Question about Lee Factory Crimp Die

[maillemaker]

OK, due to extraction problems I'm seeing with my .45 ACP reloads, I'm considering running all my rounds through a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

I'm currently set up to reload with a Lee Pro 1000, which is a 3-stage progressive setup. Deprime/Size station 1, Bell/Powder station 2, and Seat/Crimp station 3.

So, I think I need a single-stage press:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=807734

A shell holder for .45 ACP:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=616684

And the Lee FCD:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...ductTabReviews

Question:

Since my cartridges will already have bullets seated and crimped (and I already have some 800 rounds loaded), can I run them through the FCD without crimping? In other words, can I set up the FCD to only do the resizing and not the crimping?

I assume I'd just set it up so that it "re-crimps" the existing crimp and no more, that is, that it adds no more crimp than is already there.

Does this sound right?

[jepp2]

OK, due to extraction problems I'm seeing with my .45 ACP reloads, I'm considering running all my rounds through a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

I can see how the Lee die will help with feeding and chambering, but I don't see how the die is going to help with extraction? Am I missing something?

[maillemaker]

See my thread here:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440773

The case rim on my extracted rounds is catching on the case bulge on the top round in the magazine, causing a failure to extract.

Sometimes, rarely, the case rim is catching on the case mouth of the top round in the magazine. Sizer die probably won't help with that, but should help with the catching on the bulge?

Steve

[wncchester]

Remove the top cap and crimp ring and run your loads into the FCD die. Lee's post-sizing ring should fix your hang-up problem.

[maggys drawers]

As I understand how the FCD works, it has both a sizer ring and a crimp function that is adjustable. I think all you would have to do on ammo that is already crimped is adjust the crimp function to be less than what you already have on your ammunition.

Essentially, you would be using the FCD as a post-crimp sizer.

I use a FCD on my .45 loads for crimp, and use my regular seater/crimp die as a seater only.

The only problem encountered with a FCD as far as I know is with cast bullets. If you need an larger diameter bullet than the crimp ring allows, as in your gun barrel was bored on the 'generous' side of normal, it essentially irons out the bullet to a predetermined diameter, negating the use of a larger diameter. Marlin lever actions in .44 are known for their generous bores, and a lot of shooters shoot .432 diameter bullets to solve the problem. The FCD resizes the slug to .430 and accuracy falls off. I know of no such problem with the .45 ACP.

People either love or hate the FCD. I'm quite happy with mine, so is my 1911.

[flyboyjake]

With all that advice, just dont attempt to take the decapper out of your sizing die and run them through there...Your lead bullet doesnt have the elasticity of the brass case, and it will size the bullet down, but the brass will spring back some, causing your bullet to fall in and out of the case. I learned this the hard way when I just started. It made sense at the time, lol...

[FtrPilot]

maillemaker...let me admit up front that I don't own a Lee Pro 1000. I load on a Hornady LNL AP. If I had your problem, I would not buy a single stage press. I would take all of the dies out, install the Lee Factory Crimp Die in station 1. Adjust the FCD like others have described. Then once you have the FCD set, cycle your 800 rounds through.

How difficult is it to change dies on the Lee Pro 1000?

[QBall45]

Using the Lee FCD when used as directed WILL NOT cause the bullet to fall out. I have loaded thousands of cast lead rounds for my 45acp using the Lee FCD. I always set it to crimp properly and have as yet had a single issue with loose or falling out bullets. Set this die right and it works perfectly. This will help with the op's orignal issue. However it would be a wise more to check extractor tension and extractor hook shape. Also be certain the hook is not chipped, cracked or broken.

[jaguarxk120]

Sounds more like a magazine problem. What do you do with standard loaded factory/mil. rounds. The issue mil. cartridges are not crimped.

Your making the ammo. solve the problem, if you use factory or mil. shells they will jamb in your gun due to magazine feed lips letting the next shell come up too high.

[spacecoast]

A hand press would work just fine, but if you have the space I would go for the single stage press as you indicated.

Also, with it being tricky to seat and crimp at the same time, I would just seat in step #3 and crimp/full size in the final step. Don't worry, the bullets aren't going to fall out after seating and you will get a better quality crimp IMHO.

Interesting that the .45 ACP shell holder is the same as .308 and .30-06, didn't know that. I think the same is true of .380ACP and .223 Rem.

[engineermike]

If factor ammo works but your reloads don't, then where and when does this bulge that is causing the problem come from? Why are your reloads bulging and the the factory ammo not. Also you may be belling your case mouth too much if you are going to have to crimp to take the bell out of the case mouth after load your ammo. Also if you are crimping and seating at the same time you may be putting to much pressure on the case wall and putting the bulge in you case while you are seating and crimping at the same time. Seating and then crimping the case in two separate steps would help this. Just buy the crimper die (Factory Crimp Die or a taper crimp die) put in the press you already have and run the bullets you already have made up through the re-crimp process and see if that fixes your problem. If this fixes the problem then go out and buy another single stage press and add it to your bench.

[Sport45]

How do you wind up with a bulge under the bullet??? It looks like you are not sizing the cases enough or are crimping WAY too much. If anything the case should be slightly smaller below the bullet.

http://www.forth-armoury.com/temp/bu...10213-1329.jpg

I'll go out on a limb and guess you get a lot of leading too. The undersize bullet and case may be setting too high in the magazine and interfering with extraction. Just my guess...

[maillemaker]

With all that advice, just dont attempt to take the decapper out of your sizing die and run them through there...Your lead bullet doesnt have the elasticity of the brass case, and it will size the bullet down, but the brass will spring back some, causing your bullet to fall in and out of the case. I learned this the hard way when I just started. It made sense at the time, lol...

LOL, that thought did occur to me, but I didn't do it because I figured even with the deprimer pin removed there would be some protrusion inside the die that would dent the bullet.

maillemaker...let me admit up front that I don't own a Lee Pro 1000. I load on a Hornady LNL AP. If I had your problem, I would not buy a single stage press. I would take all of the dies out, install the Lee Factory Crimp Die in station 1. Adjust the FCD like others have described. Then once you have the FCD set, cycle your 800 rounds through.

How difficult is it to change dies on the Lee Pro 1000?

That's not a bad idea. Though a little single stage press like above is only $30.

Using the Lee FCD when used as directed WILL NOT cause the bullet to fall out. I have loaded thousands of cast lead rounds for my 45acp using the Lee FCD. I always set it to crimp properly and have as yet had a single issue with loose or falling out bullets. Set this die right and it works perfectly. This will help with the op's orignal issue. However it would be a wise more to check extractor tension and extractor hook shape. Also be certain the hook is not chipped, cracked or broken.

You mis-read what the guy wrote. He was not saying the Lee FCD would make the bullet fall out. He said using the DECAPPER/SIZER die on finished ammo would make the bullet fall out.

Sounds more like a magazine problem. What do you do with standard loaded factory/mil. rounds. The issue mil. cartridges are not crimped.

Your making the ammo. solve the problem, if you use factory or mil. shells they will jamb in your gun due to magazine feed lips letting the next shell come up too high.

If factor ammo works but your reloads don't, then where and when does this bulge that is causing the problem come from? Why are your reloads bulging and the the factory ammo not. Also you may be belling your case mouth too much if you are going to have to crimp to take the bell out of the case mouth after load your ammo. Also if you are crimping and seating at the same time you may be putting to much pressure on the case wall and putting the bulge in you case while you are seating and crimping at the same time. Seating and then crimping the case in two separate steps would help this. Just buy the crimper die (Factory Crimp Die or a taper crimp die) put in the press you already have and run the bullets you already have made up through the re-crimp process and see if that fixes your problem. If this fixes the problem then go out and buy another single stage press and add it to your bench.

Factory ammo shoots no problem. Also, my reloads using purchased bullets, Oregon Trail Laser Cast, work with no problem.

First question: The bulge: The bulge is non-concentric. I can see this by laying a straight edge along the outside of the case and turning the case with my fingers. The bulge is .002-.004 larger in diameter than the nominal case diameter. Because it is non-concentric, I suspect the bullet is very slightly cocked in the case.

A nice user here from the forum called me last night and explained what he thinks the problem is, and I think me may be right:

He says that with factory ammo (and possibly/probably with the purchased bullets made of nice bullet alloy), that when cases are extracted from the chamber the case rim of the ejected case bounces/slides off of the nice, hard jacketed nose of the bullet and keeps on trucking, being ejected as normal.

With my soft lead wheel weight alloy, which may be softer than the purchased Oregon Trail lead bullets, and is definitely softer than FMJ, he thinks that the rim of the case is hitting the soft lead bullet nose and is digging in and losing energy, enough to make it slide along the bullet and cartridge below rather than skip.

In fact, when I look at the couple of bullets I got that had bent case mouths caused by the rim of an extracted case, there are skid marks and dents on the nose of the bullet leading up to the case mouth dent.

His suggestion was to bend the magazine feed lips down very slightly to see if I could lower the nose of incoming rounds so that the extracted case rims don't hit it so aggressively. Of course one has to be careful or you can lower the bullet nose enough that it won't feed properly, either.

I will examine the extractor carefully tonight, but I don't think there is a problem with the firearm because it shoots factory ammo with no problem.

I'm tempted to go ahead and get the FCD to use as a factory resizer and go ahead and resize all my ammo. The reviews on Midway consistently say that people who had failures to cycle had their problems go away once they re-sized their ammo. It would be cheap to do - less than $50, $30 if I use my existing press and just remove the dies.

Steve

[flyboyjake]

Using the Lee FCD when used as directed WILL NOT cause the bullet to fall out. I have loaded thousands of cast lead rounds for my 45acp using the Lee FCD

You will note that I cautioned him about sizing a loaded case again in his sizing die with the decapper pulled out...I mentioned nothing of the FCD