0922 · July 30, 2014, 03:58 PM

Quote:

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but the actual draw in the lions share of defense related shootings, has no bearing. There were a few studies some years back, but I can not find them now, but the number was in the high 90% range that the draw was insignificant when CCW holders were queried about their tactics and facts related to a shooting they were involved in. I have had 4 students shoot their firearms in self defense, draw speed was a factor in none of them, and all were cleared.

Very interesting MarkCO. I'd like to know more if you find your info. PM me if it doesn't fit a topic.

Captains 1911, I refuse to get a vest for IDPA. I want my IDPA time to be as real-life as possible as far as gun handling situations go. I dress for IDPA the way I dress on the street. That means my left hand pulls up my shirt for every draw.

I shot a classifier with IWB and my 9mm Shield (a BUG for IDPA). Didn't make marksman. Oh, well...

Jim243 · July 30, 2014, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Just another reason I don't like silly rules.. practice what you actually carry and wear!!!!!

Where would you suggest??? Outside my front door (I live in a big city across the street from the Police Station), or at a pistol range that does not allow drawing and firing from your holster. IDPA is the only place where it can be done without hassles. Street clothes do not make for a good IDPA outfit not just because of the competition but because of the environment that they are held in.

At least I get to shoot on the draw there.
Jim

pete2 · July 30, 2014, 05:55 PM

I shoot IDPA and I really enjoy it but it is a game. Very seldom do we shoot with a real carry gun( read 642 rev. or LC9 ), IDPA calls them BUG guns. The IDPA game was built around full size service guns, could it be because a certain party specializes in 1911 guns?
It is really a fun game but it is a game. Too many rules to be anything else, it has to have rules for safety and for scoring. Some of the rules make no sense what so ever, must stand still while reloading, reload with retention/whatever else they call it, don't leave a live round on the ground and a few other rules that have nothing to do with real defensive shooting. They only add 5 seconds for shooting a no shoot. Really strange.
Don't confuse IDPA with self defense. It should improve your gun handling skills, that's about all it'll do. It is fun and you'll meet some great people.

July 13, 2014, 06:27 PM	#28
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,307	I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but the actual draw in the lions share of defense related shootings, has no bearing. There were a few studies some years back, but I can not find them now, but the number was in the high 90% range that the draw was insignificant when CCW holders were queried about their tactics and facts related to a shooting they were involved in. I have had 4 students shoot their firearms in self defense, draw speed was a factor in none of them, and all were cleared. If you have not been taught diversionary tactics and other tactics related to close quarters survival, especially against an adversary that already has a gun out, you have some work to do. So too do your avoidance and awareness tactics for failing to get out of harms way. Sure, there are ambushes, but personal safety and awareness are much bigger factors than your draw. Tactics, personal safety and situation awareness are likely the most neglected aspects of SD and CCW training. The gun media and TV shows, for the most part have us believe that every solution is a "gun" solution, because that sells products, but it is grossly misleading. If you combine competition for stress innoculation, weapon handling, shooting skills, and separate that from actual tactics, personal safety and situation awareness, there should be little to no chance of getting them mixed up. Even though driving in the snow takes a bit more skill, I still drive in the summer. Note: The "you" is generic, not aimed at the OP or anyone else. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

July 18, 2014, 04:43 PM	#33
7Cedars Member Join Date: June 18, 2014 Location: Elk Grove, CA Posts: 28	I have shot IDPA a few times and really enjoyed it. I knew going into it that I wasn't going to win any matches and I certainly didn't consider it a game. It is a great use of the skills I currently have while adding a bit of pressure, and if u think there isn't much pressure at an IDPA match, try going to your first one. That pressure while shooting I feel has made me a more competent firearms handler. Practicing target acquisition while moving, shooting etc....is fantastic. Learning proper tactical priority and doing that repeatedly is invaluable in my opinion. And if you carry concealed is that the goal we should all have? I used my XD40 sub compact for the shoot. Certainly not an ideal gun for the competition, but that is what I carry most of the time when I carry concealed, so why not? And yes I did get a few looks from some of the more serious competitors, but I was there for me, not them. And I ALWAYS had fun and learned something new. I would be doing it a lot more if I could get reloading supplies easier. __________________ “The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” ― Alexis de Tocqueville

July 30, 2014, 01:22 AM	#34
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,302	change Why not a wardrobe change?

July 13, 2014, 04:59 PM	#27
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Puts stress on safety, too.

July 14, 2014, 05:20 PM	#30
1-DAB Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2010 Location: Santa Fe, NM Posts: 474	well said MarkCO. i have a local, vicious dog, so now that i know he's coming (he barks and makes noise), i have the chance to draw way before he's chomping at my knees. warning shots into the ground seemed to have worked so far.

July 16, 2014, 06:32 PM	#31
SG29736 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Location: Northern Ca. Posts: 107	"Is there a IDPA style 'competition' that doesn't involve race guns, race holsters, and soft-loads? I'm competitive and don't like coming in last against those folks with their fancy equipment who want to win the match. It would be great if there were folks with their compact pistols and IWB holsters... " IDPA shooters not using compact pistols and IWB holster in a competition is a far cry from using race guns and holsters. There is minimum power factors in the different divisions also. While they aren't full power defensive loads they aren't the soft loads allowed in other shooting competitions. Mark

July 17, 2014, 12:11 PM	#32
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Under the new (now almost a year old) IDPA rules, clubs may establish their own divisions under the Not For Competition rule. Someone suggested reducing the standard IDPA box by one inch in both dimensions, to limit a division to compact guns, without having to enforce the capacity limits and no-reloads of BUG. A club could require IWB, or some other standard to help ensure "real carry holsters", etc. Of course, the power floors for the existing divisions are "soft" only if you are using a full-sized gun; shoot some factory .45 hardball, or white box 9mm through a 3" gun, and it might be pretty darn close to the lower limit.

July 30, 2014, 05:55 PM	#38
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	I shoot IDPA and I really enjoy it but it is a game. Very seldom do we shoot with a real carry gun( read 642 rev. or LC9 ), IDPA calls them BUG guns. The IDPA game was built around full size service guns, could it be because a certain party specializes in 1911 guns? It is really a fun game but it is a game. Too many rules to be anything else, it has to have rules for safety and for scoring. Some of the rules make no sense what so ever, must stand still while reloading, reload with retention/whatever else they call it, don't leave a live round on the ground and a few other rules that have nothing to do with real defensive shooting. They only add 5 seconds for shooting a no shoot. Really strange. Don't confuse IDPA with self defense. It should improve your gun handling skills, that's about all it'll do. It is fun and you'll meet some great people.