Biggest rip-off someone ever pulled on you selling a gun?

[xssv]

I was with my dad and a gunshow last fall and he really wanted a .204 ruger. Anyhow, found one and noticed that even though it was new, it had a decent sized ding on the stock. We asked if they'd knock off some money for the damage. The dealer says, "I'm already losing $100 on that gun and that's why I'm selling so cheap." Dad believes him and buys it.

We go to scheels to get ammo next and there the same gun is for less than he just paid. We told the guy at scheels the story, and he laughed and completely described the guy. Apparently he bought the gun from sheels the day before and got a huge discount and made a quick $75 on us. He was supposed to be a "reputable" dealer too.

[ballardw]

Pretty good example of why I pretty much browse the whole show before buying anything. If it isn't there when I go back then it really wasn't meant for me.

[xssv]

Yeah. After that, I just go on a friday and wait till sunday late to go back. They usually want to take as much cash home with them at the end of it all and will deal a hell of a lot more than on the friday aft. when the show starts.

[Wishoot]

I'm pretty obsessive about researching the snot out of any purchase. Big or small. Nor to I buy anything on impulse other than an occasional Snickers Bar at the checkout.

The only time I almost got taken was several years ago at Gander Mountain (go figure). I had a NIB Mossberg shotgun I won at a DU event and I wanted to trade it for a semi auto shotgun. The thing had never been shot. Gander offered me a whopping $50. I told the guy to stick his offer as far up his pooper as he could and walked.

[Skans]

I bought a Remington 1858 for $500 - thinking that it might be an original civil war 1858. When I examined it, it is more likely an original frame, possibly refinished and antiqued, with newer antiqued cylinder and some other newer after-market parts. All in all, turned out not to be what I hoped for. Still, probably worth $300+, who knows maybe more maybe less.

I did find a good use for it - use it for display to replace a nice authentic 1858 which I put back in the safe - looks identical from 2 feet!

[Stevie-Ray]

I'm pretty obsessive about researching the snot out of any purchase. Big or small. Nor to I buy anything on impulse other than an occasional Snickers Bar at the checkout.

That's me as well, for just about anything over 50 bucks, nowadays. Even the used guns, that I keep an eye out for, I know what they're worth and what I'm willing to pay. Impulse buys are never for more than 20 bucks or so.

[Brian Pfleuger]

It always makes me laugh when someone makes a voluntary purchase (especially on a non-necessity item) and then complains that they got ""ripped off".

There is no such thing as a "rip-off" in a Free Market society. You are not forced to make that purchase. That supplier is not your only option.

The buyers set the sale prices of all items. The sellers can only make suggestions. If no one is WILLING to pay the ASKING price, the item does not sell.

Buyers must WILLFULLY pay the price that is ASKED. If they do not, the sellers can not sell unless they lower the prices, something they will almost never do WILLINGLY but are forced by the buyers refusal to pay the ASKING price.

Paying more than the current market price for an item is a problem with one of two things. Either the buyer has failed to educate themselves on the item or they are in too much a a hurry and are WILLINGLY paying a premium to have the item immediately.

It's also amusing to me that a buyer who makes a purchase for far less than the market value of an item is always very pleased with themselves and will brag it up but never admits to "ripping off" the seller.

[Sevens]

I used to be that same way, obsessing about a possible gun purchase many months in advance, getting every POSSIBLE duck in a row and leaving no stone unturned and, well, add every other catchy phrase you can imagine.

At the time, in the situation, it was a fine route and not only was it the right move for myself and my constituents, but it definitely appeased the true inner "ME" that wanted to ensure I did my due diligence.

These days, I have evolved. I'm older, I tend to keep more information and ideas in my head about possible things I may run across and my financial position is different than it was, mostly because I scrapped all the other hobbies and it has freed up my ability to play it somewhat more loose with gun stuff.

It's put me in a position to be a player at almost ANY time I come across something that looks or feels right. Obviously, that opens me up to the occasional pitfall where I end up with a gun that doesn't deliver on my hopes & dreams when I buy it. However, I consider myself so far ahead of the game already that I can handle getting saddled with a couple purchase FAILURES and still look at the big picture and know that I've done extremely well.

I like the angle I'm currently working and it's also fun to be able to HONESTLY say that if I never got another firearm ever, the rest of time, I've got enough fantastic projects and phenomenal guns to really keep me interested and happy.

My addition to the thread is in next post -->

[Pahoo]

Biggest rip-off someone ever pulled on you selling a gun?

Regardless of who it happens to, I can understand why you feel that it was a rip-off. Now, I'm assuming that on many points of this transaction, the dealer openly lied to you and your father. If so, then the word needs to get out about him. "Most" dealers are very reputable and "all" that I deal with, are. It's rare but I too have been ripped off. Dealers who openly lie to customers, are only ripping themselves off, in the long run. They are known and they well marked. I have seen promoters bar them from their shows. ...

Be Safe !!!

[Sevens]

The ramble above was to set the scene for what must be my biggest purchase failure... it was an Erma Luger in .22LR that was likely built in the 1960s. I bought this at a large once-a-year outdoor gun show & redneck flea market/swap meet. At the time of this buy I was just pulling out of a large personal rut in life and chasing down things that I believed would make me happy and though that might sound really misguided and hollow, I was right and it's been a great couple of years since that time.

I went to this show as I had in the past but things were different on this day. In the couple years previous, I had little cash and ability to buy, I went mostly for fun and to snag accessories, but on this day, I had a fat roll and while I had no plans to be STUPID, I was going to consider the day a monumental failure if I left there without at least one handgun. As it turned out, I left with three.

I bought the Erma Luger in a buy with another pistol and though you could hash out the total price one way or the other, I ended up paying just about what each was marked/asked for, IIRC. When the dust had settled, I dropped $200 on that Erma and functionally, it was the worst handgun I have yet owned, bar none. I recall a couple of times when I managed to get four shots from it in a row without failure, but I could count that experience on one hand. While I'm no gunsmith, I did every trick I could think of to help this poor thing and it never improved even a bit.

There was the added bitter taste of the dealer who I still see in the local show circuit, the guy is simply not friendly in any manner and it annoys me to this day that he ended up with my money.

However, the other gun I snagged in that two-gun buy was a 6-inch Sig Trailside with blue laminate target grips. This gun was not in mint condition but functionally, it runs 100% and it has become my younger daughter's favorite handgun to shoot, mostly because of the terrific trigger on it. That is a pricey little pistol and not the easiest thing to find in any condition, so to snag it at $450, it's been worth every penny of that and it takes some of the sting out of the Erma Luger. I still get a peeved look on my face when I think of the dealer or see his ugly mug at a show.

As a sidebar, the other gun I snagged that day was a 1985-built Ruger Redhawk, .44 Mag, 7.5-inch barrel. It had all the evidence of a revolver that one guy bought new, shot a half a box through and didn't like the recoil, so it sat in a sock drawer for 25 years until I got it. Blued, with a touch of holster wear at the muzzle but appearing basically unused otherwise, I felt that it was worth the $600 I spent on it. Not a steal, but the right price and I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation with the gentleman selling it when I bought it. That buy felt right and the revolver has since given me nearly 500 rounds of fun shooting since that day.

[Machineguntony]

Agree with the above. You can't voluntarily and knowingly agree to pay a price based on someone's puffery, and then claim the seller ripped you off. That's known as making a bad deal.

A real rip off is when the item sold is not as promised.

I bought my only muzzleloader a while ago, and I can't hit the target. It is obviously the gun's fault. I have genuinely been ripped off. Also, it has a painfully slow rate of fire.

[jmr40]

Didn't get ripped off. Your dad paid a fair price for an as new gun. He later found out that the deal wasn't as good as he might have gotten. If he had never known about someone else buying it at a discount he would likely be happy today.

Years ago our local Walmart had a single 870 Wingmaster in the rack with an advertised price less than the 870 Express models. Salesman explained that they had lost the box, papers, extra choke tubes etc. and were selling just the gun as is at a discounted price. I bought the gun and was happy.

A week later a friend was telling me about several guys claiming to have bought Wingmasters at a crazy cheap price at Walmart. After checking things out it seems someone at Walmart didn't take down the sign, and unknowng clerks were selling new guns with the box, papers etc, at the same discounted price I paid.

I could have felt cheated, but didn't. Others were just luckier than I. One of the few times when being late meant you got the best deal.

[candr44]

There is no such thing as a "rip-off" in a Free Market society. You are not forced to make that purchase. That supplier is not your only option.

Complaining to others that the price they paid was higher than the price charged else where (ripped off, over charged, price gouged, or however you want to label it) is the demand side of the free market at work. I certainly appreciate someone telling me what business' charge less or more than others and learning form their experience. However, the responsibility for knowing what a fair to good price is and taking the time to find it does fall on the customer and not the business.

It's also amusing to me that a buyer who makes a purchase for far less than the market value of an item is always very pleased with themselves and will brag it up but never admits to "ripping off" the seller.

I have seen people in gun forums telling someone they ripped off a business because they got a once in a life time, extremely good deal. The poster even stated he asked the business if the price was correct and they insisted it was but he was still accused of ripping off the business. If the business was willing to sell at a extremely low price then they didn't get ripped off.

[Skans]

People can and do get ripped off. Misrepresenting something as untouched when it was actually reblued/refinished. Passing something off as "original" when its a fake or reproduction. These are two ways sellers rip off buyers who don't have the expertise to know the difference.

It's easy to say "the buyer should have done his research", but the fact is that it takes a crap-load of handling certain types of guns to know the difference between the genuine thing and a good fake. And, I guaranty you that if you are into collecting rare or antique guns, you will get "ripped off" probably more than once before you get good enough to spot a good fake. I consider it a right of passage.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by candr44

If the business was willing to sell at a extremely low price then they didn't get ripped off.

That's my whole point. Neither side of it is a "rip-off". It's a voluntary transaction. Yet, if we pay too much we claim "rip-off" but when we pay too little we're proud of ourselves.

Originally Posted by Skans

People can and do get ripped off.

Sure they can. Not everyone is an expert on every item. When a seller grossly misrepresents what they're selling, such as claiming antique when it's a reproduction or claiming something was owned by John Wayne and showing a faked certificate of authenticity, that's a rip-off.

When they have a plain-jane product with no claimed provenance and the buyer simply doesn't bother to whip out the iPhone and Google the thing... that's not a rip-off.

[Pahoo]

Here is a recent incident that might shed some light on this subject.
I have been very fortunate on buying M/L's and barrels, over the internet. We all know what a crap-shoot this can be. Well, I bid on a SideLock barrel and as usual, before I bid, I contacted the seller, inquiring about the condition of the bore and muzzle. Turned out that the seller, is a woman. She replied that the bore was "good" and she did not know what a muzzle was. I got the bid and when I got the barrel, it was totally fouled. Tried to clean it and gave up very soon. The seller accepted the return and refunded my money. I was only our the money for the return shipping. ....

Did I get ripped off?
Hardly, as I should have done more homework asked more questions and "assumed" she was informed. I took her at her word. Now, in my heart I feel that she really did not know what she was selling and she did refund my money. ...

Be Safe !!!

[trigger643]

A few years ago I sold a gun on an online auction site for low 5 figures. There was a non-firing 3 day inspection acceptance/return explicitly stated.

After being paid and sending the gun I received a call stating the gun was not as described and they were willing to complete the purchase provided I discount it 50%.

I politely declined and advised them to return the gun in the condition it was received for a full refund whereupon the buyer became verbally abusive and threatened legal action.

This was followed by an email restating the discounted offer and alternately threatening legal action.

Being the nice guy I am I responded stating if the gun was not satisfactory to return it in the condition it was received and I would refund the full purchase price.

Long story short... About a year and several thousands of dollars were spent on attorney fees recovering moneys frozen in my paypal account, countering the baseless legal claims which were filed against me, including a criminal complaint (mail fraud), which were actioned in the buyer's state of residence.

In the end it would have been cheaper to just take the hit at the outset.

[Sevens]

Wow, that's a real live nightmare. Was some kind of a counter suit a possibility, or would that have just been more of the same?

And since all of us are gun folks, I'll be the first to ask...
We talking a snazzy trap gun or old Colt revolver or what?

[trigger643]

Sevens,

I was advised against pursuing recovery as the additional expense did not increase the likelihood of recovery.

It was a special order pigeon grade model 21.

[Aguila Blanca]

I once bought a used pistol from a small, local gun shop that generally seems to have a decent reputation. And the owner is a born-again Christian on top of that, so I figured it was okay. He claimed he had sold the gun new to a customer who bought guns, rarely shot them, then traded them in when something else grabbed his attention. He claimed this pistol was unfired. It looked it.

Problem is, it was also a jam-o-matic, and I initially couldn't make it run. I knew someone in the factory, so he had me send it in. A few days later I got a phone call from the gunsmith in the repair department. He asked me where all the original parts were. I didn't know what he was talking about. He said that NONE of the internal fire control parts were originals. Bubba had been busy inside my new blaster.

The gunsmith replaced all the internal parts with new, factory parts and sent it back to me. It was about 90 percent better, but still not 100 percent reliable. I took it from that point, did some fine tuning, and now it runs perfectly. But I'll never go back to that shop.

Moral: Buy the gun, not the story.

[Sevens]

Well, maybe I'm just playing Devil's Advocate (and easier for me, not being the guy who ended up with the hassle) but if the Gun Shop owner seemed like a straight guy, had that reputation as such, tack on the Born-Again Christian, and the gun seemed unfired to you, and he had quick-swap experience with a customer who bought many but shot little...

Couldn't you possibly imagine a scenario where is it was not just you that got tricked by the altered gun, but the shop owner had gotten tricked as well?

I think we've all met gun store owners who would absolutely know less about a particular firearm (or more) than a hardcore hobbyist might.

[ranchito457]

About a year ago I was in a lGS in the area and saw a nice used beretta 92 with a price tag of $475.00 on it so I asked the clerk what was the best they could do on it-He told me to hold on while he called the owner,the owner told me he would be in the shop the following day and for me to pass by and see him,next day I walked in and started talking to him he handed me the same gun(I had noted serial number)with a new tag on it now for $550.00 and told me he would cut me a cash deal of $475.00+tax.I left there that day without even saying a word to him and have never and will never walk into that shop again..

[Sevens]

Yup. That nonsense would anger me enough to urge anyone/everyone that I know to avoid that place. That's obnoxious behavior and a royal time-waster.

As the shop owns the item, I fully back their right to price it at -ANY- number they wish and I truly believe that with a smile, but to waste a potential customer's time and energy for a snotty little exercise like that, I'd really want to place a flaming bag of poo on their "Welcome" mat. That tale just plain annoys me.

[SocialAnarchist]

About a year ago I was in a lGS in the area and saw a nice used beretta 92 with a price tag of $475.00 on it so I asked the clerk what was the best they could do on it-He told me to hold on while he called the owner,the owner told me he would be in the shop the following day and for me to pass by and see him,next day I walked in and started talking to him he handed me the same gun(I had noted serial number)with a new tag on it now for $550.00 and told me he would cut me a cash deal of $475.00+tax.I left there that day without even saying a word to him and have never and will never walk into that shop again..

Reminds me of the time I was in a local lawn mower/small engine shop. I wanted to buy 2 chainsaws, one with a 24 inch bar, and the other with a 14 inch bar for limbing. I asked the owner if he would consider a discount if I bought them both. Yeah, his price was $20 more than if I bought them individually...Needless to say I buy nothing but brand specific parts there now.

[Joe_Pike]

Biggest rip-off someone ever pulled on you selling a gun?

A gun shop sold me a Walther P22 once. Does that count?