20 ga. flintlock fowler

reinert · October 31, 2020, 03:44 PM

I was just bequeathed a .20 ga. flintlock fowler (nice custom replica), and was thinking about shooting a turkey with it. I have a place where I can use lead shot, and was wondering about lead shot itself. I want to use #4 lead shot, and the supplier that has it advertises it as having a 2% antimony content in it. The antimony is just for keeping a uniform hardness in the pellets, right? This lead shot should be ok to use in the fowler, right? I guess those are my concerns right now, if they are concerns at all. I'd sure appreciate any comments regarding my questions.

Thanks for any potential help using the old flinter safely.

Jim Watson · October 31, 2020, 04:23 PM

You will be OK.
As I recall, pure lead, seldom seen any more, is "black" shot; 2% antimony is "chilled" shot, and 6% antimony is "magnum" shot.

Old Stony · October 31, 2020, 06:39 PM

2% antimony would be about right for that fowler. The antimony will help keep the shot from deforming under pressure and should give you a good pattern.

ligonierbill · October 31, 2020, 07:41 PM

No safety issues, but I suggest you consider #6 shot. You're shooting for the head and neck. The denser the pattern the better. The traditional "square load " of equal volumes of powder and shot is a good place to start. I use an 80 grain powder measure for FFg and shot (about an ounce). Typically, less powder and more shot delivers a better pattern.

reinert · October 31, 2020, 08:54 PM

Many thanks guys, many thanks indeed. I can't imagine my shot will be much beyond 20 yds. at the most. This kind of came up spur o' the moment, and the opportunity is a good one. Got the wads coming from Track, and was wondering on the lead shot. Many years ago, I had a Navy Arms magnum 12 ga. percussion double that I used to hunt pheasants. I'd use my powder measure set at 90 grns., (2f GOEX) and used the same 90 grn. measure to dole out the #5 shot. It worked really well on the ringnecks.

I was thinking maybe using the same method for a load on the fowler, using 70 or 80 grains of 2f GOEX and doing the same measure amount of shot from the measure set as my powder charge. Sounds like I might be on the right track. I'll consider that #6 shot suggestion, ligonierbill. Again, thanks guys, do appreciate it. I've got plenty of time to get my possibles in order to make a good load, too. Season ends December 31st.

Hawg · October 31, 2020, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reinert

Many thanks guys, many thanks indeed. I can't imagine my shot will be much beyond 20 yds. at the most. This kind of came up spur o' the moment, and the opportunity is a good one. Got the wads coming from Track, and was wondering on the lead shot. Many years ago, I had a Navy Arms magnum 12 ga. percussion double that I used to hunt pheasants. I'd use my powder measure set at 90 grns., (2f GOEX) and used the same 90 grn. measure to dole out the #5 shot. It worked really well on the ringnecks.

I was thinking maybe using the same method for a load on the fowler, using 70 or 80 grains of 2f GOEX and doing the same measure amount of shot from the measure set as my powder charge. Sounds like I might be on the right track. I'll consider that #6 shot suggestion, ligonierbill. Again, thanks guys, do appreciate it. I've got plenty of time to get my possibles in order to make a good load, too. Season ends December 31st.

Most traditional style muzzleloaders are cylinder bore. A square load is a good place to start. More powder than shot opens a pattern up. More shot than powder tightens a pattern.

darkgael · November 4, 2020, 08:07 AM

You might want to experiment a bit with what has become known as the “Skychief” load. It is detailed and discussed at length at the Muzzleloading forum. (Muzzleloadingforum.com....look for a sticky at the top of the hunting section)
The basic recipe is to load powder, nitro card, shot, overshot card, and then a heavily lubed cushion wad. Reports are glowing about its effectiveness from non-choked barrels. Pictures show very tight patterns.

Jim Watson · November 4, 2020, 10:17 AM

There is a guy here who reports good results with a thick fibre or felt wad on top of the load.

Pahoo · November 4, 2020, 11:00 AM

Quote:

There is a guy here who reports good results with a thick fibre or felt wad on top of the load.

By load, I assume you are referring to the over-shot or the last component you load into the bore. .... Right ???

Be Safe !!!

Jim Watson · November 4, 2020, 02:26 PM

Yes.

Hanshi · November 4, 2020, 04:03 PM

I've had a 20 ga flintlock for years and shoot it with lead ball (deer) and 2% shot for other stuff.

reinert · November 4, 2020, 05:38 PM

Wow, now that's a different twist on a shot load. I'll check that out on muzzleloader forums. My wads should be here this week, and I found a bag of #6 chilled lead shot, locally. I'll start playing as soon as I get the box from Track. I measured the bore at the muzzle, and it comes out at .615." Don't know who the barrel maker is, but there's the traditional, circled, sitting fox on the top flat of the 42" octagon, wedding band to round, tube. I really don't know at this point how much I'll shoot the piece, but I'm fairly certain I'll look for a .610 rb mould for it at some point down the road, just because. This gun was made in 1981, and has an L&R English pattern (fancy double throated cock) on it. Sparks really well, too. Kinda got it in mind it might be an old Curly Gostomski barrel. I believe he had North Star Trading Co. back in the day.

BTW, nice doe, Hanshi! Kudos.

reinert · November 5, 2020, 01:52 PM

What would’ve generally been how a shot load was put together back in the “day?” Powder, wad of wasp nest, shot, snug wadding of tow or homespun fabric over shot to hold it all together? Maybe a snug fitting pine cone would work as an over the shot wad? I would iimagine necessity and what was a available at the time made the needed load. (?) Thoughts? Researched historical references?

And BTW, that bag of #6 shot I found is magnum shot, so I guess that will have more antimony in it. As little as I plan on using the gun with shot, will that be an issue? I’ll always appreciate any info!

reinert · November 5, 2020, 06:23 PM

Finding some really good stuff on muzzleloader forum on the Skychief loadings mentioned. Lots of good info on most all and any other loadings for a front stuffing scattergun. Thanks for the tip, darkgael.

darkgael · November 12, 2020, 06:31 AM

Yr welcome.

bladesmith 1 · December 3, 2020, 02:34 PM

I found that anything thicker than a .028 [ or is it .032 ] overshot card will give you a hole in the center of the pattern. I tried some .062 cards and that's what happened to me. My copy of a Sears 1905 catalog even says to use the thin OS card or patterns will be disrupted. I'm not sure of the thinking using a thick heavily lube wad over the shot. I would think the shot would have to travel around it giving a hole in the pattern. Gonna have to check it out. The wasps nest "garbage" was tested in a recent Muzzle Blast [ NMLRA monthly mag ] by the Bevel Brothers and it was found it just didn't work. A tight seal over the powder was needed for any kind of decent load. I belong to the NMLRA and shot pistol, rifle, and shotgun [ trap ] since the early 1970s. At one time I had made a 8ga O/U and shot 4oz of shot and 400grs of 1F goose hunting. That gun was mistakenly sold and now I have 12ga SxS and a 12ga fowler I made left for shotguns. In tradegun matches you need a smoothbore flintlock with no rear sight. Most guys shot a 20 like pictured above. Both ball and shot are used in the matches. Four years ago I got my last deer with a 12ga matchlock I made. Took me two years to do it and now that gun hangs over the fireplace. A .715 RB at twenty yards and it didn't move. Muzzle loading shotguns are lots of fun to shoot.

darkgael · December 4, 2020, 08:38 AM

Another approach to assembling a workable load. From V.M. Starr (“The Muzzleloading Shotgun: Its care and use.”):

Quote:

I use only one kind of wads and those I cut from cardboard like display signs that are extra thick, about 3/32 is about right and use two of these on the powder and one on the shot. I have had several pretty wise gun men tell me that that is not enough wads before they saw the results but never have had one say a word further on the subject

bladesmith 1 · December 5, 2020, 12:06 PM

I read about jug choking years ago from V.M. Starr and followed his instructions on a muzzle loading trap gun I had made. It worked very well. The guys and I use to shoot trap at night down at Friendship when I had a camping spot along the rope behind the west trap range. We'd shoot pistol all day and trap at night. Those were the days. That camping spot is now gone for parking. They moved me over by the fence along the mail road to the range.

darkgael · December 6, 2020, 07:29 AM

Trap with a muzzleloader,. That has to be a sedate, relaxing, gentlemanly round.
How long does it take to shoot the 25 with a full squad?

October 31, 2020, 03:44 PM	#1
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	20 ga. flintlock fowler I was just bequeathed a .20 ga. flintlock fowler (nice custom replica), and was thinking about shooting a turkey with it. I have a place where I can use lead shot, and was wondering about lead shot itself. I want to use #4 lead shot, and the supplier that has it advertises it as having a 2% antimony content in it. The antimony is just for keeping a uniform hardness in the pellets, right? This lead shot should be ok to use in the fowler, right? I guess those are my concerns right now, if they are concerns at all. I'd sure appreciate any comments regarding my questions. Thanks for any potential help using the old flinter safely.

November 4, 2020, 08:07 AM	#7
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	You might want to experiment a bit with what has become known as the “Skychief” load. It is detailed and discussed at length at the Muzzleloading forum. (Muzzleloadingforum.com....look for a sticky at the top of the hunting section) The basic recipe is to load powder, nitro card, shot, overshot card, and then a heavily lubed cushion wad. Reports are glowing about its effectiveness from non-choked barrels. Pictures show very tight patterns. __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member Last edited by darkgael; November 4, 2020 at 08:16 AM.

November 4, 2020, 04:03 PM	#11
Hanshi Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2017 Posts: 239	I've had a 20 ga flintlock for years and shoot it with lead ball (deer) and 2% shot for other stuff. __________________ Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

November 4, 2020, 05:38 PM	#12
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	That's a different twist for a load Wow, now that's a different twist on a shot load. I'll check that out on muzzleloader forums. My wads should be here this week, and I found a bag of #6 chilled lead shot, locally. I'll start playing as soon as I get the box from Track. I measured the bore at the muzzle, and it comes out at .615." Don't know who the barrel maker is, but there's the traditional, circled, sitting fox on the top flat of the 42" octagon, wedding band to round, tube. I really don't know at this point how much I'll shoot the piece, but I'm fairly certain I'll look for a .610 rb mould for it at some point down the road, just because. This gun was made in 1981, and has an L&R English pattern (fancy double throated cock) on it. Sparks really well, too. Kinda got it in mind it might be an old Curly Gostomski barrel. I believe he had North Star Trading Co. back in the day. BTW, nice doe, Hanshi! Kudos.

November 12, 2020, 06:31 AM	#15
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Yr welcome. __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

October 31, 2020, 04:23 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	You will be OK. As I recall, pure lead, seldom seen any more, is "black" shot; 2% antimony is "chilled" shot, and 6% antimony is "magnum" shot.

October 31, 2020, 06:39 PM	#3
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	2% antimony would be about right for that fowler. The antimony will help keep the shot from deforming under pressure and should give you a good pattern.

October 31, 2020, 07:41 PM	#4
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	No safety issues, but I suggest you consider #6 shot. You're shooting for the head and neck. The denser the pattern the better. The traditional "square load " of equal volumes of powder and shot is a good place to start. I use an 80 grain powder measure for FFg and shot (about an ounce). Typically, less powder and more shot delivers a better pattern.

October 31, 2020, 08:54 PM	#5
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	Many thanks guys, many thanks indeed. I can't imagine my shot will be much beyond 20 yds. at the most. This kind of came up spur o' the moment, and the opportunity is a good one. Got the wads coming from Track, and was wondering on the lead shot. Many years ago, I had a Navy Arms magnum 12 ga. percussion double that I used to hunt pheasants. I'd use my powder measure set at 90 grns., (2f GOEX) and used the same 90 grn. measure to dole out the #5 shot. It worked really well on the ringnecks. I was thinking maybe using the same method for a load on the fowler, using 70 or 80 grains of 2f GOEX and doing the same measure amount of shot from the measure set as my powder charge. Sounds like I might be on the right track. I'll consider that #6 shot suggestion, ligonierbill. Again, thanks guys, do appreciate it. I've got plenty of time to get my possibles in order to make a good load, too. Season ends December 31st.

November 4, 2020, 10:17 AM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	There is a guy here who reports good results with a thick fibre or felt wad on top of the load.

November 4, 2020, 02:26 PM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Yes.

November 5, 2020, 01:52 PM	#13
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	What would’ve generally been how a shot load was put together back in the “day?” Powder, wad of wasp nest, shot, snug wadding of tow or homespun fabric over shot to hold it all together? Maybe a snug fitting pine cone would work as an over the shot wad? I would iimagine necessity and what was a available at the time made the needed load. (?) Thoughts? Researched historical references? And BTW, that bag of #6 shot I found is magnum shot, so I guess that will have more antimony in it. As little as I plan on using the gun with shot, will that be an issue? I’ll always appreciate any info!

November 5, 2020, 06:23 PM	#14
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	Finding some really good stuff on muzzleloader forum on the Skychief loadings mentioned. Lots of good info on most all and any other loadings for a front stuffing scattergun. Thanks for the tip, darkgael.

December 3, 2020, 02:34 PM	#16
bladesmith 1 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2018 Posts: 240	I found that anything thicker than a .028 [ or is it .032 ] overshot card will give you a hole in the center of the pattern. I tried some .062 cards and that's what happened to me. My copy of a Sears 1905 catalog even says to use the thin OS card or patterns will be disrupted. I'm not sure of the thinking using a thick heavily lube wad over the shot. I would think the shot would have to travel around it giving a hole in the pattern. Gonna have to check it out. The wasps nest "garbage" was tested in a recent Muzzle Blast [ NMLRA monthly mag ] by the Bevel Brothers and it was found it just didn't work. A tight seal over the powder was needed for any kind of decent load. I belong to the NMLRA and shot pistol, rifle, and shotgun [ trap ] since the early 1970s. At one time I had made a 8ga O/U and shot 4oz of shot and 400grs of 1F goose hunting. That gun was mistakenly sold and now I have 12ga SxS and a 12ga fowler I made left for shotguns. In tradegun matches you need a smoothbore flintlock with no rear sight. Most guys shot a 20 like pictured above. Both ball and shot are used in the matches. Four years ago I got my last deer with a 12ga matchlock I made. Took me two years to do it and now that gun hangs over the fireplace. A .715 RB at twenty yards and it didn't move. Muzzle loading shotguns are lots of fun to shoot.

December 5, 2020, 12:06 PM	#18
bladesmith 1 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2018 Posts: 240	I read about jug choking years ago from V.M. Starr and followed his instructions on a muzzle loading trap gun I had made. It worked very well. The guys and I use to shoot trap at night down at Friendship when I had a camping spot along the rope behind the west trap range. We'd shoot pistol all day and trap at night. Those were the days. That camping spot is now gone for parking. They moved me over by the fence along the mail road to the range.

December 6, 2020, 07:29 AM	#19
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Trap. Trap with a muzzleloader,. That has to be a sedate, relaxing, gentlemanly round. How long does it take to shoot the 25 with a full squad? __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member Last edited by darkgael; December 6, 2020 at 08:07 AM.

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