Starting to notice a pattern when shooting rifles .

[Metal god]

I am starting to notice that I often shoot to the right of target .







These targets are from 3 different guns and 2 seperate trips to the range .
I have shot some targets with these same guns and was right on target but I seem to shoot a little right often

What am I doing wrong ?

[DPris]

Either adjust your sights or watch for barrel cant when you shoot.
Denis

[DaleA]

Very nice groups.

It could be you're 'muscling' the gun to the left. That is, your point of aim is to the right, you push the gun over to the left to be on target and then at the momemnt of release the gun goes back to the right.

Lots of target shooters when they get into position close their eyes and relax and then open them and see where the gun is pointing. If it's not on target they shift their position around until it is.

My $.02 worth of opinion and it doen't really explain why your groups are always on the right.

[Metal god]

Either adjust your sights

Because it is with 3 different guns I never thought it was the sights . one has a scope the other two are ARs . one with iron sights the other a red-dot . different rifles , different sights . Can it be my over all sight picture and the way I aim a rifle that is causing this problem . I was thinking it had something to do with trigger pull or flinch . IMO I do shoot nice groups so what ever it is , I do it consistantly . I would say when I'm really trying to be accurate . I shoot to the right 70 to 80 percent of the time .

EDIT I do not notice this problem when shooting my Savage MK2 FV 22LR

[coyota1]

Were these rifles zeroed? Did you sight them in and then did your groups shift to the right?

[DPris]

Try adjusting your sights/optics & see if you're still doing it.
Have you tried that?
Denis

[coyota1]

Often when you shoot to the right you are jerking the trigger, and are not aware of it.

[Metal god]

Yes I believe so . I have never really had any of my guns group dead center at 100+ yards .At shorter yardage , yes I,m dead on but not so much the farther I shoot . When looking at alot of other peoples groups they tend not to be right in the bull either . ( excluding pro's ) Most of the time I see a great group 1/2 MOA or so but it's not dead center . I thought this was normal-ish so when mine did the same I thought nothing of it . However I'm starting to see a pattern , everything hits to the right .

Maybe I should add this . I have been a shooter for many years and for the most part always hit what I was aiming at . In the last year or so I've been shooting and talking with guys that shoot for accuracy . Everything is MOA this or clover leaf that . Fast forward to now and if I'm not shooting MOA i'm not happy as apposed to five years ago if I hit a soda can at 100yds I was happy .

I do understand that the problem is me and not the guns .Really if it was not for me trying to shoot more accurately lately I may have never noticed this . just not sure if it's the way I zero , hold/aim , pull the trigger . What ever it is I believe it can be corrected cus I can shoot some nice groups just not at what I'm aiming at

just noticed new replys

As for adjusting my sights . No cus I just started looking at ALL of my targets I have saved lately and noticed this pattern . This is not just one range trip but over many trips . I've been saving my targets and was just looking at them all at once and noticed the problem . Thought I would ask you guys before I went out again for some ideas to work on

[coyota1]

Well, nothing you probably haven't been told, but at the bench try to relax. If you are contorted in any way, eg; leaning over too much then correct that. Try to sit about 45 degrees to the gun. If you have a creepy trigger, all the more reason to squeeeeze and not jerk. You can work with lousy triggers if you know what to expect.

[DPris]

Take a couple of your rifles out, make some sight adjustments, see if you're still shooting right, and if you are, go on from there.
If you've never adjusted your sights, you have no way of knowing if it's the gun or you.

That's pretty elementary, unless I'm missing something here.
Denis

[Metal god]

Im sorry if I misled anyone about adjusting my sights . Of course I have .over some time I've changed scopes , moved iron sights back & forth , taken the red-dot off and put it back on , torture tested my MBUS on my gas block and it lost zero by doing so . All of these things caused me to re-zero my guns .

What I meant was I have not adjusted my sights since noticing the problem .I have adjusted/played with my sights many time for several different reasons . I have not been back to the range sense becoming aware of my issue .

[DPris]

In that case I'd suggest you're canting the gun.
Work on that & see what happens.

Is there a crosswind commonality?
Is there a one-sided sunlight commonality?
Denis

[coyota1]

I agree with DPris.

[Metal god]

you're canting the gun.

By this you mean I may not be holding the gun straight/square/level when I fire .

I will keep this in mind next time I go

Really when I think about it . when ever I put a scoped rifle up to my cheek and look through the scope the reticle almost always looks crooked to me at first . I've always known this and thought it was because my natural/comfortable hold on the gun was crooked . I did not think this would matter cus you could hold a gun upside down and it shoud still shoot accurately.

What does canting your rifle when firing to do ? , to the right or the left ?

Or is the hole problem I cant the rifle when zeroing in the rifle which scews everything up from the get go .

HUM I think we might be getting somewhere ( interesting )

As much as that makes sense it kinda doesn't . I don't know

Maybe you guys can elaborate a little more .

[madcratebuilder]

Could be from canting. Have another good shooter fire a few rounds and see if the point of impact is still to the right of center.

[Metal god]

Have another good shooter fire a few rounds and see if the point of impact is still to the right of center.

It's funny you say this . It was months ago when I first got the American . A budy and I were at the range . He shoots better then me , ish . Anyways , I finished zeroing the rifle for the first time and I was doing well with it . When he shot it , all his groups were a little to the left but mine were bang on . ( interesting )

You guys are asking good questions and it's bringing back memorys I forgot about . I'm so glad I started this thread . All the pieces of the puzzle are starting to come together .

Lets say I'm canting the rifle . Whats the best way to fix it ? If this is in fact the problem I'm betting it will be a hard habit to break . I'm sure I've done this sense the first time I picked up a rifle . The muscle memory is going to be deeply ingrained .

[TheNatureBoy]

I agree with Coyota1. I think it has more to do with shooting mechanics than anything else. Looking at your groups I'd say you rifle is performing well with the ammo you selected.

I was dry firing in my garage one day and as I looked through my scope and pulled the trigger, it made a sudden (but slight) move to the right that was enough to change the point of impact. I did that 4-5 times with the same result. With the next 5 shot group I made a conscious effort to slowly squeeze the trigger towards the rear in the process allowing it to break naturally and the cross hairs of my scope stayed on target. There are a few other things that you can check from a "shooting mechanics" stand point that might help as well. Thats my 1/2 cents worth

[big al hunter]

Lots of good advice already. Thought I might add a little more. If it is trigger related this may help. Place your finger on the trigger so that the pad of your finger tip is centered on the trigger. Avoid putting the trigger in the crease at the joint. Using the pad of your finger reduces the pulling affect because your finger is not wrapped around the trigger. This also causes your finger to push straight back on the trigger. This technique helped me with my double action revolver, I too was shooting right occasionally. Same principles apply to rifles.

[DPris]

On the cant issue.
If you're shooting off a steady rest, the gun is well benched, your body is sufficiently braced & immobile, and you're pulling the trigger slowly & deliberately, the trigger pull should not be throwing you in any sideways direction.

How does cant work?
Very simply, if you tilt the rifle to the right, you'll shoot to the right.
If you tilt it to the left, you'll shoot to the left.

Intrinsic accuracy involves two facets: One is group size, which won't be affected substantially even if the gun's held upside down, and the other is mating point of impact to point of aim, which is very much affected by the gun's attitude when firing.

The sights are set for elevation to allow for a bullet's upward (arc) trajectory at a given distance. Your muzzle is slightly elevated when you shoot, it's not parallel to the ground. If it were, gravity would pull the bullet down well short of reaching the longer distances a rifle is typically used for.
Fire it upside down and you'll shoot WAY short, since the barrel's now actually pointed at a slight angle down, relative to the ground.

The best way to fix cant is to take the time to correctly align your sight picture dead level & horizontal on each shot.
Eventually it'll become automatic.
Hopefully, anyway.

Denis

[coyota1]

Place your finger on the trigger so that the pad of your finger tip is centered on the trigger.

It is common for benchrest shooters to pumice stone their trigger finger for that extra bit of feel. Maybe I'll try it myself. Calculations show that it only takes .001" of movement at the bench will translate into 1/4" at 100 yards. It's no wonder sighting in a gun, or testing out a batch of reloads can be just as maddening as it is fun. I give it a rest after I get feeling punchy.

[Metal god]

The sights are set for elevation to allow for a bullet's upward (arc) trajectory at a given distance. Your muzzle is slightly elevated when you shoot, it's not parallel to the ground. If it were, gravity would pull the bullet down well short of reaching the longer distances a rifle is typically used for.
Fire it upside down and you'll shoot WAY short, since the barrel's now actually pointed at a slight angle down, relative to the ground.

Thank you for this . It makes perfect sense . It also explains why the problem is not so noticeable at shorter ranges . The bullet has not started to arc that much yet .

I will also work on my trigger pull . Not sure about stoning my finger but I get what you mean coyota1 . I'll concentrate more on finger placement and trigger pull as well

This all makes me want to go shooting right now .

[allaroundhunter]

One other thing is to watch the wind.

If you are shooting at 300 yards with a crosswind, you can expect your groups to be moved about 3" with a 10 mph wind.

(but that is a side note, I agree that canting the rifle is a safe bet since it is a common trend amongst several guns)

[Bamashooter]

Damn that flyer on the last 300yrd target. The Ruger American seems to perform very well for the coin.