Florida attempts to pass open carry.........

Les Maynard · March 25, 2011, 08:34 AM

House Bill 517, introduced by state Representative Chris Dorworth (R) was heard today in the House Judiciary Committee today and PASSED by a 14 to 4 vote.

HB 517 would make much needed changes to the Florida "Right-to-Carry" law -- also known as the Concealed Weapons Licensing law and it would also conform Florida’s firearms purchase law with federal law. http://www.floridatoday.com/article/...t|Local%20News

AirForceShooter · March 25, 2011, 09:56 AM

if you look at the proposal it's not all that great.
You need a CCW to open carry????
Need a retention holster???

It's more like a law that covers a CCW holder is the gun is exposed when there's a wardrobe malfunction.

AFS

EdInk · March 25, 2011, 10:23 AM

Better than nothing. It would prevent frivolous brandish charges, if your shirt moves a bit.

tmorone · March 25, 2011, 10:49 AM

+1 EdInk

And for those of us more versed in the law, any idea when that will actually take effect?

**Aguila Blanca** · March 25, 2011, 10:56 AM

Being passed by the committee does not mean the bill passed the legislature. It only means it is referred out of committee for a vote before the full legislature.

It's a good sign, but don't put the cart before the horse.

45Gunner · March 26, 2011, 01:03 AM

Clicked on the link and nothing came up. I guess I will do the research to read up on this.

I believe that if one has the desire to open carry, he should indeed have a CCW permit, especially in Florida where there are too many cowboys in the city. I have lived in Florida for nearly 50 years so I speak from experience.

I am not a fan of open carry and would not do so even if approved by law. I believe it is not to one's tactical advantage...just my opinion, but this topic has been discussed many times in previous postings so I will stop right here.

**Aguila Blanca** · March 26, 2011, 07:46 AM

Unless the bill has been revised since I saw the language, it has a "poison pill" provision in it. To open carry, not only must you carry in a Level 2 retention holster AND display your license in a transparent holder on your belt, you must also have passed a firearms training class that includes training in firearms retention.

No current FL license holder has had such training, and the training types specifically mentioned in the law do not include it -- so how can this provision be enforced? Is Florida going to start issuing two types of concealed carry permits, one for concealed concealed (would that be a concealed[squared] permit?) carry, and another for concealed open (or would that be openly concealed) carry?

GoOfY-FoOt · March 26, 2011, 08:11 AM

No. It hasn't "passed" yet. It must continue through a series of committees, first and then be subjected to a floor vote. It has passed Criminal Justice and now, the Judiciary. It must now go to the Rules Committee and then, the Floor. If it garners a majority vote, throughout, it must then be submitted to the Governor to be signed. Then, and only then, will it become law.

And the stipulations, regarding training and retention holsters and badges needing to be displayed, was crushed and removed back in the Criminal Justice Committee.

Now, the new Bill on a Mag Capacity Ban, in Florida, has me a bit upset.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445724

And related poll...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445814

Cutback55 · March 26, 2011, 08:57 PM

Here is the link to the story. I guess its better than nothing.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-bu...-carry-gun-law

http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=14945

chris in va · March 27, 2011, 12:34 AM

Sounds like the bill needs to be nixed and tried again next year with fewer restrictions.

flcjinflorida · March 27, 2011, 06:59 PM

I really wouldn't mind the magazine cap. That being said, I know I will probably get my head bit off for saying that.

Even though I will probably not open carry, I like the idea that if my gun becomes visible, I cannot be arrested for brandishing.

I do not like the fact that Jim Coates said that he would make every man with a gun call a level one priority and that the person with the gun would be drawn down on.

ClydeFrog · March 28, 2011, 12:55 AM

To my limited understanding, the NRA action groups & Marion Hammer(love her!

) are working to revise or change a few of the new bill's regulations.
The FL Sheriff's Assoc pushed to have license holders get weapon retention skill training, badges or IDs next to the holstered firearm(???) and level II & up security holsters.
I'm wondering if the local PD or elected sheriff in each Florida county will pony up the $$$ for security holsters or provide the "weapon retention" classes.
As I posted on another firearms/2A forum, the working cops & supervisors of the Sunshine state need to track down illegal aliens, drug gangs & terrorists FIRST, then worry about armed, licensed citizens with NO criminal backgrounds carrying open top holsters or ID cards.

Clyde

Jim March · March 28, 2011, 02:42 AM

Wait...who is this Coates guy and what exactly did he say?

GoOfY-FoOt · March 28, 2011, 07:00 AM

+1 ^^ Wait...who is this Coates guy and what exactly did he say?

gyvel · March 28, 2011, 07:38 AM

Jim COATS is the sheriff of Pinellas County, Fl.

Pinellas county is the "home" of St. Petersburg, aka "Wrinkletown," "Pruneburg" "Shrivel City," etc.

GoOfY-FoOt · March 28, 2011, 08:15 PM

I ran a quick search and determined who he is but the question was:

Quote:

Wait...who is this Coates guy and what exactly did he say?

I sifted through several pages and couldn't find any of his quotes regarding OC. And the link in the OP is not valid any longer...

flcjinflorida · April 3, 2011, 01:32 AM

I really don't believe that a lot of people will be carrying openly. That being said, I do like the fact that we would have a choice. I mean, carrying a weapon is a constitutional right, so I don't see why we need permission from the government to carry in the first place. However, I suppose that is an argument for another thread.

maestro pistolero · April 3, 2011, 02:58 AM

Quote:

And the stipulations, regarding training and retention holsters and badges needing to be displayed, was crushed and removed back in the Criminal Justice Committee.

Great. So the thrust of this thread criticizing the restrictions is misplaced, no?
Sounds like a move in the right direction.

GoOfY-FoOt · April 3, 2011, 07:17 AM

Well, HB 517, has cruised through all three committees, in the house and is ready to go to the floor.

Bt, SB 234, the companion bill, is tied up on the Senate side and both need to pass for this to become law.

The Senator who brought the bill has repeatedly asked for it to be scheduled but is currently getting the run-around. He said, she said, crap.

We members of FloridaCarry.org have been on an email crusade, which has had success in the past. We hope to trump that, this time.

If you are a concerned Floridian or FL CWP holder, please write to those that have the ability to push this forward. Don't let one (1) committee chairperson kill this entire effort. Go to http://www.open-carry.org/ for more information and a list of people to write to.

flcjinflorida · April 3, 2011, 01:35 PM

Goofy Foot, thank you for the link to that site. I went there, read the petition, and signed it. I appreciate that there are actually people who will stand up for their rights.

GoOfY-FoOt · April 11, 2011, 07:46 PM

Well, thanks to all of those who loaded the email boxes of the committee chairperson who was apparently attempting to stall SB 234, and the Senate President, Mr. Haridopolos, The bill has finally been scheduled to be heard, tomorrow.

This is the second of three committees, the bill must pass to catch up with it's House counterpart, HB 517.

If these both pass their respective committees and receive a favorable floor vote, one will be forwarded to the Governor who has promised to sign it into law. They are currently worded so that, they go into effect immediately, upon becoming a law.

I'm unsure how often approved bills are submited the the Governor's office, but we are getting closer...

Justice06RR · April 12, 2011, 02:20 AM

I'm hoping this bill would pass. Not that I would open carry often, but it would make it less of a pain if your firearm shows for some reason.

Today after jogging in the am in a public trail, I needed to change my shirt and had to make sure no one saw my XD in my belly band holster. OC will change all that...

Jimmy10mm · April 12, 2011, 07:32 AM

Quote:

I believe that if one has the desire to open carry, he should indeed have a CCW permit, especially in Florida where there are too many cowboys in the city. I have lived in Florida for nearly 50 years so I speak from experience.

I am not a fan of open carry and would not do so even if approved by law. I believe it is not to one's tactical advantage...just my opinion, but this topic has been discussed many times in previous postings so I will stop right here.

45Gunner said it all for me. I think if it ever does pass, which I doubt it ever will, it will cause us more trouble than it will be worth. Concealed is a tactical advantage AFAIC and OC will give the antis more fuel for their fire. YMMV.

Don P · April 12, 2011, 08:35 AM

I hope it passes just to cover all of us who CCW and on occasion have printed or inadvertently exposed our weapon due to movement. If and when it passes doesn't mean WE have to OC. Nice to have the option

Al Norris · April 12, 2011, 09:09 AM

Purely as a legal question, the bearing of arms is a fundamental right.

Various schemes that implement (or not) concealed carry have a long line of judicial approval. What is not approved is a total ban on carry.

What I believe we will be seeing, in the next 5 to 10 years, is that regulations for concealed carry will come under increasingly close scrutiny by the courts, but mainly for those States that don't allow for some form of nearly unregulated open carry.

Florida appears to be taking the middle road, here. They want to regulate all carry, but in a "reasonable" manner. How the Courts will see that is still open for debate.

I know that in States like Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada and Wyoming, where open carry is almost unregulated and and regulations for concealed carry are liberal by most other standards, there will be no real court challenges (let's leave out the so-called constitutional carry aspect for this discussion, please) based solely upon CC regulations.

It is all the other States that don't permit carry at all, or CC is the only method (and that is highly regulated) of carry, that we are seeing litigation.

Right now, the path that Florida is taking is perhaps the safest approach to head off litigation, for the near term.

The discussion should not be upon any merits of open carry v. concealed carry. The discussion should center upon how much regulation of a fundamental right is the State allowed.

March 25, 2011, 08:34 AM	#1
Les Maynard Member Join Date: August 24, 2009 Location: Safety Harbor, Florida since 2006 Waterloo, New York before 2006. Posts: 55	Florida attempts to pass open carry......... House Bill 517, introduced by state Representative Chris Dorworth (R) was heard today in the House Judiciary Committee today and PASSED by a 14 to 4 vote. HB 517 would make much needed changes to the Florida "Right-to-Carry" law -- also known as the Concealed Weapons Licensing law and it would also conform Florida’s firearms purchase law with federal law. http://www.floridatoday.com/article/...t\|Local%20News Last edited by Al Norris; April 28, 2011 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Title change to reflect reality

March 25, 2011, 10:23 AM	#3
EdInk Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2009 Posts: 3,968	Better than nothing. It would prevent frivolous brandish charges, if your shirt moves a bit. __________________ Sic Semper Tyrannis

March 26, 2011, 01:03 AM	#6
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	Clicked on the link and nothing came up. I guess I will do the research to read up on this. I believe that if one has the desire to open carry, he should indeed have a CCW permit, especially in Florida where there are too many cowboys in the city. I have lived in Florida for nearly 50 years so I speak from experience. I am not a fan of open carry and would not do so even if approved by law. I believe it is not to one's tactical advantage...just my opinion, but this topic has been discussed many times in previous postings so I will stop right here. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member

March 27, 2011, 06:59 PM	#11
flcjinflorida Member Join Date: September 20, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 93	I really wouldn't mind the magazine cap. That being said, I know I will probably get my head bit off for saying that. Even though I will probably not open carry, I like the idea that if my gun becomes visible, I cannot be arrested for brandishing. I do not like the fact that Jim Coates said that he would make every man with a gun call a level one priority and that the person with the gun would be drawn down on. __________________ Proud member of the NRA "I carry a gun because my back can't handle the weight of a law enforcement officer. " -Me

March 28, 2011, 12:55 AM	#12
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	FL gun laws, NRA actions, Marion Hammer, FL Sheriffs Assoc... To my limited understanding, the NRA action groups & Marion Hammer(love her! ) are working to revise or change a few of the new bill's regulations. The FL Sheriff's Assoc pushed to have license holders get weapon retention skill training, badges or IDs next to the holstered firearm(???) and level II & up security holsters. I'm wondering if the local PD or elected sheriff in each Florida county will pony up the $$$ for security holsters or provide the "weapon retention" classes. As I posted on another firearms/2A forum, the working cops & supervisors of the Sunshine state need to track down illegal aliens, drug gangs & terrorists FIRST, then worry about armed, licensed citizens with NO criminal backgrounds carrying open top holsters or ID cards. Clyde

March 25, 2011, 09:56 AM	#2
AirForceShooter Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Sarasota (sort of) Florida Posts: 1,296	if you look at the proposal it's not all that great. You need a CCW to open carry???? Need a retention holster??? It's more like a law that covers a CCW holder is the gun is exposed when there's a wardrobe malfunction. AFS

March 25, 2011, 10:49 AM	#4
tmorone Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2010 Posts: 221	+1 EdInk And for those of us more versed in the law, any idea when that will actually take effect?

March 25, 2011, 10:56 AM	#5
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	Being passed by the committee does not mean the bill passed the legislature. It only means it is referred out of committee for a vote before the full legislature. It's a good sign, but don't put the cart before the horse.

March 26, 2011, 07:46 AM	#7
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	Unless the bill has been revised since I saw the language, it has a "poison pill" provision in it. To open carry, not only must you carry in a Level 2 retention holster AND display your license in a transparent holder on your belt, you must also have passed a firearms training class that includes training in firearms retention. No current FL license holder has had such training, and the training types specifically mentioned in the law do not include it -- so how can this provision be enforced? Is Florida going to start issuing two types of concealed carry permits, one for concealed concealed (would that be a concealed[squared] permit?) carry, and another for concealed open (or would that be openly concealed) carry?

March 26, 2011, 08:11 AM	#8
GoOfY-FoOt Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2011 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 463	No. It hasn't "passed" yet. It must continue through a series of committees, first and then be subjected to a floor vote. It has passed Criminal Justice and now, the Judiciary. It must now go to the Rules Committee and then, the Floor. If it garners a majority vote, throughout, it must then be submitted to the Governor to be signed. Then, and only then, will it become law. And the stipulations, regarding training and retention holsters and badges needing to be displayed, was crushed and removed back in the Criminal Justice Committee. Now, the new Bill on a Mag Capacity Ban, in Florida, has me a bit upset. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445724 And related poll... http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445814

March 26, 2011, 08:57 PM	#9
Cutback55 Junior member Join Date: March 26, 2011 Posts: 8	Here is the link to the story. I guess its better than nothing. http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-bu...-carry-gun-law http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=14945

March 27, 2011, 12:34 AM	#10
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Sounds like the bill needs to be nixed and tried again next year with fewer restrictions.

March 28, 2011, 02:42 AM	#13
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Wait...who is this Coates guy and what exactly did he say? __________________ Jim March

March 28, 2011, 07:00 AM	#14
GoOfY-FoOt Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2011 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 463	+1 ^^ Wait...who is this Coates guy and what exactly did he say?

March 28, 2011, 07:38 AM	#15
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Jim COATS is the sheriff of Pinellas County, Fl. Pinellas county is the "home" of St. Petersburg, aka "Wrinkletown," "Pruneburg" "Shrivel City," etc.

April 3, 2011, 01:32 AM	#17
flcjinflorida Member Join Date: September 20, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 93	I really don't believe that a lot of people will be carrying openly. That being said, I do like the fact that we would have a choice. I mean, carrying a weapon is a constitutional right, so I don't see why we need permission from the government to carry in the first place. However, I suppose that is an argument for another thread. __________________ Proud member of the NRA "I carry a gun because my back can't handle the weight of a law enforcement officer. " -Me

April 3, 2011, 07:17 AM	#19
GoOfY-FoOt Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2011 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 463	Well, HB 517, has cruised through all three committees, in the house and is ready to go to the floor. Bt, SB 234, the companion bill, is tied up on the Senate side and both need to pass for this to become law. The Senator who brought the bill has repeatedly asked for it to be scheduled but is currently getting the run-around. He said, she said, crap. We members of FloridaCarry.org have been on an email crusade, which has had success in the past. We hope to trump that, this time. If you are a concerned Floridian or FL CWP holder, please write to those that have the ability to push this forward. Don't let one (1) committee chairperson kill this entire effort. Go to http://www.open-carry.org/ for more information and a list of people to write to.

April 3, 2011, 01:35 PM	#20
flcjinflorida Member Join Date: September 20, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 93	Goofy Foot, thank you for the link to that site. I went there, read the petition, and signed it. I appreciate that there are actually people who will stand up for their rights. __________________ Proud member of the NRA "I carry a gun because my back can't handle the weight of a law enforcement officer. " -Me

April 11, 2011, 07:46 PM	#21
GoOfY-FoOt Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2011 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 463	Well, thanks to all of those who loaded the email boxes of the committee chairperson who was apparently attempting to stall SB 234, and the Senate President, Mr. Haridopolos, The bill has finally been scheduled to be heard, tomorrow. This is the second of three committees, the bill must pass to catch up with it's House counterpart, HB 517. If these both pass their respective committees and receive a favorable floor vote, one will be forwarded to the Governor who has promised to sign it into law. They are currently worded so that, they go into effect immediately, upon becoming a law. I'm unsure how often approved bills are submited the the Governor's office, but we are getting closer...

April 12, 2011, 02:20 AM	#22
Justice06RR Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Central FL Posts: 1,360	I'm hoping this bill would pass. Not that I would open carry often, but it would make it less of a pain if your firearm shows for some reason. Today after jogging in the am in a public trail, I needed to change my shirt and had to make sure no one saw my XD in my belly band holster. OC will change all that...

April 12, 2011, 08:35 AM	#24
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	I hope it passes just to cover all of us who CCW and on occasion have printed or inadvertently exposed our weapon due to movement. If and when it passes doesn't mean WE have to OC. Nice to have the option __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

April 12, 2011, 09:09 AM	#25
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Purely as a legal question, the bearing of arms is a fundamental right. Various schemes that implement (or not) concealed carry have a long line of judicial approval. What is not approved is a total ban on carry. What I believe we will be seeing, in the next 5 to 10 years, is that regulations for concealed carry will come under increasingly close scrutiny by the courts, but mainly for those States that don't allow for some form of nearly unregulated open carry. Florida appears to be taking the middle road, here. They want to regulate all carry, but in a "reasonable" manner. How the Courts will see that is still open for debate. I know that in States like Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada and Wyoming, where open carry is almost unregulated and and regulations for concealed carry are liberal by most other standards, there will be no real court challenges (let's leave out the so-called constitutional carry aspect for this discussion, please) based solely upon CC regulations. It is all the other States that don't permit carry at all, or CC is the only method (and that is highly regulated) of carry, that we are seeing litigation. Right now, the path that Florida is taking is perhaps the safest approach to head off litigation, for the near term. The discussion should not be upon any merits of open carry v. concealed carry. The discussion should center upon how much regulation of a fundamental right is the State allowed.