357 mag for marlin lever

[DadsMod12]

I've loaded a few hundred rounds for my 380 and 9mm with no problems. Now I'm ready to start loading for my Marlin 1894 carbine. I've got the Lee 3 die set, the question is should I get the Lee factory crimp die? I'll be using 2400 and 158 grain xtp.

Thanks, Dan

[rc]

I prefer RCBS dies myself but to answer your questions, you don't need a factory crimp die if you are able to roll crimp with the ones you have. I only bought a couple of lee factory crimp dies to help crimp some 38 and 44 bullets that were not made with crimp groves. Most bullets have the groove so the factory crimp dies are not really mandatory.

[big al hunter]

I have the Lee 3 die set as well. And my Marlin 357 lever has no issues with my hand loads using theses dies. Give it a whirl with 4 or 5 rounds and see how it does. A moderate roll crimp seems to do well with 2400 and 158 powder coated cast bullets. I can't see it being any different for XTP's. I have loaded cast and XTP's in my 44 mag with equal results, also with a Lee 3 die set.

[TJB101]

I really like using the 4 die set for 357. Personal preference I guess.

[jetinteriorguy]

Get the Lee collet crimp die, it’s the only way to go. Much easier on brass, works better on coated bullets, and more tolerant of variable case length.

[Unclenick]

DadsMod12,

Yes, you want a crimp with any cartridge to be used in a tubular magazine. The reason is that when the gun fires, the inertia of the ammo in the magazine tends to hold it in place while the rest of the gun backs up a little. This compresses the magazine spring, and then when the gun's recoil slows, the spring slams the ammunition stack back into place. This can cause bullets to be hammered deeper into the case, shortening COL and thereby raising pressure during firing.

Jetinteriorguy has the right recommendation. Lee makes their Collet Style Crimp Die in 357 Magnum, though with the crimp cannelure in the XTP, you'll be able to use a roll crimp, too. If you go the roll crimp route, I recommend the Redding Profile Crimp Die.

[44 AMP]

I've been loading the .357 since the early 70s. Have had a Marlin .357 since the mid 80s. Loading is done with my original Lyman dies. I don't care for Lee dies. Not bashing them, I just don't like them. Never had a Lee "factory crimp" die, never needed one...

A couple of points about the Marlin carbine, one is that they are not very tolerant of over long loads feeding from the tube to the chamber. The other thing is that they can be "balky" feeding SWC bullets. There is a way to do it, but you shouldn't have that issue shooting XTPs.

2400 is THE powder. Magnum primers and a medium or heavier crimp. Do the crimp "right" done wrong it will bulge the case and can prevent chambering.

I recommend you check, and trim all cases to a uniform length. Sure, its a pain in the butt and lots of people will tell you they never trim pistol brass, etc. I uniform my cases, and seat and crimp in one step. That's been working well for me for nearly half a century now, I see no reason to change.

Top end loads from the carbine will run in the 1800fps+ range with 158s, maybe a bit more. 125s can be boosted to 2200fps BUT for most 125JHPs that's too fast. The heavier 158s do better, but to be certain, check with the maker for upper end limits.

Crimp is important. As Uncle Nick pointed out, tube mag rifles try to shove the bullet back into the case. You don't want that! Even light loads need a good crimp in a tube mag lever gun.
Good Luck and we're here for any questions you might have.

[Nick_C_S]

I have a Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag; and a Henry in 357 Mag. I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die for both (all my roll crimp ammo, actually). The Lee Collett Style Crimp die seems to have lots of fans here, so that tells me it's probably good. I believe you can't go wrong with either.

BTW, I had good luck loading 158 JHP's (and XTP's) with 2400; and use it a lot for my hot revolver rounds. But with the long barrels of the lever actions, I get much much better performance with W296 - about 100 f/s more. Accuracy seems to be about the same (my Henry is incredibly accurate no matter what I shoot through it).

Oddly (and of topic), I have much better accuracy with 2400 compared to W296 in my .44 Marlin (240 grainers). So I stick with 2400 for 44 Mag (revolver and rifle).

At any rate, as Unclenick explained, you want a robust crimp on your tubular magazine rifle ammo.

[Kram]

I crimp my .357 loads for all my lever guns, the reason has already been addressed...
I also use 2400 along with xtp bullets but I also like the Missouri RNFP bullets up to 180 grain. We've had good results with the 180gr Hi-tek rnfp bullets ...

[rc]

5.5 grains 231 with a 158 grain lead bullet is a nice mild plinking load that seems to perform well in rifles and pistols and that powder works fine in your other two calibers. More optimal loads for 357 use medium to slow powders like Blue Dot, AA7, Unique, 800x and if used in a dual handgun/carbine use I would suggest you pick a medium powder rather than H110 and similar as they don't really produce top speeds in handguns while the medium powders can get you to 80 to 90 percent the speed in the rifle. Also Blue dot and AA7 can be used in 9mm.

[44 AMP]

I would suggest you pick a medium powder rather than H110 and similar as they don't really produce top speeds in handguns

Where on earth did you get that idea???

[wild willy]

What press are you using I use a Lee 4 hole so I seat and crimp in separately.But I did it in one step for years works fine just easier to fine tune in two steps.2400 will work fine with regular or magnum primers.2400 and 158 gr. bullets either lead or jacketed is a good combo.Other shapes may work but the lead RNFP feeds fine in a Marlin

[T. O'Heir]

You regular seating die should crimp with no fuss. Use as light a crimp as you can. Just enough to hold the bullet in place under recoil.
Alliant's site doesn't list .357 rifle data using 2400 with jacketed bullets. They do list jacketed data under Handguns. And that will do nicely.

[44 AMP]

Use as light a crimp as you can. Just enough to hold the bullet in place under recoil.

Works for revolvers, not such a good idea in a tube magazine lever action. The force on the bullet is in the opposite direction from revolvers and includes spring pressure and the weight of rounds in the magazine.

A good FIRM crimp is best.

[Rifletom]

Agree with Kram on 2400 and Missouri 180gr rnfp Hi-tek bullets in a lever gun. They work!
.357 mag of course.

[rc]

Uhhh, my chronograph! In a 6 inch 686 there is not much velocity benefit from H110 over Blue Dot and 800x but it sure does put out the blast and thunder Now as a dedicated carbine load then H110 may be optimum for loading 357 magnum. Medium powders fall behind when barrels get longer than six inches.

[44 AMP]

In a 6 inch 686 there is not much velocity benefit from H110 over Blue Dot and 800x

OK, I find "not much" to be different from

I would suggest you pick a medium powder rather than H110 and similar as they don't really produce top speeds in handguns

Don't really produce top speeds in handguns.

How much is not much? A handful of fps is insignificant, but looking at a few decades worth of data, you find the slow powders, 2400, H110, W296 are always at the top end of the velocity group. Blue Dot often matches those speeds, in 6" and less, and Unique sometimes does, but usually tops out 1-200fps less. In longer barrels the difference is more pronounced.

Chronographing one gun tells you what that one gun does. It may, or may not match the general trend.

I've had the experience of chronographing the same ammo through 3 different 6" handguns and an 18" marlin carbine, there was a 100fps spread between the pistols and the carbine was 600fps faster than the slowest pistol. 125gr JHP and a case full of 2400.

There is no question that the slower powders produce the most blast and (usually) flash which might make a faster powder a better choice if velocities are close.

[rc]

I believe most of the commercial data where H110 and similar are way ahead is with 8 & 3/8 barrels. I've also used various powders in 32 magnum, 9mm and 40 cal for rifle and pistol.

In 32 mag and 9mm 231 peters out at around 1250fps from rifle length tubes but Blue Dot will get you to 1400+ in many cases. So I really am not talking with just 6 inch 357mag experience but with 4 inch 32 mag experience too.

[Unclenick]

The slow powders, you will notice, require heavier charge weights. This means they make a larger total gas quantity (the reason for the muzzle blast and added recoil). When optimally loaded, they will hold up pressure in the barrel better past the bullet position at the pressure peak, thus increasing the amount of acceleration occurring after the peak. It is the same reason they will match a faster powder's velocity at a lower peak pressure.

To make an apples-to-apples comparison, it is necessary to load all the powders under test to a matching peak pressure. The trick here is that many modern guns will handle more pressure than the SAAMI rating without giving pressure signs, and the slow powders have the limitation that, with their heavier charges, you cannot always fit enough into the case to match the peak pressures you might be getting to with the faster ones.

So, can you get higher velocities from medium powders than from magnum powders? You can by going to higher pressures.

[44 AMP]

So I really am not talking with just 6 inch 357mag experience but with 4 inch 32 mag experience too.

Not doubting your experience but since the OP states it will a Marlin Carbine using 2400 powder and 158 gr bullets, how is .32mag or 6" .357 experience helpful?

My experience shooting 125gr and 158gr jacketed bullets from the Marlin carbine using 2400 powder matches the Speer manual I took the loads from.

Top end loads push the 125s to the 2200fps range (where they are best used as varmint bullets) and the 158s into the 1800fps range where they still usually retain a degree of controlled expansion.

I do not know if the XTP bullets, will behave the same as the Rem and "no name" bullets I have used. Best to check with the maker for recommended top end velocity range and stick within that.