What is the oldest you would consider self defense ammo still reliable? - Page 2

Fishbed77 · June 12, 2019, 04:37 PM

Maybe not a direct comparison, but I've shot plenty of Greek HXP 30-06 M2 Ball through my Garand that was well over 40 years old, and it has never failed to go bang.

Who knows what kind of climate it was stored in? Some ammo cans have shown quite a bit of corrosion, but the ammo still works great. I would speculate than any quality defensive pistol ammo produced in the last 40 years would hold up just as well.

briandg · June 13, 2019, 04:15 PM

I tend to rotate the things out routinely as I clean or work on my various guns. I know that at least one of my glock magazines has 30 years old silvertips in it. I've used up all of the handloaded ammo that I had created for SD purposes and only use factory now.

Maybe I'm the crazy one here, but I test the guns with the chosen product and then buy a box or two. I don't need 300 top quality hollow points sitting in the cabinet. I need enough to fill three speed loaders and my revolvers. Also enough to hold three magazines and a few leftovers for my semiautos.

Anything that is sitting in the cabinet is useless. I'll replace the stuff someday by selling all of my forty year old ammo to some sucker at a gun show. Or maybe not.

Jim Watson · June 13, 2019, 04:48 PM

I am comfortable in the single digits. Yes, most ammo will keep longer but a safety margin on safety equipment is safer.

I shot a lot of .38s rotated out of service at the Atlanta federal prison after only three years.

gwpercle · June 13, 2019, 05:56 PM

I've got several boxes of WWII military surplus ammo . 45 acp and 9 mm Luger . I bought the 45 acp ammo in early 1970's , dated 1943 . My Dad bought the 9mm in 1961 along with a WWII Walther P 38 , mail ordered it all from Klein's . Ammo was repackaged from Klein's but is German mfg, not sure of year but must be WWII era .

It had been kept inside a climate controlled house , Dad and I have shot some of the ammo over the years. I reload so we have kept several boxes for "historical " reasons.

At Dad's house I found an opened half boxes of each , so being already opened I took them to the range . Using dad's P38 and my AMT Hardballer (1911) I shot up every round...100% functioning , hit the target , no squibs or weak loads.

That's 75 years of proper storage... I keep the AMT 45 acp close at hand in the house ,
and I just noticed , it's loaded with those 1943 hardball rounds ... I'm not worried .
Gary

briandg · June 13, 2019, 10:52 PM

But the question is...

How long would you store the ammunition that you plan on using to save your life?

Fishbed77 · June 14, 2019, 10:22 AM

Quote:

But the question is...

How long would you store the ammunition that you plan on using to save your life?

I don't plan on any ammunition saving my life.

I live my life to the fullest while trying to avoid unnecessarily dangerous situations, but try to be prepared if one interjects.

Quality ammo doesn't know if it is supposed to save your life or not, and physics and entropy treat it the same regardless. The take away is that it lasts a long time with good storage (and sometimes with not-so-good storage).

If you carry it in your carry firearm for a long time and it's exposed to harsh conditions, climates, or corrosive elements, I can understand replacing it at some point.

If it's just sitting in a box in your house for years... well, it's probably just fine and may outlive you.

.

T. O'Heir · June 14, 2019, 12:11 PM

Best ammo I've ever fired was CF Issue, DA .303 Ball that was 44 years old at the time. Age is irrelevant if it's stored properly.
The quality of the ammunition has nothing to do with it either. It's only about how it's been stored.

pete2 · June 15, 2019, 08:58 AM

I have some 9MM that I know is over 20 years old, still fires every time.

briandg · June 15, 2019, 04:46 PM

Tom Servo said this:

Quote:

But to be honest, that's probably just subtle superstition on my part.

That is the most solid thing that has been said in my presence in decades. People haven't a clue about 99.999999% of what goes on around them, yet still will readily make up an opinion based on what is basically a hunch. A person who doesn't like technology will fear the supercollider with no actual reason to. Some people will hate the .270 but worship at the altar of the 30-06. Maybe just because their granddaddy shot a big bull elk with one.

What Tom said was that we all make uninformed decisions on trivial issues every day just based on extremely limited information or experience, maybe on nothing but a factoid written on the internet. Lots of times that won't matter, maybe a person thinks that coffee has to be dumped after an hour.

If a person can accept and admit that they really have no basis for a belief other than a personal feeling, that's great. And in his case, he pointed out that his unnecessarily strict policy is based on a concern that may be unnecessary.

Rob228 · June 16, 2019, 12:30 AM

I know deep down inside that well made ammo will still go boom after a long time. I've never carried anything ammo over a year old.

JJ45 · June 16, 2019, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by briandg

Tom Servo said this:

That is the most solid thing that has been said in my presence in decades. People haven't a clue about 99.999999% of what goes on around them, yet still will readily make up an opinion based on what is basically a hunch. A person who doesn't like technology will fear the supercollider with no actual reason to. Some people will hate the .270 but worship at the altar of the 30-06. Maybe just because their granddaddy shot a big bull elk with one.

What Tom said was that we all make uninformed decisions on trivial issues every day just based on extremely limited information or experience, maybe on nothing but a factoid written on the internet. Lots of times that won't matter, maybe a person thinks that coffee has to be dumped after an hour.

If a person can accept and admit that they really have no basis for a belief other than a personal feeling, that's great. And in his case, he pointed out that his unnecessarily strict policy is based on a concern that may be unnecessary.

Some good points but most of the time people believe what they want to believe....politicians are well aware of this phenomenon....however it is difficult to fault a person if his beliefs are based on his real life experiences.

DukeConnor · June 16, 2019, 04:22 PM

In 1984 we shot powder bags manufactured for ww1. It was so bad we were duct taping the bags together because they were falling apart. Every bag ignited but we were endlessly adjusting and couldn't hit anythin accurately.

We were shooting M110's at the time.

Ibmikey · June 16, 2019, 08:22 PM

I just found a bandoleer and open box full of leftovers from a case of 303 imported from some country that writes a lot of Arabic crap on the outside of the case. Ammo was 45 years old when it hit the shed that sees sub freezing weather in the winter and 100 degrees a few days in the summer, that was 15 years ago. A sampling of the open box found each made a big boom when asked to do so.

kenny53 · June 16, 2019, 11:00 PM

I voted 30 + years. I have shot 45 acp from WWII and it shot just fine. I found some 12ga I left in the garage for 10-15 years summer 100+, winter in the teens. It shot fine.

photographix · June 17, 2019, 01:05 AM

I have no doubt that 30+ year old ammo will fire being stored under unknown conditions, and have proven it with a couple rounds that were purchased around 1983 or so in my grandpa's Winchester lever action. I still have more in the box, and will try it in a few years to see what happens. However....

...when it comes to self-defense ammo, I'm not going to go with anything older than 6 months in my carry gun. Six months covers a minimum of 2 season changes, and depending on where you live, can have widely varying levels of humidity.

Plus, carrying SD ammo in your gun on your hip subjects the it to even more temperature and humidity changes, particularly if you live in a cold winter climate. You go from your home, to your car, to the store or whatever, and then reverse the process on the way home. In one trip, you have potentially subjected your ammo to several rapid environmental changes in fairly short span of time.

Would quality SD ammo survive this process repeatedly? Almost certainly. I would wager that even cheap range rounds would be fine, too.

I'm probably being a little anal about it, but I swap out my SD ammo every few months. In the grand scheme of things, a box or two of primo fresh SD ammo twice a year is worth the peace of mind to me.

zeke · June 17, 2019, 05:58 AM

I wouldn't "consider" or rely on an age factor. Maybe just test it? Course then that might relate to how many of the rounds you have. Properly stored rounds might last a long time.

Bartholomew Roberts · June 18, 2019, 06:40 PM

I think it is worth distinguishing between ammo carried in a magazine or pistol and stored ammo. I like to buy ammo in bulk. I’ll rotate my carry ammo every six months or so just to keep setback or primer sensitivity from being an issue due to clearing and reloading. On magazines that get carried or stored outside climate control, I’ll swap every year or two.

On ammo that’s been stored properly, my main concern with using twenty year old defensive ammo is that bullet design has progressed quite a bit over that time. I think I’ve still got a box of Remington Golden Sabers from pre-1992.

jolly roger · June 19, 2019, 04:15 AM

My wife's Grandfather passed in 1988. He had a Colt 25 Vest Pocket with papers and 2 mags of OLD 25ACP ammo that I would say was made in the 30s...shot just fine. Gun itself made in 1928. I have shot military 45 and 30-06 ball ammo made in 1942 no issues. This was around oh...2000 I believe

mr bolo · June 19, 2019, 03:51 PM

Quote:

I just found a bandoleer and open box full of leftovers from a case of 303 imported from some country that writes a lot of Arabic crap on the outside of the case. Ammo was 45 years old when it hit the shed that sees sub freezing weather in the winter and 100 degrees a few days in the summer, that was 15 years ago. A sampling of the open box found each made a big boom when asked to do so.

I would guess it's probably corrosive? I had a bag of Egyptian 8mm Mauser dated 1950's and it was highly corrosive, checked my Mauser 98K a couple weeks later and the bore and cleaning rod was covered in orange rust

Now I always run hot water and use soap to clean it, and also the cleaning rod & bore brush after use, to neutralize the corrosive salts.

MR.G · July 4, 2019, 10:31 PM

I have not had any problems with center fire ammunition that has been stored for over ten years in ammo cans and good environment. I have some in my self defense guns right now. Have some rimfire .22 lr. and magnum that has been stored under the same conditions for over ten years, and not sure if I have the same confidence in them for self defense.

unclejack37 · August 2, 2019, 06:40 PM

I never saw an expiration date on a box of ammo. Would it look something like this.
Best used before xx/20xx

Drm50 · August 2, 2019, 07:28 PM

Being my life depended on it I would spring for a new box of SD ammo every year. Having said that there are to many varibles on original question. I have shot ammo that is over 100 yrs old and it functioned and shot fine. Maker, where was it stored before you got it. Just to many things to go wrong.

10-96 · August 3, 2019, 04:33 AM

Quote:

I would test a mag first, but after that I would trust 30+ year old ammo.

Not to pick on 5Whiskey, but here generates more questions... Folks opine fairly regularly about how they won't put full trust in a new carry firearm until X-number of rounds have gone through it, but how many of us are OK with only one clip of ammo that has a large number of candles on it's birthday cake?

Rob228 · August 3, 2019, 05:03 AM

I wouldn't use 30 year old ammo because the stuff made today has a bit more science behind it.

Don Fischer · August 3, 2019, 09:29 AM

Seem's to me it would depend on how bad you needed it at the time. If you were in a bad situation and someone handed you a 30 yr old round for your gun, bet you'd try it! I can't see where much ammo of any kind would get all that old though, be fired in practice before it got there!

View Poll Results: What is the oldest you would consider self defense ammo if stored in cool and dry conditions?
Less than 10 years	18	17.82%
From 10 years to 20 years	12	11.88%
From 20 years to 30 years	13	12.87%
More than 30 years	58	57.43%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

June 13, 2019, 04:15 PM	#27
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	I tend to rotate the things out routinely as I clean or work on my various guns. I know that at least one of my glock magazines has 30 years old silvertips in it. I've used up all of the handloaded ammo that I had created for SD purposes and only use factory now. Maybe I'm the crazy one here, but I test the guns with the chosen product and then buy a box or two. I don't need 300 top quality hollow points sitting in the cabinet. I need enough to fill three speed loaders and my revolvers. Also enough to hold three magazines and a few leftovers for my semiautos. Anything that is sitting in the cabinet is useless. I'll replace the stuff someday by selling all of my forty year old ammo to some sucker at a gun show. Or maybe not. __________________ None.

June 13, 2019, 05:56 PM	#29
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	I've got several boxes of WWII military surplus ammo . 45 acp and 9 mm Luger . I bought the 45 acp ammo in early 1970's , dated 1943 . My Dad bought the 9mm in 1961 along with a WWII Walther P 38 , mail ordered it all from Klein's . Ammo was repackaged from Klein's but is German mfg, not sure of year but must be WWII era . It had been kept inside a climate controlled house , Dad and I have shot some of the ammo over the years. I reload so we have kept several boxes for "historical " reasons. At Dad's house I found an opened half boxes of each , so being already opened I took them to the range . Using dad's P38 and my AMT Hardballer (1911) I shot up every round...100% functioning , hit the target , no squibs or weak loads. That's 75 years of proper storage... I keep the AMT 45 acp close at hand in the house , and I just noticed , it's loaded with those 1943 hardball rounds ... I'm not worried . Gary Last edited by gwpercle; June 13, 2019 at 06:02 PM.

June 13, 2019, 10:52 PM	#30
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	But the question is... How long would you store the ammunition that you plan on using to save your life? __________________ None.

June 14, 2019, 12:11 PM	#32
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Best ammo I've ever fired was CF Issue, DA .303 Ball that was 44 years old at the time. Age is irrelevant if it's stored properly. The quality of the ammunition has nothing to do with it either. It's only about how it's been stored. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 12, 2019, 04:37 PM	#26
Fishbed77 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Posts: 4,862	Maybe not a direct comparison, but I've shot plenty of Greek HXP 30-06 M2 Ball through my Garand that was well over 40 years old, and it has never failed to go bang. Who knows what kind of climate it was stored in? Some ammo cans have shown quite a bit of corrosion, but the ammo still works great. I would speculate than any quality defensive pistol ammo produced in the last 40 years would hold up just as well.

June 13, 2019, 04:48 PM	#28
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	I am comfortable in the single digits. Yes, most ammo will keep longer but a safety margin on safety equipment is safer. I shot a lot of .38s rotated out of service at the Atlanta federal prison after only three years.

June 15, 2019, 08:58 AM	#33
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	I have some 9MM that I know is over 20 years old, still fires every time.

June 16, 2019, 12:30 AM	#35
Rob228 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Hampstead NC Posts: 1,450	I know deep down inside that well made ammo will still go boom after a long time. I've never carried anything ammo over a year old.

June 16, 2019, 04:22 PM	#37
DukeConnor Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2016 Posts: 224	In 1984 we shot powder bags manufactured for ww1. It was so bad we were duct taping the bags together because they were falling apart. Every bag ignited but we were endlessly adjusting and couldn't hit anythin accurately. We were shooting M110's at the time.

June 16, 2019, 08:22 PM	#38
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	I just found a bandoleer and open box full of leftovers from a case of 303 imported from some country that writes a lot of Arabic crap on the outside of the case. Ammo was 45 years old when it hit the shed that sees sub freezing weather in the winter and 100 degrees a few days in the summer, that was 15 years ago. A sampling of the open box found each made a big boom when asked to do so.

June 16, 2019, 11:00 PM	#39
kenny53 Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2015 Location: My back yard Posts: 971	I voted 30 + years. I have shot 45 acp from WWII and it shot just fine. I found some 12ga I left in the garage for 10-15 years summer 100+, winter in the teens. It shot fine.

June 17, 2019, 01:05 AM	#40
photographix Member Join Date: January 6, 2013 Location: New Mexico Posts: 43	I have no doubt that 30+ year old ammo will fire being stored under unknown conditions, and have proven it with a couple rounds that were purchased around 1983 or so in my grandpa's Winchester lever action. I still have more in the box, and will try it in a few years to see what happens. However.... ...when it comes to self-defense ammo, I'm not going to go with anything older than 6 months in my carry gun. Six months covers a minimum of 2 season changes, and depending on where you live, can have widely varying levels of humidity. Plus, carrying SD ammo in your gun on your hip subjects the it to even more temperature and humidity changes, particularly if you live in a cold winter climate. You go from your home, to your car, to the store or whatever, and then reverse the process on the way home. In one trip, you have potentially subjected your ammo to several rapid environmental changes in fairly short span of time. Would quality SD ammo survive this process repeatedly? Almost certainly. I would wager that even cheap range rounds would be fine, too. I'm probably being a little anal about it, but I swap out my SD ammo every few months. In the grand scheme of things, a box or two of primo fresh SD ammo twice a year is worth the peace of mind to me.

June 17, 2019, 05:58 AM	#41
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,671	I wouldn't "consider" or rely on an age factor. Maybe just test it? Course then that might relate to how many of the rounds you have. Properly stored rounds might last a long time.

June 18, 2019, 06:40 PM	#42
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	I think it is worth distinguishing between ammo carried in a magazine or pistol and stored ammo. I like to buy ammo in bulk. I’ll rotate my carry ammo every six months or so just to keep setback or primer sensitivity from being an issue due to clearing and reloading. On magazines that get carried or stored outside climate control, I’ll swap every year or two. On ammo that’s been stored properly, my main concern with using twenty year old defensive ammo is that bullet design has progressed quite a bit over that time. I think I’ve still got a box of Remington Golden Sabers from pre-1992.

June 19, 2019, 04:15 AM	#43
jolly roger Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2011 Location: Virginia Posts: 179	My wife's Grandfather passed in 1988. He had a Colt 25 Vest Pocket with papers and 2 mags of OLD 25ACP ammo that I would say was made in the 30s...shot just fine. Gun itself made in 1928. I have shot military 45 and 30-06 ball ammo made in 1942 no issues. This was around oh...2000 I believe

July 4, 2019, 10:31 PM	#45
MR.G Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2001 Posts: 641	I have not had any problems with center fire ammunition that has been stored for over ten years in ammo cans and good environment. I have some in my self defense guns right now. Have some rimfire .22 lr. and magnum that has been stored under the same conditions for over ten years, and not sure if I have the same confidence in them for self defense.

August 2, 2019, 06:40 PM	#46
unclejack37 Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2014 Location: Delaware Posts: 121	I never saw an expiration date on a box of ammo. Would it look something like this. Best used before xx/20xx

August 2, 2019, 07:28 PM	#47
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,378	Being my life depended on it I would spring for a new box of SD ammo every year. Having said that there are to many varibles on original question. I have shot ammo that is over 100 yrs old and it functioned and shot fine. Maker, where was it stored before you got it. Just to many things to go wrong.

August 3, 2019, 05:03 AM	#49
Rob228 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Hampstead NC Posts: 1,450	I wouldn't use 30 year old ammo because the stuff made today has a bit more science behind it.

August 3, 2019, 09:29 AM	#50
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	Seem's to me it would depend on how bad you needed it at the time. If you were in a bad situation and someone handed you a 30 yr old round for your gun, bet you'd try it! I can't see where much ammo of any kind would get all that old though, be fired in practice before it got there!