600 Yard Elk Rifle Advice

[Tackleberry1]

Lifelong Deer Hunter from SW Washington State here, I've got an Elk trip booked for Montana next fall and my partners are telling me that 300 to 600 yard oportunites are plentiful.

I currently hunt SW WA Elk with an 18" TC single shot 30-06 topped with a 3.5 x 10 Luepold VX3. I am confident taking up to 300 yard shots with this setup but for Montana, I'm looking for a 600 yard gun that I can set up, with decent optics for about 1k and I won't mind swapping my Luepold to the new riffle.

I'm already set on a .300 Win Mag, 26" barrel, bolt action, Stainless/Composite and would prefer a detachable box magazine for this new rifle and I'd like to keep the weight down to the 8 to 9 lbs range with scope.

Yesterday I handled the Weatherby Vanguard but discovered that I can't get it in a 26" barrel.

[taylorce1]

300 yards of less is usually the norm, 600 yards shots are not unheard of. You stated you booked a hunt so does that mean a guide service is going to be used? If you are using a guide service talk to the guides and get their recommendations. If you tell them you're not comfortable with a shot beyond a certain range then it's their job to get you into a comfortable range.

If you like the .30-06 stick with it, but is you are wanting something new a .300 WM or WSM wouldn't be a bad choice if you decide to try for a 600 yard elk. You could always just buy a new barrel for your TC if you want. Depending on what kind of shape you're in and ruggedness of the terrain rifle weight can become a real issue. I'd probably stick to something that comes in around 8 lbs or less with scope, full magazine, and sling.

[Tackleberry1]

Not interested in re barreling my TC... it's a nice compact brush gun but it's marginal trigger does not justify the investment when I can get a Remington 700 SPS 26" in 300 win Mag for $569.00, the only drawback to the 700 is that it does not come with a detach magazine.
Looking for rifle suggestions from owners with 26" 300 win Mag bolt actions.

[jmr40]

A lot depends on the terrain. There are places where a 100 yard shot is a long one and other places where a 200 yard shot would be very close. I know some guides suggest a rifle and shooter come with skills capable of 400 yard shots. They will get you closer if at all possible, but tell you straight up that 400 may be as close as you can get.

With good ammo your 30-06 is capable at 500 yards, if you are. Most any of the 300 magnums will stretch that to 600-700, but not many shooters can shoot that far. That is a personal decision you have to make based on how comfortable you are with your skills.

Buy the rifle you like, don't sweat 2" of barrel. There is no guarantee the 26" barrel will be faster than a 24" barrel. All guns are individuals and some 24" barrels will shoot faster than some 26" barrels. If you absolutely postiively must have 26" the Winchester EW comes with one.

Weight is important. This is my 300 WSM Winchester 70 Classic in a McMillan Edge stock. I'd gladly give up 100 fps to save the 1.5-2 lbs of extra weight of most 300 WM's.

[Mr. Hill]

Contact the guide before you buy a new rifle. Tell them what you own and ask their opinion about buying a mag rifle for 600 yard shots. They might tell you to stick with the 06 that you're familiar and proficient with, and I'll bet they can guide you closer than 600 yards.

600 yards is a long shot on an elk. If things go badly, it'll have a 600 yard head start to run into dark timber while you're trying to track it. Or you'll have to make a really long 2nd shot. Elk are tough. JMHO, but I'd stick with the .30-06 and pass on the mag.

Edited to add: buy a nice .300 mag. Check into a Browning Medallion. It has a "26 barrel and a rotary box mag, and browning makes a nice rifle. Sorry about my post above, you should get the rifle you want! Hope this helps. http:// https://www.budsgunshop.com/...+w26%22+Barrel

[T. O'Heir]

How often have you shot out to 600 yards?
A Hornady Superformance 165 grain bullet sighted in 2.3" high at 100 will drop 25.7" at 500. Same ammo with a 180, sighted in 3.0" high at 100 drops 25.0". Energy's ok, but you still have to be able to hit that 9" pie plate at 600. yards with and without any wind.
The Rem M700 comes in 26". The velocity loss in 2" really isn't enough to matter though. The rifle will be carried more than shot. The 700 'Long Range' weighs 9 pounds. An SPS(synthetic stock. Same rifle otherwise) weighs 7 5/8 pounds.
The detachable mag more important than the barrel length? Savage makes a 24" .300 Mag with a detachable mag. Their package rifles are coming with way better scopes these days too. Nikons or Weavers.
There is no need whatsoever for a magnum of any kind to kill elk. However, it's all about knowing the ballistics of the ammo. And where the thing hits at different distances.

[Jimro]

I'm already set on a .300 Win Mag, 26" barrel, bolt action, Stainless/Composite and would prefer a detachable box magazine for this new rifle and I'd like to keep the weight down to the 8 to 9 lbs range with scope.

Yesterday I handled the Weatherby Vanguard but discovered that I can't get it in a 26" barrel.

If you like the way the Vanguard handled, I recommend you get it. The difference between a 24 and 26" barrel in 300 Win Mag is not the difference between success and failure when hunting. You are looking at about 50 fps difference, which is next to nothing with a 180 to 200gr boat tail spitzer bullet in terms of impact difference. At least on an elk, they have a pretty big vitals zone.

If you really must have a 26" barrel, find a used Savage that you like, and order a prefit barrel in the material and contour you want.

Good hunting!

Jimro

[chuckscap]

Detachable magazines provide no benefit I know or when hunting. A floorplate is all you need. Spend money on good optics and unless you're already a competent 600 yard shot spend more money on ammo and practice.

[Jimro]

The benefit for the state of Washington is that it makes it much easier to make the rifle transport compliant. Just pop the magazine out, pull the round from the chamber, and no ticket when the game wardens pull you over for a rifle check.

Jimro

[old roper]

Well since your partners already hunted there I'd ask them about what to use since maybe they take elk at the longer yardage.

I hunt Co and it's no unheard of to get shot 600yds above timberline or below.

I like 26" barrel and no much on detachable magazine and I can't see DOW doing a check on loaded weapons in vehicle on a guided hunt.

I'm not shooting 300mag but shooting 338mag neck up to 30 cal and I use in on bull tag. and build on Rem action and like the existing magazine and I can seat bullets pass SAAMI Spedc OAL. You may find with factory you might be able to seat out.

I also have 30-06 with 26" Bartlein barrel and use it on bull tag lower down and depending on what season/unit I hunt. I kind of think it's like what your doing hunt elk with 30-06.

I also use 30-06 if I draw cow elk tag.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by Tackleberry1

Looking for rifle suggestions from owners with 26" 300 win Mag bolt actions.

I don't really recommend a lot of rifles. Go handle a lot and find the one you like the best. Features like 26" barrels and detachable magazines will sort themselves out.

[shootniron]

Just me, but I ain't leaving the house if they tell me that I am going to have to make 600 shot on an elk...they can let someone else go in my place. I expect them to earn their money and get me within a reasonable shooting distance.

[HiBC]

I had the whim to build a 600 yd elk rifle.By the time I finished it,I decided I (for myself) that shooting at elk at 600 yds had too many variables associated with it (for myself)
That does not mean the rifle did not come out good.It fit the bill superbly.
I,too,used a3.5 to 10 Leu VX 3 .Mine has a B+C reticle.
Mine was chambered 30-338. You have a 300 Win.I suspect you can duplicate my ballistics.

Try plugging these parameters into a ballistic program.

First,find the MOA values for the B+C reticle. I assume with the 40mm objective,your line of sight can be 1.5 high.

Go for a 300 yd zero at the center of the crosshair.

Launch a 200 gr Accubond at 2900 fps. Plug in about 8000 ft for elevation.

Now run the values to see how well the trajectory matches the B+C hashmarks. .

As I recall the 90 deg crosswind factor is 12 mph

See if it does not come in pretty close.

FWIW,I never used it,but Leupold did put a ranging feature on the vaiable X control ring to 600 yds. I forget,but some reticle feature used on a known size target will roughly range for you.Probably not precise enough for 600 yds,but still,a feature you can use.

[std7mag]

I would probably recommend something in the 308, 7mm-08, and keep ranges to 400 or less, ideally..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfd3...yHu4G&index=15

[HiBC]

std7mm,: As I said,for myself,I abandoned the 600 yd elk idea.I agree,a 30-06 level ctg and 300 yds or so is about right FOR ME..And,in truth,my age and physical condition make more elk hunting unlikely FOR ME.

But I was trying to do my best at answering the OP's question.

I did run some cursory numbers on the ballistic software on Hornady's page.

I will also agree with those who prefer precise wind and range measurements and target knob style scope corrections vs a reticle.(part of why I abandoned the 600 yd idea) Because variables are just a fact.

Having said that,for a 200 gr Accubond 30 cal bullet at 2900 fps,BC .588 at sea level,hunting at 8000 ft,35 deg f, 1.5 sight height,barometer and humidity default,sight in 300 yds

at 400 yds,suggested come up 2.3 MOA. Reticle value,2.19 MOA
at 500 yds,recommended come up,4.8 MOA,reticle value,4.8 MOA
at 600 yd,recommended comeup 7.5 MOA,reticle value,7.82.
So,at 600 yds,error is 0.32 MOA,times 6 is about a 2 in error at 600 yds.

Its just one possible plan.

In my case,with this rifle,it verified right on at 500 yds.

I had the chance to take a monster huge once in a lifetime mule deer at a lasered 665 yds with it.

I passed it by.I had not verified and practiced at that range. It was late in the day,I was not going to take a chance on such a magnificent deer.Light was fading,not much time to sneaky-stalk closer.

I did take a smaller nice buck at 300yds. Instant kill,minimal meat loss.
I like the bullet

[FITASC]

How often have you shot out to 600 yards?

Exactly................

The benefit for the state of Washington is that it makes it much easier to make the rifle transport compliant. Just pop the magazine out, pull the round from the chamber, and no ticket when the game wardens pull you over for a rifle check.

It isn't that hard to cycle three rounds from the gun or open the floorplate either

Methinks you have some priorities that should be changed for more critical ones.

[Mobuck]

I killed an elk at close to 500 yards ONCE. Rifle was my well used Mauser action heavy barrel target rifle in 300 Win mag. I knew the rifle, cartridge, and trajectory very well at the time and a target the size of an elk's kill zone was a "gimme".
Would I recommend someone else trying this? NO WAY!!!!! Far too many variables for a absolute certain fatal hit.

[Jimro]

It isn't that hard to cycle three rounds from the gun or open the floorplate either

Methinks you have some priorities that should be changed for more critical ones.

You know you are totally correct, it isn't hard to work the action three times. But sometimes it's a pain if you fumble and the rounds drop into the snow/mud. You know, like in actual hunting conditions encountered in the Pacific Northwest, or Montana.

I'd actually like you to make a decent argument against a detachable box magazine, cause that might actually add to this conversation. I can't think of a single downside to having DBM on a hunting rifle for non-dangerous game, but that's just me.

Ah well, the OP will get what he gets, and whatever rifle he uses I hope he gets a nice elk.

Jimro

[jersurf101]

I'll make the case. You can lose it, lol, and then have a single shot if you dont have a spare. I prefer a blind magazine with a hinged floor plate over a dbm in a hunting rifle. We have lots of mud, rain and pocosin so conditions are comparable. A dbm is not a real breaker but I see the blind mag, as long as it has a hinged floor plate, as a better option.

[shootbrownelk]

Keep the 30.06 and get closer. I wouldn't want to pack around a 9 or 10 lb. rifle with a 26" barrel where I hunt Elk...in the timber. I wouldn't try a 600 yd shot on an Elk, too many variables like wind and animal movement, at 600 yds an animal taking a step when you shoot may turn a lung shot into a gut shot and a lost animal. And usually 600+ yd. shots are NOT the norm but the exception.

[shootniron]

jersurf101... I prefer a blind magazine with a hinged floor plate over a dbm in a hunting rifle.

There is no such thing as a blind magazine with a hinged floorplate.

Blind magazines have NO floorplate.

[RC20]

You don't need a 26 inch barrel, 24 will do fine.

You do want something with velocity, a 30-06 with a 24 will do that.
I would get that and stick with a caliber that works.

Heavier bullets for the long shots, 175 minimum, 200 better.

You do need to find out if you can shoot 600 and your limitation.

You are not going to be able to do it without some kind of a rest of supported position.

For one hunt (or even one a year) I would not get excited about stainless.

Savage or Axis has a lot of low cost rifles that work well.

Cabellas has a good variety as does Sportsman's Warehouse.

There should be some good sales.

Removable magazines can get an issue if you loose it.

Blind mags are better for hunting (IMNSO)

If you miss its either not going to know you shot or its moving and you will not be able to hit it let alone kill it at that range.

[HiBC]

Shootbrownelk:
You are right.I agree with you.

There ARE some people who are skilled enough and shoot enough to know when they can make a 600 yd shot with confidence.I know a few.
I make no claims for myself.We all have our good days.Shooting a steel dinger or a water jug,I'm not scared of 600 yds.For myself,on a critter,hunting conditions I don't measure up.
Its not about what size group you can shoot at a target at 1000 yds.Its about where the first round cold hits .Every time.Thats different than walking it in.

One thing that is important to realize,we can't walk in a gun shop and buy a 600 yd rifle.I can't make a 600 yd hunting rifle.
It takes a 600 yd rifleman.That takes time,skill,and knowledge.
At some point,time,skill and knowledge also teaches humility.We get to know enough to know what is less predictable.

As far as weight...That 30-338 I built began as a Husky 5000 action.Its a magnum small ring.Its a light receiver.I used a 25 in Lilja#3 barrel.Not a pencil,but not heavy.

The stock is a 20 OZ Hi-Tec Specialties.I did truly blind magazine it.No floor plate,just a Krag trigger guard.

I compromised a bit and used a stainless steel bedding compound,but its as light ,or lighter,than the common 30-06 hunting rifle.

[Jimro]

I'll make the case. You can lose it, lol, and then have a single shot if you dont have a spare. I prefer a blind magazine with a hinged floor plate over a dbm in a hunting rifle. We have lots of mud, rain and pocosin so conditions are comparable. A dbm is not a real breaker but I see the blind mag, as long as it has a hinged floor plate, as a better option.

Yeah...I've been to North Carolina a time or two...I'd say that coming out of that beaver swamp on a cloudless November night and forced to sit around for around for hours was one of the most miserable experiences of my military career. Soaked through completely from the name tapes on down.

Still, that ain't got nothing compared to a few of the black tail hunts through the alder thickets or tree farms when the sleet is on that you get in SW Washington out north of Highway 508, out by Toutle, or further west outside Pe Ell.

I personally don't have a problem with a bottom mag or a floor plate, and the OP already hunts with a single shot so it doesn't seem to bother him much.

Jimro

[Worc]

For 600 yards on an elk a .300 Mag of any name would be a great choice. They shoot flat and have plenty of energy. I use a .300 Wby mag for elk with great results. I'd go with a 26" barrel to get the cartridges full potential. the .300 WSM could go 24" or 25". That's the reason you're using a mag in the first place.

The .340 Wyb mag is also a very good long range elk cartridge.

Lots of good guns to chose from, just depends on your budget. I like models with a short bolt throw that slides smoothly.

Take a look at the likes of the Tikka T3, Browning X Bolt, Sako 85, Weatherby Mark IV, Sauer 100 or 101, Steyr CL or SM, Mauser M12.

Scope wise I like Zeiss quite a bit with Meopta also. I like the top power to be around 12 to 15 with 3 or 4 on the low side.

A good sling makes makes life much easier as does a good pack that carries your rifle. I use and like this one quite a bit. http://www.eberlestock.com/X3%20Lodrag%20Pack.htm