Any help with ID'ing a rifle is appreciated - Page 2

RC20 · March 1, 2018, 03:15 PM

HarlyJ: I had a brain zark, my apologies, yes yours is high enough to be outside the heat treat issue.

I would load carefully with that barrel. Normally its not barrels that burst but receiver let go.

Good advices on the rest.

RC20 · March 1, 2018, 03:19 PM

Any reason you want to change the stock?

Its likely a beautiful piece of wood that was not finished and a refinish done right would be very nice.

As noted, the barrel could be from anyone, you would have to remove from the stock and might find markings but custom work was a norm for the 1903 as it did not cost that much back in the day.

**Mike Irwin** · March 2, 2018, 10:32 AM

.284 Winchester was, for a short period of time, a "hot" cartridge in the 1960s.

The body was larger than the case head (creating what is known as a rebated head), allowing it to hold the same amount of powder as the .270 but in a shorter overall case.

Winchester chambered the Models 88, 100, and 70 in the round.

Savage also chambered the .284 for a short period of time (one of the rarer chamberings in the Model 99).

Not sure about Remington.

Overall, though, the cartridge was pretty much a failure, but in the past 20 or 30 years it's seen renewed interest among long range shooters and also wildcatters, who use the case as the basis for new rounds.

T. O'Heir · March 2, 2018, 02:00 PM

The .284 Winchester chambering is an issue. There's very little loaded ammo available. Midway shows Winchester as 'Limited Production'. Means they only load it when they feel like it. Grafs shows only Precision Cartridge ammo and it's not available from PCI either.
Brass, on the other hand, is available from Midway. Not exactly cheap, but they show Winchester brass at $39.99 per 50($769.99 per 1,000). That's cheaper than Graf's who want $35.59 per 20 for Quality Cartridge brass they don't have. Suggest you buy as much of the Winchester from Midway as you can afford.

Jim Watson · March 2, 2018, 02:06 PM

There have been loaders necking Norma or Lapua 6.5x284 back to .284.
Some target shooters have been getting away from the barrel burners to medium size cartridges and depending on high BC bullets.

RC20 · March 2, 2018, 03:22 PM

I think its also uses to make 7.5 Swiss but with PPU available at a decent price (Lapua sometimes as well) I don't see the drive for that. PPU is about on par with RP which is good brass at least in rifle.

Its an interesting cartridge.

HarlieJ1999 · March 3, 2018, 08:50 PM

Thanks for all the info - I finally was able to remove the scope base and sure enough - Springfield Model 1903. As far as changing the stock, I think I'll refinish it. There a pretty good chunk out of the top - right in the middle and I think I can clean it up and possibly do an inlay. I've go quite a few boxes of Winchester factory loads so I can't wait to get it reblued, new scope, etc.

RC20 · March 4, 2018, 11:58 AM

We had to re-barrel our dads 1903 Sporter due to chamber damage (not common)

We kept all the rest as it is part of the family heritage.

My dad and brother did the stock for it, lightweight sporter class if you will.

They did a beautiful job.

While it would shoot nicer in a heavier stock, I have a slip on pad for it that works well. WE don't shoot it a ton, but it get taken out 3 or 4 times a year.

Bolt face is a bit messed up but no brass damage, the trigger is awful.

Despite the non great aspect, it shoot 1 1/4 groups.

We figured as long as its not a safety issue (barrel was) we wanted as much of it kept together.

It in turned spawned a new interest in milgary guns, history, I wandered into Model of 1917s and its been quite a unexpected area of interest we never expected when the decision was made what to do about the bad chamber.

HarlieJ1999 · April 22, 2018, 09:51 PM

I'll post some pictures when I'm done doing what I want to do to it. Took it last weekend to have the barrel and associated parts hot blued. Asked the smith to rejewel the bolt and he said it was fine so I trust his word.

As far as ammo availability, found about 10 boxes of Winchester .284 last weekend so I have plenty of ammo. Also found a lot of oddball ammo - some I'd never ever heard about - very old boxes - that Dad want me to sell.

Quick question/opinion - just at the top of the wood stock - right where the safety would be on a No. 1 Ruger - there's a little chunk of wood missing. Should I just use wood filler or try to inlay a piece of wood in there? Thoughts?

**Mike Irwin** · April 23, 2018, 07:03 AM

"Also found a lot of oddball ammo - some I'd never ever heard about - very old boxes - that Dad want me to sell."

Do tell! Do tell!

Old ammo is one of my favorite topics!

HarlieJ1999 · April 24, 2018, 06:51 AM

Here you go.

Jim Watson · April 24, 2018, 08:20 AM

Ammo is not THAT old, and would be of interest to anybody with one of the calibers.

Quote:

Quick question/opinion - just at the top of the wood stock - right where the safety would be on a No. 1 Ruger - there's a little chunk of wood missing. Should I just use wood filler or try to inlay a piece of wood in there? Thoughts?

One thing that can lead to a chip there is inletting the stock in contact with the tang of the action. It looks good, but recoil will chip out a piece there. A proper stock has a slight, very slight gap there. Maybe the gunsmith can do a neat repair, I would hate to see wood filler on a rifle stock.

the possum · April 24, 2018, 10:13 AM

Is the 250 Savage ammo still loaded? Or is it empty brass? I might know a guy lookin' for it...

**Mike Irwin** · April 24, 2018, 10:44 AM

The oldest box in there is the .250 Savage ammo by Winchester. That's probably right after World War II.

The two boxes of .222 Remington (white lettering on a red banner with a green top banner) are sometime in the early to mid 1950s.

The rest of the Remington boxes, with the red lettering on a white field, is late 1950s into the 1960s.

The rest of the Winchester boxes, with the red X are all 1960s.

The two boxes with duct tape on them are 1980s time frame.

**44 AMP** · April 24, 2018, 12:10 PM

The rifle pictured is a 1903 Springfield. .284 caliber means the barrel is NOT original. The stock is also not original. The extractor has been engine turned (a nice cosmetic touch), the bolt handle has been (rather roughly) relieved to clear the scope.

Quote:

Has an unusual on/off tab style safety.

that is NOT the safety. It is the magazine cutoff. One position allows rounds to feed from the magazine, the other does not (to allow for single loading the chamber) the mid position allows the bolt to be removed from the receiver.

The safety on the pictured rifle HAS BEEN REMOVED !!!!!!
The 1903 safety is a "wing" type, such as found on the 98 Mauser (and others).

I'll say this again, to be clear, your rifle does NOT HAVE A SAFETY on it, as pictured.

Looks like it was a good hunting rifle in its day, and still would be today, assuming the bore was still good. Clean it up, have the headspace checked, Check to ensure it has a factory spec chamber, sometimes the custom rifles had "improved" chambers. Not a huge deal if it does, just a slight complication if you plan to reload for it.

Factory ammo, brass, and dies are still available, but not cheap. Looks like you've got a half dozen or so boxes of ammo, plenty for quite a few years worth of regular hunting use. More ammo in stock (or components) never hurts, unless the kids don't have shoes and your other bills go unpaid.

Looks like a fair project, just keep in mind the 1903 action has its limitations. Don't try to turn it into a magnum, and things should work out well.

There are (or were...) scope safeties for the 1903. Not identical to the scope safety of the 98 Mauser, but worked the same way. As low mounted as that scope is, I'm not sure even the "scope safety" version of the safely wing would work on that gun, which is probably why the original safety was removed, and not replaced with anything.

Good luck, and be safe. With the gun the way its shown, the only safety is the one between your ears...

HarlieJ1999 · April 24, 2018, 09:24 PM

I believe the box is half full. I mistakenly didnt get counts when I took pictures. Will do so and post when I am back at the parent's house.

HarlieJ1999 · April 24, 2018, 09:26 PM

I appreciate the info greatly!

HarlieJ1999 · April 24, 2018, 09:28 PM

Before I took the proverbial leap to have it re-blued I looked at the bore and it was nice, bright and shiny. Working on sanding and refinishing the stock. When put back together, will put a modern scope on it and work on taking a few does out of the local population and feed some family members.

supercub99 · April 25, 2018, 11:37 PM

44 Amp is correct in that the safety has been removed for scope clearance. Those are low mount scope rings to boot. There are taller ones. The scope safeties 44 Amp is referring to were Buehler Safetys They can still be found and I have a couple in the drawer that I took off sporters and put the originals back on. I have some of those as well.

HarlieJ1999 · September 21, 2018, 09:39 PM

Reblueing is finished - the gunsmith did an excellent job. Gunsmith had some issues over the summer. Stock was refinished with 600 grit followed by 5 coats of TruOil. The scope I want to put on is a 6x18 Bushnell with a 50mm objective. Any suggestions on a scope base? I realize the objective is big but it's the scope I want to use. I'm looking at a base from S&K Mounts in Pennsylvania - probably will give them a call Monday. I'll post pics when it's done.

March 1, 2018, 03:15 PM	#26
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	HarlyJ: I had a brain zark, my apologies, yes yours is high enough to be outside the heat treat issue. I would load carefully with that barrel. Normally its not barrels that burst but receiver let go. Good advices on the rest. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

March 1, 2018, 03:19 PM	#27
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Any reason you want to change the stock? Its likely a beautiful piece of wood that was not finished and a refinish done right would be very nice. As noted, the barrel could be from anyone, you would have to remove from the stock and might find markings but custom work was a norm for the 1903 as it did not cost that much back in the day. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

March 2, 2018, 10:32 AM	#28
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	.284 Winchester was, for a short period of time, a "hot" cartridge in the 1960s. The body was larger than the case head (creating what is known as a rebated head), allowing it to hold the same amount of powder as the .270 but in a shorter overall case. Winchester chambered the Models 88, 100, and 70 in the round. Savage also chambered the .284 for a short period of time (one of the rarer chamberings in the Model 99). Not sure about Remington. Overall, though, the cartridge was pretty much a failure, but in the past 20 or 30 years it's seen renewed interest among long range shooters and also wildcatters, who use the case as the basis for new rounds. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 2, 2018, 02:00 PM	#29
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	The .284 Winchester chambering is an issue. There's very little loaded ammo available. Midway shows Winchester as 'Limited Production'. Means they only load it when they feel like it. Grafs shows only Precision Cartridge ammo and it's not available from PCI either. Brass, on the other hand, is available from Midway. Not exactly cheap, but they show Winchester brass at $39.99 per 50($769.99 per 1,000). That's cheaper than Graf's who want $35.59 per 20 for Quality Cartridge brass they don't have. Suggest you buy as much of the Winchester from Midway as you can afford. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

March 2, 2018, 03:22 PM	#31
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I think its also uses to make 7.5 Swiss but with PPU available at a decent price (Lapua sometimes as well) I don't see the drive for that. PPU is about on par with RP which is good brass at least in rifle. Its an interesting cartridge. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

March 2, 2018, 02:06 PM	#30
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	There have been loaders necking Norma or Lapua 6.5x284 back to .284. Some target shooters have been getting away from the barrel burners to medium size cartridges and depending on high BC bullets.

March 3, 2018, 08:50 PM	#32
HarlieJ1999 Member Join Date: February 27, 2018 Posts: 16	Thanks for all the info - I finally was able to remove the scope base and sure enough - Springfield Model 1903. As far as changing the stock, I think I'll refinish it. There a pretty good chunk out of the top - right in the middle and I think I can clean it up and possibly do an inlay. I've go quite a few boxes of Winchester factory loads so I can't wait to get it reblued, new scope, etc.

March 4, 2018, 11:58 AM	#33
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	We had to re-barrel our dads 1903 Sporter due to chamber damage (not common) We kept all the rest as it is part of the family heritage. My dad and brother did the stock for it, lightweight sporter class if you will. They did a beautiful job. While it would shoot nicer in a heavier stock, I have a slip on pad for it that works well. WE don't shoot it a ton, but it get taken out 3 or 4 times a year. Bolt face is a bit messed up but no brass damage, the trigger is awful. Despite the non great aspect, it shoot 1 1/4 groups. We figured as long as its not a safety issue (barrel was) we wanted as much of it kept together. It in turned spawned a new interest in milgary guns, history, I wandered into Model of 1917s and its been quite a unexpected area of interest we never expected when the decision was made what to do about the bad chamber. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

April 22, 2018, 09:51 PM	#34
HarlieJ1999 Member Join Date: February 27, 2018 Posts: 16	I'll post some pictures when I'm done doing what I want to do to it. Took it last weekend to have the barrel and associated parts hot blued. Asked the smith to rejewel the bolt and he said it was fine so I trust his word. As far as ammo availability, found about 10 boxes of Winchester .284 last weekend so I have plenty of ammo. Also found a lot of oddball ammo - some I'd never ever heard about - very old boxes - that Dad want me to sell. Quick question/opinion - just at the top of the wood stock - right where the safety would be on a No. 1 Ruger - there's a little chunk of wood missing. Should I just use wood filler or try to inlay a piece of wood in there? Thoughts?

April 23, 2018, 07:03 AM	#35
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	"Also found a lot of oddball ammo - some I'd never ever heard about - very old boxes - that Dad want me to sell." Do tell! Do tell! Old ammo is one of my favorite topics! __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 24, 2018, 10:13 AM	#38
the possum Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 555	Is the 250 Savage ammo still loaded? Or is it empty brass? I might know a guy lookin' for it...

April 24, 2018, 10:44 AM	#39
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	The oldest box in there is the .250 Savage ammo by Winchester. That's probably right after World War II. The two boxes of .222 Remington (white lettering on a red banner with a green top banner) are sometime in the early to mid 1950s. The rest of the Remington boxes, with the red lettering on a white field, is late 1950s into the 1960s. The rest of the Winchester boxes, with the red X are all 1960s. The two boxes with duct tape on them are 1980s time frame. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 24, 2018, 09:24 PM	#41
HarlieJ1999 Member Join Date: February 27, 2018 Posts: 16	I believe the box is half full. I mistakenly didnt get counts when I took pictures. Will do so and post when I am back at the parent's house.

April 24, 2018, 09:26 PM	#42
HarlieJ1999 Member Join Date: February 27, 2018 Posts: 16	I appreciate the info greatly!

April 24, 2018, 09:28 PM	#43
HarlieJ1999 Member Join Date: February 27, 2018 Posts: 16	Before I took the proverbial leap to have it re-blued I looked at the bore and it was nice, bright and shiny. Working on sanding and refinishing the stock. When put back together, will put a modern scope on it and work on taking a few does out of the local population and feed some family members.

April 25, 2018, 11:37 PM	#44
supercub99 Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 146	44 Amp is correct in that the safety has been removed for scope clearance. Those are low mount scope rings to boot. There are taller ones. The scope safeties 44 Amp is referring to were Buehler Safetys They can still be found and I have a couple in the drawer that I took off sporters and put the originals back on. I have some of those as well. __________________ Crummy deplorable

September 21, 2018, 09:39 PM	#45
HarlieJ1999 Member Join Date: February 27, 2018 Posts: 16	Project continues Reblueing is finished - the gunsmith did an excellent job. Gunsmith had some issues over the summer. Stock was refinished with 600 grit followed by 5 coats of TruOil. The scope I want to put on is a 6x18 Bushnell with a 50mm objective. Any suggestions on a scope base? I realize the objective is big but it's the scope I want to use. I'm looking at a base from S&K Mounts in Pennsylvania - probably will give them a call Monday. I'll post pics when it's done.