Hard to lift bolt 98 Mauser

[will99]

Bolt locks up very tight and is even harder to unlock. This is true even with a freshly trimmed, empty, unprimed cartridge. I have lightly greased the lugs with little or no relief. Chamber is clean and cartridge slides in easily. Is there a spring inside the bolt? I have never dismantled a bolt so know little about it. Seems the spring, if there is one, might be jammed up with gunk.

[natman]

How is it with no cartridge? Tight on closing, opening or both?

[4V50 Gary]

If your bolt works easily when it is unloaded, I suspect your gun was not headspaced properly and if so, the chamber needs a wee bit more reaming.

[will99]

With no cartridge it works smoothly. Very different than with a shell.

[4V50 Gary]

Headspace it is. It needs to go to a gunsmith for some chamber reaming.

[will99]

So bolt disassembly and cleaning not necessary even though it's never been done while I owned the gun and fired maybe 1000 rounds?

[4V50 Gary]

You should have mentioned that to begin with

[natman]

So bolt disassembly and cleaning not necessary even though it's never been done while I owned the gun and fired maybe 1000 rounds?

There's some Olympic class jumping to conclusions going on here.

There is a world of difference between determining that your bolt tightness is caused by headspace and deciding that your bolt couldn't stand a cleaning.

Disassembly of a Mauser bolt is pretty easy. Check this out. if you don't like that video do a youtube search on "Mauser Bolt Disassembly" and there are lots more.

[will99]

I may have solved my problem. In attempting to save stress on my brass I used a new technique that was suggested. I tried backing the decapper/resizer die off to neck size the shells without buying a neck sizing die. Because of this the shoulder didn't set back at all. I just ran all the sticky shells through again this time with the die screwed down to touch the top of the ram. These empties cycle much smoother now. Thank you all for your comments.

[James K]

I was about to ask how it worked with factory ammo, but I think the problem has been solved.

Jim

[salvadore]

My 24/47 bolt is a little tough to operate, much more so with S and B factory rounds. It's a cast bullet gun and I just shot up my last 30rds of factory so I could use the brass. May have to use neck sizing thingy like Will did. I don't remember it being that sticky when shooting cast at 1550fps. Have to pay attention next time I go to the range.

[F. Guffey]

Bolt locks up very tight and is even harder to unlock. This is true even with a freshly trimmed, empty, unprimed cartridge. I have lightly greased the lugs with little or no relief. Chamber is clean and cartridge slides in easily. Is there a spring inside the bolt? I have never dismantled a bolt so know little about it. Seems the spring, if there is one, might be jammed up with gunk.

You closed the bolt on a case and the bolt closed with ease. Then you opened the bolt and the bolt opened with difficulty? You did not pull the trigger meaning the bolt is cock on open but when you opened the bolt the bolt was cocked.

Then you lubed the lugs, with cock on open the cam on the rear of the bolt is the part of the bolt that needs lube.

Finally you solved the problem, the case was not sized, you sized the case 'more', question: If the case chambered with ease with no resistance to bolt closing what caused the bolt to be difficult to open?

The 98 type rifle is a control feed receiver, meaning the case is feed from the magazine. A 98 can lock up when rounds are chambered like push feed.

F. Guffey

Practice: pull the trigger to de-cock, pull the handle up to cock then close the bolt and then open it again.

[Elkins45]

I may have solved my problem. In attempting to save stress on my brass I used a new technique that was suggested. I tried backing the decapper/resizer die off to neck size the shells without buying a neck sizing die. Because of this the shoulder didn't set back at all. I just ran all the sticky shells through again this time with the die screwed down to touch the top of the ram. These empties cycle much smoother now. Thank you all for your comments.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. The idea of minimizing stress on your cases is a good one, you just adjusted the die a bit too long. Somewhere between the shellholder touching the die and the point where the bolt won't close is the sweet spot where you just barely touch the shoulder inside the die and maximize case life. You just need to do a bit more experimenting to find the ideal setting.

[F. Guffey]

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. The idea of minimizing stress on your cases is a good one, you just adjusted the die a bit too long. Somewhere between the shellholder touching the die and the point where the bolt won't close is the sweet spot where you just barely touch the shoulder inside the die and maximize case life. You just need to do a bit more experimenting to find the ideal setting.

I am convinced reloaders should spend time getting familiar with their press, I am leaning toward a 'lot of time'. If the OP did not know his case was not sized he should have know 'by how much' before he lowered the ram. I use the companion tool to the press. the feeler gage.

You just need to do a bit more experimenting to find the ideal setting.

I know the setting before I start, but in the big inning I became familiar with my presses. The first lesson had to do with the case, some cases whipped my press, other times my press whipped the cases.

F. Guffey

[grumbles]

If you wish to avoid stress on your brass, try the LEE© collet dies. They size only the case neck by using a precision mandrel and do not touch the case shoulder. I believe also that when using a conventional Full Length die and adjusting so as to not touch the shoulder it may be possible to stretch the shoulder area of the case when withdrawing the sizing expander plug, thereby creating a headspce issue on the BRASS. I've never had a problem with the collet dies in any of my rifles. including a 280AI (for which I use a 280 rem collet die, headspace dimension the same so it works - I did talk to a tech @ LEE before I bought/used one)

Just remember that with any necksize die (any manufacturer) the case is fire formed to fit only the chamber of the rifle in which it was fired. No sharing cartridges.

Best thing I can say is anyone doing reloading should do their homework (thoroughly). More than one "reloader" I've helped with their problems had NO IDEA of headspace/case inspection/magnum vs standard primer issues. Many of these persons used the LEE© Modern Reloading Book as their only reference and always started out with "NOT TO EXCEED LOAD". I'm not disparaging the book from LEE©, but at least they should have thoroughly read the introduction.

[Bart B.]

When using a full length sizing die on bottleneck cases, if the die doesn't push the case shoulder back a tiny bit, the case shoulder moves further forward than where it was when sizing. The case body still gets sized down and that brass has to go somewhere; it moves forward taking the shoulder with it. That causes the bolt to bind when closing it; if you can close it at all.

The term for what you did is called "partial full length sizing." a popular thing to do for a lot of reloaders thinking it'll only size the case neck. But when the bolt binds on such resized cases, its head doesn't lock up into battery exactly the same for each shot. And that can cause accuracy problems.

I suggest setting the die in the press so the fired case shoulder's set back 1 to 2 thousandths. That'll give excellent accuracy and long case life in bolt guns. If fired case shoulders are set back more, case life shortens and accuracy starts to fall off.

[grumbles]

Bart B.
Good post, but can you explain how to measure that 1 or 2 thousandth bump. I can and do measure it, but as an ex machinist/engineer I have specialised tools. Not everyone has the tools and experience to do this, as I do. and I know no quick and dirty methods.

[Bart B.]

grumbles (and others), for quick and dirty (plus pretty darned precise, too) check out post 35 in:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ighlight=nylon

Depending on the cartridge caliber, any bushing whose inner diameter fits on a case shoulder can be used. Nylon, steel, brass, aluminum; they all work.

Then look at post 29 in:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...post+37&page=2

to see what a die looks like with its lock ring labeled in .002" steps.

Note it's not the actual head to shoulder distance (often called case headspace) that matters. It's the difference between fired case and resized case headspace that matters. If you choose to, spend more money on an RCBS Precision Mic or Hornady LNL gauge for your cartridges.

[F. Guffey]

Good post, but can you explain how to measure that 1 or 2 thousandth bump. I can and do measure it, but as an ex machinist/engineer I have specialized tools. Not everyone has the tools and experience to do this, as I do. and I know no quick and dirty methods.

Grumbler, if you have more tools than I have, you have too many tools. The die and press have threads, threads make the die adjustable to the shell holder. I am the fan of standards and transfers, my best standard/transfer is the feeler gage, advantage, the feeler is also a verifying tool. I have three different ways to measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face. After determining the length of the chamber I transfer the measurement to the die. press and shell holder.

F. Guffey

[Bart B.]

Guffey, if you have three different ways to measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face then after determining the length of the chamber you transfer the measurement to the die, press and shell holder, please tell the OP how to help him. Otherwise, you're telling him how much you know and don't want to share it with him because it's your secret and not for others to know.

Who the heck are you to tell anyone they've got too many tools? Are you the Tool Policeman?

[F. Guffey]

I have specialized tools. Not everyone has the tools and experience to do this

Bart B., he has specialized tools, he has experience, and makes it a point not everyone has the tools and experience. It is not my job to convince him the expensive tools are not necessary, nice but not necessary.

Machinist/engineer, I am not the one that claims all a reloader has to do is bump the shoulder, I am the one that can not bump the shoulder, I have to have case body support, I am the one that has a bump press, I am the one with presses that do not bump, I have instructions for bump presses and non bump presses.

I am the one that does not size a case, measure and size again then measure again etc. to get .001" 'bump'? I go straight to adjusting the die to the shell holder. I am not a fire former, I form first then fire.

Specialized tools, I look for good in every tool, I do not spend time finding fault. I have Wilson case gages, I improve the accuracy of the case gage with a straight edge and feeler gages. Chamber gages, I have barrels, new. take off and used. If I need a chamber gage I have a choice. I can cut the chamber off of a barrel, I think nothing of purchasing barrels that have everything wrong with them, cheap for a chamber gage I do not have.

Specialized and expensive and experience, I can do it with a $2,400 tool, I can measure down to .000001" with an electronic tool. I can do it with a $11.00 tool. the $11.00 tool does not require years of experience, the $11.00 tool is a good companion tool to the press.

I see you and grumbles hitting it off and finding common ground.

F. Guffey