Close Combat

OneShotOnly! · May 28, 2007, 01:29 PM

What is the weapon of your choice for close combat?
Lets Poll!

armoredman · May 28, 2007, 01:30 PM

PPGMD · May 28, 2007, 01:41 PM

Probably not the best forum for this, but you need to fine parameters.

In some cases a handgun is best, in others a subgun would be better, and in others it would be a SBR rifle like an M-4 or a P90.

SteelCore · May 28, 2007, 02:02 PM

Yeah, I think it would depend on the situation and how close "close" is.

In many situations, and with unarmored opponents, I'd take a reliable semi-auto 12 gauge with 00 Buck for maximum stopping power and hit probability. (I know that shotguns need to be aimed, but I still think they're easiest long arm to quickly hit with.) The MP5 would be a better choice if collateral damage was a serious possibility.

If I was up against opponents wearing body armor, I think I'd take the G3 or one of the assault rifles with steel core ammo. The speed of handling wouldn't be the best, but penetration capability would become too important to ignore.

Jason_G · May 28, 2007, 03:55 PM

In order-
Unarmored tagets:

H&K MP5-10
12 ga with either 01 or 00 buck
H&K USP Tactical .45

Soft-armored targets:

G-3 or M-14 scout
P90
FN FiveseveN

Jason

PTR 91 · May 28, 2007, 04:19 PM

Well how close are we talking? If it's closer then five feet then my trusty tomahawk will work just fine.

raymond- · May 29, 2007, 01:11 AM

he has a pattern of asking these poorly constructed polls for the helluvit

OneShotOnly! · May 29, 2007, 03:00 PM

I am not sure if people are not aware of AKSU74 which is 5.45x39 caliber with 950rds per minute rate of fire. This perfect for combat in close places due to size and fire power.

oldbillthundercheif · May 29, 2007, 03:20 PM

That short AK-74 burpgun is certainly a monster, but the M4, AK47, and pretty much all of the rest would also do the job.

If the Thompson was on the list it would be easier for me to choose the best (or at least a modern .45 SMG like the UMP).

A shotgun should also be on the list somewhere.

SteelCore · May 29, 2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

I am not sure if people are not aware of AKSU74 which is 5.45x39 caliber with 950rds per minute rate of fire. This perfect for combat in close places due to size and fire power.

High rate of fire is good if the shooter can control the weapon and sticks to using controlled bursts. Sure, spraying a room wildly might hit someone, but if the hit isn't in a vital area and your mag suddenly runs empty (which will happen after ~2 seconds of full-auto), then you can be shot while changing mags or changing to your backup handgun.

I'd still prefer a 12 gauge with buckshot against unarmored foes. A reliable semi-auto (or even pump) shotgun will put lead out more quickly than just about anything. If you can shoot the shotgun, say, 2x per second, that's 18 pellets of .33 caliber per second. Killing (not just hitting) quickly is vital in CQB, and that's where the shotgun excels. (Alas, I still don't even own one.)

OneShotOnly! · May 30, 2007, 12:41 AM

Shotgun is not included in the list because it is not a combact weapon, but no doubt a good self defense weapon.

oldbillthundercheif · May 30, 2007, 01:35 AM

If you mean the shotgun is not a combat weapon, I think there are quite a few gunslingers fighting in various parts of the world as we speak that would disagree with you.

If you mean it's not a compact weapon, they are not usually any less compact than a full-length AR15, AK47, or AK74.

I've never heard of a "combact" rifle before, but it sounds great. I want one.

For "close combat", I think there are quite a few shotguns that would be well suited for that job if you mean the fighting is going to happen within 50 yards. Even at very close range firing one devestating shot could be just as good as half a dozen small rifle rounds.

M1A.... · May 30, 2007, 01:13 PM

MAC M11 A1 .380 smg

Small, lightweight, manuevarable, and fast.

In close quarters, it does the job.

BillCA · May 30, 2007, 01:32 PM

In CQB, why use a handgun cartridge when you can use a real rifle cartridge?

Why use a rifle cartridge when you can use a shotgun shell?

If I could find one that was still working my first option would be one of these

High-Standard Model 10 semi-auto bullpup shotgun (12 ga)

Current battle or tactical rifle that I think is best suited for CQB missions is this one;

FN's F2000 5.56mm SMG

OneShotOnly! · May 31, 2007, 01:03 AM

That FN 2000 look very good!

For close combat like I said before AKSU74 or MP5, but for those who also want power in the bullet nothing beats G3 the newer lighter models with folding stock. I think is G41 and G36. www.remtek.com.

clem · May 31, 2007, 01:23 AM

You did say "CLOSE COMBAT", right?

OneShotOnly! · May 31, 2007, 02:40 AM

Yes forgot to put axe on the list!

OneShotOnly! · May 31, 2007, 02:48 AM

What I meant by close combat was door to door fighting, or in a building. I hope this helps.

gdvan01 · May 31, 2007, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Shotgun is not included in the list because it is not a combact weapon, but no doubt a good self defense weapon.

Are you nuts? Does mom know you're on her computer again?

p99guy · May 31, 2007, 07:43 AM

a Paratrooper model FN M249, and Fragmentation Grenades

BillCA · May 31, 2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Shotgun is not included in the list because it is not a comba[]t weapon, but no doubt a good self defense weapon.

The shotgun is a highly effective tool. The only reason militaries don't typically use them is they have been prohibited by international treaty.

Also, figure this - an AR15/M16 holds 30 rounds (military configuration). An 8-shot 12 gauge with #00 buckshot can send down range: 8 rounds x 9 pellets = 72 projectiles.

PPGMD · May 31, 2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:

The shotgun is a highly effective tool. The only reason militaries don't typically use them is they have been prohibited by international treaty.

Say what? The US military has had quite a few combat shotguns over the years.

**Mal H** · June 1, 2007, 08:13 AM

Why in the world is the Walther PPK on that list??!!

OneShotOnly! · June 1, 2007, 08:22 AM

MAL ... it was a mistake. Should be MPK. Its a machine pistol size of an UZI.

....I ma surprised that M4 which is prime American Commando weapon is not getting any attention here. Is it because civilians in US do not have access to it or there is some other reason?

newerguy · June 1, 2007, 08:24 AM

If this is room to room, or door to door, and I can have an AK47, I can also have a 14 inch 12 gauge pump shotgun, with an inch or two cut off the stock, which leaves you with a very compact weapon that can be fired just like a fullsize shotgun, and puts more lead on target faster than a submachine gun.

View Poll Results: Close Combat Weapon
M4	8	38.10%
AKSU 74	4	19.05%
AK 47	7	33.33%
MP5	8	38.10%
Uzi	1	4.76%
Walther MPK	1	4.76%
Tavor	1	4.76%
Ak74	1	4.76%
G3 (folding stock)	4	19.05%
AR15	3	14.29%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

May 28, 2007, 01:29 PM	#1
OneShotOnly! Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: Next door Posts: 161	Close Combat What is the weapon of your choice for close combat? Lets Poll!

May 28, 2007, 02:02 PM	#4
SteelCore Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2007 Posts: 522	Yeah, I think it would depend on the situation and how close "close" is. In many situations, and with unarmored opponents, I'd take a reliable semi-auto 12 gauge with 00 Buck for maximum stopping power and hit probability. (I know that shotguns need to be aimed, but I still think they're easiest long arm to quickly hit with.) The MP5 would be a better choice if collateral damage was a serious possibility. If I was up against opponents wearing body armor, I think I'd take the G3 or one of the assault rifles with steel core ammo. The speed of handling wouldn't be the best, but penetration capability would become too important to ignore. __________________ "None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt

May 28, 2007, 03:55 PM	#5
Jason_G Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,902	In order- Unarmored tagets: H&K MP5-10 12 ga with either 01 or 00 buck H&K USP Tactical .45 Soft-armored targets: G-3 or M-14 scout P90 FN FiveseveN Jason

May 29, 2007, 01:11 AM	#7
raymond- Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 179	he has a pattern of asking these poorly constructed polls for the helluvit __________________ raymond- 47.5N 122.2W

May 28, 2007, 01:30 PM	#2
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,299

May 28, 2007, 01:41 PM	#3
PPGMD Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Posts: 348	Probably not the best forum for this, but you need to fine parameters. In some cases a handgun is best, in others a subgun would be better, and in others it would be a SBR rifle like an M-4 or a P90.

May 28, 2007, 04:19 PM	#6
PTR 91 Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2007 Posts: 264	Well how close are we talking? If it's closer then five feet then my trusty tomahawk will work just fine.

May 29, 2007, 03:00 PM	#8
OneShotOnly! Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: Next door Posts: 161	Aksu74 I am not sure if people are not aware of AKSU74 which is 5.45x39 caliber with 950rds per minute rate of fire. This perfect for combat in close places due to size and fire power.

May 29, 2007, 03:20 PM	#9
oldbillthundercheif Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,450	That short AK-74 burpgun is certainly a monster, but the M4, AK47, and pretty much all of the rest would also do the job. If the Thompson was on the list it would be easier for me to choose the best (or at least a modern .45 SMG like the UMP). A shotgun should also be on the list somewhere.

May 30, 2007, 12:41 AM	#11
OneShotOnly! Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: Next door Posts: 161	Shotgun Shotgun is not included in the list because it is not a combact weapon, but no doubt a good self defense weapon.

May 30, 2007, 01:35 AM	#12
oldbillthundercheif Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,450	If you mean the shotgun is not a combat weapon, I think there are quite a few gunslingers fighting in various parts of the world as we speak that would disagree with you. If you mean it's not a compact weapon, they are not usually any less compact than a full-length AR15, AK47, or AK74. I've never heard of a "combact" rifle before, but it sounds great. I want one. For "close combat", I think there are quite a few shotguns that would be well suited for that job if you mean the fighting is going to happen within 50 yards. Even at very close range firing one devestating shot could be just as good as half a dozen small rifle rounds.

May 30, 2007, 01:13 PM	#13
M1A.... Junior Member Join Date: October 22, 2006 Location: South Florida Posts: 1	MAC M11 A1 .380 smg Small, lightweight, manuevarable, and fast. In close quarters, it does the job.

May 30, 2007, 01:32 PM	#14
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	In CQB, why use a handgun cartridge when you can use a real rifle cartridge? Why use a rifle cartridge when you can use a shotgun shell? If I could find one that was still working my first option would be one of these High-Standard Model 10 semi-auto bullpup shotgun (12 ga) Current battle or tactical rifle that I think is best suited for CQB missions is this one; FN's F2000 5.56mm SMG __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

May 31, 2007, 01:03 AM	#15
OneShotOnly! Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: Next door Posts: 161	That FN 2000 look very good! For close combat like I said before AKSU74 or MP5, but for those who also want power in the bullet nothing beats G3 the newer lighter models with folding stock. I think is G41 and G36. www.remtek.com.

May 31, 2007, 01:23 AM	#16
clem Junior member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 847	You did say "CLOSE COMBAT", right?

May 31, 2007, 02:40 AM	#17
OneShotOnly! Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: Next door Posts: 161	Yes forgot to put axe on the list!

May 31, 2007, 02:48 AM	#18
OneShotOnly! Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: Next door Posts: 161	Close Combat What I meant by close combat was door to door fighting, or in a building. I hope this helps.

May 31, 2007, 07:43 AM	#20
p99guy Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area) Posts: 1,506	a Paratrooper model FN M249, and Fragmentation Grenades __________________ Lighten up Francis!.....;Actor Warren Oats, in the movie "Stripes"

June 1, 2007, 08:13 AM	#23
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	Why in the world is the Walther PPK on that list??!!

June 1, 2007, 08:22 AM	#24
OneShotOnly! Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: Next door Posts: 161	MAL ... it was a mistake. Should be MPK. Its a machine pistol size of an UZI. ....I ma surprised that M4 which is prime American Commando weapon is not getting any attention here. Is it because civilians in US do not have access to it or there is some other reason?

June 1, 2007, 08:24 AM	#25
newerguy Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2005 Posts: 218	If this is room to room, or door to door, and I can have an AK47, I can also have a 14 inch 12 gauge pump shotgun, with an inch or two cut off the stock, which leaves you with a very compact weapon that can be fired just like a fullsize shotgun, and puts more lead on target faster than a submachine gun.