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Old February 7, 2018, 02:11 PM   #26
billvau
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fastbolt, there haven't been any other incidents of which I am aware. I found it kinda reassuring that these idiots went to a house almost directly across the street from me and range their doorbell. This was about 5-10 minutes after the cops left my house. And the neighbor answered his door, saw no one there, and he had no more incidents that night. That made it feel less that I was personally targeted for some reason.
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Old February 7, 2018, 02:14 PM   #27
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Hdwhit, that is exactly my thought.

As a side note, this incident helped another neighbor of mine to finally become a gun owner. His wife had always resisted the idea of a gun in her house, but when they heard my story, she gave in and he quickly bought a Glock.
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Old February 7, 2018, 02:30 PM   #28
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Ten ring, we have to add a bit to answering the door with a gun. There's a reason that peepholes are on doors. To gauge the appropriateness of the person ringing the bell.

Answering the door with a gun in hand is not a good idea, because it will make the poor jehova's ministers uncomfortable.

The rule to follow is that If you carry to the door, be discreet. if it's a bad guy you just gave away your secret, good guys won't like seeing your piece in your hand.

I know a guy who had fedx deliver to his home, and he answered the door with his pistol swinging from his right hand. Now consider the situation. He had an order coming in, it was shipped by fedx, he knew by the tracking that it was out for delivery, and best of all, he heard and saw the delivery truck. He shuffled and danced, trying to explain why he basically drew his gun on a uniformed delivery driver that he knew was coming.

The post office can refuse to ever deliver to an address again if there is a risk from pets, people, dangerous home or yard conditions, etc, these delivery services have no obligation to deliver, whether or not delivery has been paid for. Just like restaurants, they reserve the right to refuse service, and wagging your gun at the pizza guy is a bad idea.

Another guy I know always answers the door with a gun in hand, and sometimes opens it with the barrel pointed at whoever is in the doorway. That's downright stupid and violates the most basic rule of gun ownership, never point the thing where something can be damaged. I'm pretty sure that it will also violate judicial law, aiming a gun at someone is probably illegal in some places. It would be brandishing a deadly weapon.

Every piece of good information has some caveats. Things that belong, but weren't added in. Such as eat lots of fresh vegetables, but don't live on nothing but broccoli and lima beans. I talk to my wife, and if I don't give her an absolutely comprehensive lecture, she will take the single piece of advice I gave her, and not take it any further. as long as it works, she won't put any effort into refining what she was instructed with. My daughter is the same way. I told her to stop and look both ways when she got to a stop sign while riding her bike, and she generally just drove right through intersections without signs.
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Old February 7, 2018, 03:03 PM   #29
T. O'Heir
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The phone lines being ripped from the building does suggest more than a prankster. More like some punk looking for an empty house to break into.
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Old February 7, 2018, 03:29 PM   #30
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I was not there.Hindsight is 20/20. You are OK. That scores very high.

I worked several years as a night school custodian,usually alone. Its not unusuall for the schools to be targets of mischief,

For example,one night late I heard some odd noises.I looked out the window and saw a cable hanging down from the roof.It was moving. Then I saw someone was on the roof.
They were ripping the cables off the roof HVAC units for the salvage copper.

Had I given any indication I knew they were there,they would have run,when LEO showed up,they would not have been able to do much but write a report.

Instead,I told 911 it was in progress. The police arrived quietly.I let them in,led them to a roof access hatch.

4 perps arrested on the roof at gunpoint.

Draw your own conclusions.

FWIW,these perps were university students who did not appear to come from poverty. Mommy and Daddy ,I'm sure,were contacted by the University to explain "Your sons you have been paying many thousands of dollars to send to school have been expelled"...oh,and they may need bail. I'm sure they did enough damage to rack up a felony ....whether charged or not.
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Old February 7, 2018, 03:30 PM   #31
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Phone lines ripped from the building ? Good argument for wireless.
What would you be wearing at 2AM ? Good reason to wear something pockets.
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Old February 7, 2018, 04:48 PM   #32
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The phone repairman who reattached the wires the next day said he had never seen this before in his eight years on the job.
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Old February 7, 2018, 05:09 PM   #33
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It is not important that you understand their motivations
true... don't get all caught up in trying to make sense of it.
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Old February 7, 2018, 10:29 PM   #34
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The phone repairman who reattached the wires the next day said he had never seen this before in his eight years on the job.
Too much television?
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Old February 8, 2018, 12:48 AM   #35
In The Ten Ring
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briandg,

Do you lack all faith in your fellow forum members or are you just trolling?

Just like I expected everyone (including you) to know what a "second deadbolt" meant I also expected everyone to understand that some people actually wear clothes inside their homes and these clothes actually come with pockets. I now understand that's probably an earth-shattering concept where ever you are from but it's generally accepted in most parts of the world.

If you know people that have guns in hand when answering the door, ugh, I don't think I'd admit that. Maybe it's no wonder you assume everyone is on their level.....

Not all doors have peepholes and peepholes can't see around corners, the same corners the home invasion team backing up the person at the door is hiding behind.

Even when I'm expecting the pizza guy I have a gun on me, I have done that since I was 23 and first moved out on my own. It's a pretty simple and very effective way of making sure any unwanted guests can be "properly welcomed."

Last edited by In The Ten Ring; February 8, 2018 at 12:57 AM.
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Old February 8, 2018, 02:37 AM   #36
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I hope this problem passes for you and that you and your family remain safe. Lots of good advice here and thank you for sharing, we are all learning together.
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Old February 8, 2018, 08:39 AM   #37
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I think that you misread every thing I said.

There are morons out there, and we have a responsibility to share thinking with them. When those two fools passed on their stories the got a dressing down, you'd do the same when you meet a fool like that. That wasn't a lecture aimed at you or the well versed owner, but unless I'm mistaken, did the poster call 911 immediately? Have a peephole? Double deadbolt? Protected phone lines?

Everyone has their own level of door comfort, mine is pretty low. I have side Windows and can see the visitors quite well, and strangers aren't welcome at all. The pizza guy, FedEx,ups, mail, I set the gun on the bench by the door.

I don't have double bolts, a reinforced frame, or an armored phone line or alarm, and every time I am reminded, it's a good thing that reminds me that I don't.

One of the guys I know likes head shots on a man on the ground, talks about 'wet work', and opens his door holding a python, and he instructs others to do so. The other guy was proud that he scared the Fed ex guy, and we need to pass that on.

Do you know how many times I've gone to my door and found an unexpected police visit? Several, once it was because my stolen license plate was found on a stolen and wrecked car. I just got another visit last month, the guy was trying to serve a warrant with an incorrect address. Didn't want to open that door with a gun on my body, so after looking the guys over carefully, I set the pistol on the bench.

I don't troll.
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Old February 8, 2018, 08:54 AM   #38
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The television remark involved the cut line in a wireless world. Some people learned their skills watching television. Maybe that's why the guys hunted out the phone line to cut it.

It's possible that the guy had watched too many horror movies and was just pulling a prank. He rang the bell at an insanely late hour and vanished. A normal response in the movies would be to call, and find a cut line. He tried other doors and wasn't seen. He was fully aware that the owner was probably there.

Sounds a bit like a movie that involved a blond teenager.

Just another comment, my branch lines are at the very end of the line and they were installed in the twenties. We have outages several times a year. Since we use the land line only when one of two people call, it could go unnoticed for a week. If I couldn't call out, I'd suspect that another squirrel ate the lines again.
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Old February 8, 2018, 09:49 AM   #39
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If they stay outside, it’s 911. If they don’t, it’s unfortunate.
Make that, "If they stay outside, it's 911. I they don't, it's 1911...........

Since they also hassled your neighbor, I suspect some kids playing the "ring and run". Way back when I was a kid, it was a popular prank; now, it could easily get you killed.
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Old February 8, 2018, 10:19 AM   #40
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Since they also hassled your neighbor, I suspect some kids playing the "ring and run". Way back when I was a kid, it was a popular prank; now, it could easily get you killed.
That assumption ignores the cut phone lines. A ring in the middle of the night...sure, could be kids prankin around. Cutting the phone lines seems a pretty clear intent to disable an alarm system. That is what sets it apart from a prank
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Old February 8, 2018, 12:13 PM   #41
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Were they cut or pulled?
It isn't impossible for a youth to decide to break something fragile while bored in the middle of the night.

I'd still take it more seriously.

I know this isn't the first thread in which I have taken a stand against double key deadbolts, but...
Quote:
Building code is quite clear on this issue. All means of egress (ways to get out of the house), such as windows and doors, must be operable from the inside without the use of special knowledge or tools. This is not an arbitrary code, or a code designed to make manufacturers money. This code is written in blood.
https://www.angieslist.com/articles/...locks-safe.htm
People really do die in fires because of double key dead bolts. It could just as easily be the owner bleeding out on the lawn because he/she couldn't get the door open and had to climb through the broke window. In a forum where it is generally accepted flicking off a safety is a fine motor movement that will be more difficult in a high stress situation...

Not pretty:
https://www.amazon.com/Doorricade-10.../dp/B007R6CALC
Much more attractive:
https://www.banggood.com/Home-Gate-S...r_warehouse=CN

You would be surprised at how much more difficult kicking a door in becomes those little pins make at top and bottom of door. Having three point is a huge advantage. There are other systems where top and bottom pins are linked in one piece and operated from mid door. The round pins slide easily into a drilled hole. The square ones take some mortise work for no extra benefit.
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Old February 8, 2018, 01:29 PM   #42
fastbolt
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Originally Posted by T. O'Heir View Post
The phone lines being ripped from the building does suggest more than a prankster. More like some punk looking for an empty house to break into.
Maybe. Maybe not.

Petty vandalism, such as pulling off the easily seen external phone line, might be to let them annoy the resident without police being called on them.

In other words, not a stupid child prank, but a stupid older/young person prank. Like removing someone's tire valve stems.
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Old February 8, 2018, 01:32 PM   #43
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it does not cost anything to err on the side of seeing this behavior as likely being a prelude to a larger crime. Sure.. it may not be but what do you lose by being vigilant?

Its a little different story if this is in fact a prelude to a more involved crime and its simply shrugged off as childish hijinks.

I know that I said don't over think it but even a cursory consideration would suggest that a knock prank at 2am is counter productive to what a knock prank is. You want a response... you don't want to sit around for 30 minutes waiting for someone to respond to the knock. You also don't want someone calling the cops which only compounds the likelihood that you will get caught. A knock prank does not usually involve ripping of phone lines.

.. I don't think this was a hijinks.
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Old February 8, 2018, 01:35 PM   #44
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You can call me sick but I would get my Mossberg Mariner and take a seat where I could cover the door from inside the house, then unlock the door and wait. You have to get them in the house before shooting.
I did something similar when I was 22. I grew up and got a lot smarter since then.
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Old February 8, 2018, 01:52 PM   #45
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I do not consider wanting to shoot someone to be a prudent part of any home defense plan.
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Old February 8, 2018, 03:11 PM   #46
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I think that good fences make for good neighbors.

I have our home completely fenced and the driveway gated. So anyone at my front door that I didn't let in is trespassing.

I have an intercom at the driveway gate. Push the button and the house landline rings and we can talk, like civilized human beings.
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Old February 8, 2018, 04:01 PM   #47
In The Ten Ring
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People really do die in fires because of double key dead bolts. It could just as easily be the owner bleeding out on the lawn because he/she couldn't get the door open and had to climb through the broke window. In a forum where it is generally accepted flicking off a safety is a fine motor movement that will be more difficult in a high stress situation...

I recall a similar argument against the new seat belt law. Put in two deadbolts, one regular and one double, and get into the habit of unlocking the double when you're home. It's really not that hard of a habit to develop, maybe too hard for Angie's List users though.

joed,

When my house was targeted I considered what you are suggesting. But there was this.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/montana...in-his-garage/

Now what this guy did was much more than just sitting in one's house and waiting. It's terrible that the country is in this drug epidemic, it's not like it used to be and my local sheriff's department told me so. To use that detective's words "it's everywhere, every county, all over the state."

A few years ago but just before local houses began to be broken into, I was woke up by a loud banging on my back door. I couldn't figure out if it was a dream or not but I picked up the 1911 and flashlight, and made a check of all the doors and windows. In case any members are wondering I did not go outside, I know better than that.

It happened again around 5 AM but I was too lazy to check that time. It wasn't long after, a house two doors down had a door kicked in. I went that day and put EZ Armor into my back door jamb. I now have that on all doors and I plan it for all my rental properties also. At some point, all owners will rent to a lady escaping from her violent X.

Last edited by In The Ten Ring; February 8, 2018 at 04:12 PM.
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Old February 8, 2018, 04:53 PM   #48
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I have pea gravel around the house as a walkway - you CANNOT walk on that without making sounds; thorny bushes under windows discourages entry there; a LOUD nasty-sounding dog also acts as a great deterrent......
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Old February 8, 2018, 05:03 PM   #49
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Yeh - I have a little VERY barky terrier. People would laugh at it.

The Pinscher / Cattle Dog mix - she is a very quiet dog... AND FAST
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Old February 8, 2018, 11:35 PM   #50
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The story from Montana? Planned, deliberate homicide. Firing four rounds of (buckshot?) Into a confined space with full knowledge that a person was inside that confined space. He may believe that randomly shooting into a dark place with no absolute knowledge of where his target was makes it okay. The thing that makes it bad was that he purposely set the entire scenario up, and couldn't even be certain that he caught the right rat in the trap.

That was a revenge murder imo and that is almost certainly what the prosecution is going use.
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