Lead vs. Jacketed vs. Plated Discrepancies?

grojeanj · December 20, 2002, 10:01 AM

I was looking at load data provided for accurate arms for 357 magnum and am a bit confused. I'm new to reloading (okay, I haven't even started yet but I'm reading all I can). This forum has been absolutely great. Anyway, I was looking at charges for lead, jacketed, and plated 158 grain bullets. For one of their powders the max loads are as follows:

158 LSWC -- 13.5 gr
158 JHP -- 15.0 gr
158 plated FP -- 11.9 gr

There were similar differences with all powders listed. Why so much less with the plated bullet? I can understand that less powder would be needed with lead as they seem to be .001" larger diameter as a rule and softer than jacketed hence sealing the bore a bit more (perhaps). The only thing I noticed was that pressure data was in CUP for the lead/jacketed and in PSI for the plated. All loads were in the 91-98% of their respective max. Just found it a bit confusing.

Thanks for any replies to this post and thanks to all of TFL for helping a newbie really learn a lot about firearms in a short time (got my first less than a year ago).

Jim Watson · December 20, 2002, 10:38 AM

Well, if the plated is shown in PSI and the others in CUP, they were shot in different rigs; different barrels, different pressure gauges. That can account for a good part of it. For the rest, the plated bullet has the copper on steel coefficient of friction but is softer than jacketed and slugs up in the bore. Seems that might increase pressure. Otherwise, it's just one of those things.

Good to have somebody studying up in advance instead of jumping in at the deep end and trying to learn how to handload one question at a time.

JohnK · December 20, 2002, 12:16 PM

I've found that in general plated bullets just can't be driven as fast as jacketed or hard cast. The soft plating over a soft core just makes the bullet come apart when pushed to magnum velocities.

I would guess they list a lower powder charge based on the ability of the bullet to handle higher velocities, not because it generates more pressure than the other bullets.

Ben Shepherd · December 20, 2002, 12:18 PM

Most likely they are keeping the velocity under 1300 fps. Plated bullets have problems with jacket seperation above that speed.

tonyz · December 20, 2002, 03:30 PM

I know that ."West Coast Plated Bullets can be loaded to jacket bullet load data especcaly in pistols. I load the Precision cast bullets using the same data has jacketed.

If you want speed without leading then read on--------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Precision cast bullets
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What Our Customers are Saying:
Ted Bonnet
World Champion
IPSC Competitor "David Long produces a very high quality coated match bullet. Whatever it is coated with works extremely well. I have used Precision Bullets at many USPSA Area Championships, the European championships, the Space City Challenge, Gulf Coast Challenge and the recent Texas State Limited Championship. They have proven to be match winners. I have had excellent performance from the 180's, 200's and 220's. Each bullet weight has been exemplary, and I choose to use the 180's for the major matches because I like the impulse of the gun in operation using the lighter bullet. The price of the bullet is very competitive to lead bullets, is cheaper than jacketed bullets and they are consistently accurate and dependable. They work very well."
From: Michael Yanosky
E-mail: [email protected]
Date: February 23, 2000
Subject: Black Bullet 9mm 124RN Hi,

Took a minute to drop you a line. My order came several days ago and I started loading immediately. Next day, went to the pistol range and fired 150 rounds. That evening I was going to clean the pistol and "BOY" was I surprised, the barrel was as clean as when I started that day. No smoke, less recoil and muzzel lift. My score improved by 40%. "GREAT PRODUCT!" You are my bullet supplier from now on.

THANKS
MIKE from Penna.

Marisa Hogan
International IPSC Competitor " Every bullet should be stamped "D.V.C." and like in music, a real "virtuoso" for all the shooters."
From: Gary W. James
E-mail: [email protected]
Date: June 13, 2000
Subject: NICE PRODUCT Dear Precision Bullets,

I finally got around to shooting your 9mm bullets thru my Glock 19. Performance was excellent, clean up was a breeze and on the reloading end, I have never used a lead bullet (excluding fmj) that is this clean. I would now say you will have a permanent customer. I will be ordering more in the near future.

THANKS AGAIN
Gary W. James
Michigan

From: Curtis Smith
E-mail: [email protected]
Date: March 15, 2001
Subject: 454 casull / 225 gr bullets Do you remember selling 500 bullets to a person wanting to use your bullets in a .454 casull? Well thought i'd drop you a note and tell you how it went.

'lil gun did in fact reach 2000 FPS. 25 yard groups went into less than an inch.

The groundhog test was the most impressive, pretty much blowing him in two. The most damage i have seen from ANY bullet shot out of a revolver. If someone asks if they work on game as well as paper you can answer most certainly.

More rounds down range to come, I'll keep you posted.

curt

From: Mike Henry
E-mail: [email protected]
Date: June 02, 2001
Subject: Love em' Just about through with my first 500 box, good product, coating is durable, gun is cleaner, no smoke to speak of, lead is sized consistently, very high marks overall. And your prices are reasonable. I will place another order soon. Keep up the good work and thanks.

Mike Henry
Little Rock

From: Ron Lee
E-mail: [email protected]
Date: June 30, 2000
Subject: Great Product Dave,

I loaded up 100 rounds of the .45 200 gr SWC with W231 and went to the range today. I was very pleased with the results. I don't know why I would ever want to shoot a FMJ again. The accuracy was great and I had no more trouble cleaning after this than I would have with FMJ.

Thanks for your past EMail and the prompt delivery. Please let me know if you will be at any of the Tulsa, OK Gun Shows so I can save the postage.

Ron. . .

From: Ron DeFoor
E-mail: [email protected]
Date: March 21, 2001
Subject: Your Product I've loaded only about a hundred of the bullets I ordered, but I just couldn't wait to tell you how pleased I am. They are exactly as described. Neat, clean, slick and a pleasure to handle. They reload easily and feed in the gun perfectly.

I'm hooked and I'm going to tell anyone who will listen how pleased I am with the quality and the price of your product. I ordered only 2000 for my first time, but you can be assured that I will order more.

Thanks again

Ron DeFoor

From: John Ponti

December 20, 2002, 10:01 AM	#1
grojeanj Junior Member Join Date: April 3, 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 1	Lead vs. Jacketed vs. Plated Discrepancies? I was looking at load data provided for accurate arms for 357 magnum and am a bit confused. I'm new to reloading (okay, I haven't even started yet but I'm reading all I can). This forum has been absolutely great. Anyway, I was looking at charges for lead, jacketed, and plated 158 grain bullets. For one of their powders the max loads are as follows: 158 LSWC -- 13.5 gr 158 JHP -- 15.0 gr 158 plated FP -- 11.9 gr There were similar differences with all powders listed. Why so much less with the plated bullet? I can understand that less powder would be needed with lead as they seem to be .001" larger diameter as a rule and softer than jacketed hence sealing the bore a bit more (perhaps). The only thing I noticed was that pressure data was in CUP for the lead/jacketed and in PSI for the plated. All loads were in the 91-98% of their respective max. Just found it a bit confusing. Thanks for any replies to this post and thanks to all of TFL for helping a newbie really learn a lot about firearms in a short time (got my first less than a year ago).

December 20, 2002, 12:16 PM	#3
JohnK Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2001 Location: Duvall, Wa Posts: 552	I've found that in general plated bullets just can't be driven as fast as jacketed or hard cast. The soft plating over a soft core just makes the bullet come apart when pushed to magnum velocities. I would guess they list a lower powder charge based on the ability of the bullet to handle higher velocities, not because it generates more pressure than the other bullets. __________________ John http://www.handloads.com Molan Labe!

December 20, 2002, 12:18 PM	#4
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	Most likely they are keeping the velocity under 1300 fps. Plated bullets have problems with jacket seperation above that speed. __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor

December 20, 2002, 03:30 PM	#5
tonyz Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Location: Wa Posts: 922	I know that ."West Coast Plated Bullets can be loaded to jacket bullet load data especcaly in pistols. I load the Precision cast bullets using the same data has jacketed. If you want speed without leading then read on-------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Precision cast bullets ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What Our Customers are Saying: Ted Bonnet World Champion IPSC Competitor "David Long produces a very high quality coated match bullet. Whatever it is coated with works extremely well. I have used Precision Bullets at many USPSA Area Championships, the European championships, the Space City Challenge, Gulf Coast Challenge and the recent Texas State Limited Championship. They have proven to be match winners. I have had excellent performance from the 180's, 200's and 220's. Each bullet weight has been exemplary, and I choose to use the 180's for the major matches because I like the impulse of the gun in operation using the lighter bullet. The price of the bullet is very competitive to lead bullets, is cheaper than jacketed bullets and they are consistently accurate and dependable. They work very well." From: Michael Yanosky E-mail: [email protected] Date: February 23, 2000 Subject: Black Bullet 9mm 124RN Hi, Took a minute to drop you a line. My order came several days ago and I started loading immediately. Next day, went to the pistol range and fired 150 rounds. That evening I was going to clean the pistol and "BOY" was I surprised, the barrel was as clean as when I started that day. No smoke, less recoil and muzzel lift. My score improved by 40%. "GREAT PRODUCT!" You are my bullet supplier from now on. THANKS MIKE from Penna. Marisa Hogan International IPSC Competitor " Every bullet should be stamped "D.V.C." and like in music, a real "virtuoso" for all the shooters." From: Gary W. James E-mail: [email protected] Date: June 13, 2000 Subject: NICE PRODUCT Dear Precision Bullets, I finally got around to shooting your 9mm bullets thru my Glock 19. Performance was excellent, clean up was a breeze and on the reloading end, I have never used a lead bullet (excluding fmj) that is this clean. I would now say you will have a permanent customer. I will be ordering more in the near future. THANKS AGAIN Gary W. James Michigan From: Curtis Smith E-mail: [email protected] Date: March 15, 2001 Subject: 454 casull / 225 gr bullets Do you remember selling 500 bullets to a person wanting to use your bullets in a .454 casull? Well thought i'd drop you a note and tell you how it went. 'lil gun did in fact reach 2000 FPS. 25 yard groups went into less than an inch. The groundhog test was the most impressive, pretty much blowing him in two. The most damage i have seen from ANY bullet shot out of a revolver. If someone asks if they work on game as well as paper you can answer most certainly. More rounds down range to come, I'll keep you posted. curt From: Mike Henry E-mail: [email protected] Date: June 02, 2001 Subject: Love em' Just about through with my first 500 box, good product, coating is durable, gun is cleaner, no smoke to speak of, lead is sized consistently, very high marks overall. And your prices are reasonable. I will place another order soon. Keep up the good work and thanks. Mike Henry Little Rock From: Ron Lee E-mail: [email protected] Date: June 30, 2000 Subject: Great Product Dave, I loaded up 100 rounds of the .45 200 gr SWC with W231 and went to the range today. I was very pleased with the results. I don't know why I would ever want to shoot a FMJ again. The accuracy was great and I had no more trouble cleaning after this than I would have with FMJ. Thanks for your past EMail and the prompt delivery. Please let me know if you will be at any of the Tulsa, OK Gun Shows so I can save the postage. Ron. . . From: Ron DeFoor E-mail: [email protected] Date: March 21, 2001 Subject: Your Product I've loaded only about a hundred of the bullets I ordered, but I just couldn't wait to tell you how pleased I am. They are exactly as described. Neat, clean, slick and a pleasure to handle. They reload easily and feed in the gun perfectly. I'm hooked and I'm going to tell anyone who will listen how pleased I am with the quality and the price of your product. I ordered only 2000 for my first time, but you can be assured that I will order more. Thanks again Ron DeFoor From: John Ponti __________________ Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained

December 20, 2002, 10:38 AM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Well, if the plated is shown in PSI and the others in CUP, they were shot in different rigs; different barrels, different pressure gauges. That can account for a good part of it. For the rest, the plated bullet has the copper on steel coefficient of friction but is softer than jacketed and slugs up in the bore. Seems that might increase pressure. Otherwise, it's just one of those things. Good to have somebody studying up in advance instead of jumping in at the deep end and trying to learn how to handload one question at a time.