Out of my element a little... loading .410 shot shells... couple ???

Magnum Wheel Man · October 12, 2009, 07:57 AM

so I'm pretty well versed in the loading of metalic cartridges, but lately I've been shooting more .410 ( trying to thin the "herd" of those pesky little red pine squirrels, that seem to never stop long enough to shoot with a rifle )... the cost of .410, I could shoot 12 ga cheaper, which would be way over kill for the littlest of tree rats...

part of the stuff I got from my father in law, included a couple shot shell loading presses, a MEC set up for .410, & a Lee Load All set up for 12 ga... I was never around when he loaded shot shell, & have never witness anyone else loading them... my local loading mentor has never loaded .410, but has loaded 12 ga... he is looking over the press, & seems to think everything is functional, though it has not been used in 15 years or so...

so...the ???

where does one get husks that are worth reloading ??? I have a couple boxes worth of Federal once fired hulls, but the ends have all split... none of the normal internet haunts has any hulls that I'm familiar with... maybe the .410 is not as reloadable, because of the smaller diameter causes them to split easier than streching like a 12 ga ????

I would have thought that 209 primer would have been the norm, but seems there are some that take metric primers ???

how about Lil Gun powder... I have some I was expiriementing with for metalic cartridges, but after hearing about barrel burning problems I switched to H-110... but I have a couple pounds of Lil Gun left, & it was designed for .410, but the Hogdon website doesn't have load data for the .410 using it ???

the biggest problem seems to be finding Hulls... Midway looks to only stock BPI & in reading the comments, someone complained about loose primer pockets ( I see there are primer pocket swager tools available... is this a necessary tool ??? ), or Chedite ( sounds kinda cheesy to me ) are available from a couple other on line suppliers

any help sorting the data, & suggestions for components would be greatly appreciated... thanks...

oneounceload · October 12, 2009, 08:34 AM

Husks?? I take it you mean the hulls- typically, the best way I have found to acquire hulls is to go to your local gun club and see if anyone is selling once-fired. If not, then go to your local store and buy TARGET best-quality - loads. That would be the Winchester AA's, Remington STS or Nitro. Shoot those and then you'll have a nice supply of once-fired hulls to use. BTW, you can reload these many times if your load isn't TOO hot. You'll need primers, standard 209's will work - although as you mentioned, some of the Euro 209's ARE slightly larger. You can use them, but understand, that when you do that, they will stretch the primer pocket ever so slightly so that you will have to continue to use them.

Lyman has a shotgun reloading book - suggest you find one and buy it. You can also get load data from the various powder maker sites. Find a recipe and stick to it. There ARE wads that can be substituted for Winchester, Federal, and Remington that are half the cost - Claybuster, Downrange, etc. As long as you're using their clone for the recipe wad, you're fine.

410 and 28 really benefit from reloading, especially from a cost standpoint.

BigJimP · October 12, 2009, 11:59 AM

Any decent reloading manual has load recipes for Hodgdon Lil Gun and H110 in .410 . Personally, my preferred reload is using Rem 2 1/2" STS hulls, Win 209 primer, WAA41 wad and 12.9 gr of Lil Gun ( for 1200 fps ) - and I load 1/2 oz of 9's .

You can't swap primers - even if they are all 209's - like you do in metallic ( where small pistol primers are all the same ). Win 209, are different from Rem 209's, etc ...

Watch out on Winchester hulls - there are a lot of HS hulls out there - and they take a special wad.

Honestly, in terms of hulls, I'd recommend you go buy 2 or 3 boxes of Remington STS factory loads - shoot them up / then keep and reload them...

Hodgdon Books have loads for Chedite, Federal, Remington and Win hulls ... all with Lil Gun and H110 recipes ..... and in 2 1/2" and 3" hulls ( make sure you are using the hull that fits your gun ) - my .410 O/U is a 2 1/2" chamber - and you can always shoot 2 1/2" shells in a 3" gun / but you can't shoot 3" shells in a gun chambered for 2 1/2" shells.

oneounceload · October 12, 2009, 01:35 PM

BigJim - are you getting a decent number of reloads from your STS in the small gauges? Down here, between myself a slew of others who load 28 and 410, we are seeing the STS last MAYBE 3-4 loadings while the AAHS hulls are lasting 10-12. Now, in 12 and 20, the STS currently seems to be getting the nod. My 28's get burnt and brittle real fast and I the crimp is typically swirled and not as good as the AAHS hull

Magnum Wheel Man · October 12, 2009, 02:44 PM

so nobody sells Winchester AA Hulls... new or once fired ???

BigJimP · October 12, 2009, 03:05 PM

Remington went thru some issues on the plastic hulls on their STS breaking inside the brass base / especially on the 28ga. So for awhile on 28ga STS hulls, I was only getting 3 - 4 reloads - but now they seem to be giving me 8 - 10 reloads before they crack.

I see guys with the new Win HS hulls - and they're only getting 3 - 4 reloads on a 28ga especially / and they don't get much better on the HS hulls in 20ga or 12ga either.

On 20ga / and 12ga - the STS hulls are almost impossible to crack .... especially in 12ga, I've got some I've reloaded 20+ times / they still won't crack - but I toss them just because they start looking "nasty".

On .410's STS / don't seem to last much more than 4 - 5 reloads...
------------------------------
Does anyone sell once fired hulls - sure .....most gun clubs do / and a lot of internet sites like guns america will have them from time to time .... but you'll often have to pay $ 3.00 for 25 once fired hulls in .410 ( or about $ 0.12each ) ..... plus shipping, etc ..
---------------------
You didn't say how much shooting you're going to do with the .410 / but if you're not shooting at least 20 boxes a year / I'm not sure I would fuss with reloading them at all ...

oneounceload · October 12, 2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

so nobody sells Winchester AA Hulls... new or once fired ???

Check your local gun club, especially if they have a lot of skeet shooters - you might be able to find some. They are available sometimes here and there on the web, but then you have to add shipping, and 28's are running around .15 each now as it is

Magnum Wheel Man · October 12, 2009, 04:46 PM

I found a place that has 500 Winchester AA .410 hulls, so I got that part worked out...

is there a most often suggested primer for these hulls ??? I have about 300-400 "name brand" wads, but don't remember what they are off the top of my head...

any "special" crimp tools that help the hulls last longer ???

are Federal hulls crappy ??? or any particular reason why my once fired Federals are splitting at the crimp ??? ( they are 3" hulls, most often fired in a 16" 45-Colt / .410 Contender ) the rifling, or chamber mouth have anything to do with that ??? ( maybe 2.5" would hold up better ??? )

BigJimP · October 12, 2009, 06:14 PM

You need to know if the Win hulls are - the old AA plastic / or the newer plastic AA-HS hulls ( they should be marked ). I don't know if Winchester is making the newer AA-HS hulls in 3" or just 2 1/2".

You need to match your wad to the hull / each of the hulls will take a different wad. You need to know which wad you have....

In terms of primers Win 209 or Rem 209P will probably work.

The amount of powder you need will be different for the old AA's vs the newer AA-HS hulls.

Your press will crimp the hull - so no, no special tools needed - but the press will probably have to be adjusted for the hull you pick. Depending on which Mec press model you have / some presses resize the brass and some don't - that may be a big factor in terms of getting the finished shells to chamber or cycle in your gun.

Is your gun chambered in 2 1/2" or 3" - the barrel should be marked. It doesn't matter what the shells were fired in / but you can't shoot 3" shells in a gun chambered in 2 1/2". What is the make and model of the guy you're using ?

I don't have much experience with Fedeal plastic hulls - but in general, I don't see anyone reloading Federals / but they might be fine - but you don't want them if they're already split or cracked either.

snipecatcher · October 12, 2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

I found a place that has 500 Winchester AA .410 hulls, so I got that part worked out...

A perfect example of why you can never save money by reloading. Got a squirrel to shoot? No problem, let me just go pick up a few things...

Not trying to bust your balls, I do the same thing.

Magnum Wheel Man · October 13, 2009, 06:42 AM

Thanks for the tips & information guys... I can check on the HS on the hulls...

99% of my .410 shooting is done in that 16" Contender format, it's chambered for 3" shells, & is a rifled barrel, with the straightening choke tube in the end of the barrel...it's very quick on target for the fast lil red squirrels & local rabbit population, & seems to pattern pretty well out to 25 - 30 yards or so... both the rabbits & red pine squirrels I've been at war with, since we moved into my wifes family farm... we plant 50-60 trees a year, & lose about 5% of them to either rabbits or deer every year... the deer are targets of oportunity, since they are gone as soon as the crops come out... but the rabbits took over my pheasant habitat ( brush piles ) I was building & bloomed in the couple years we started reworking the farm site, so much so, that I had to quit doing brush piles at the edge of the woods, & begain burning all my brush several years ago... we have alot of walnut trees, & I've been planting other fruit & nut trees, & the mean & pesky red pine squirrels have settled into the pines with a good food source from the nut trees... I used to like to hunt squirrels as a kid, & would like to develope a population of larger greys, or maybe even get back the really large red fox squirrels that used to be there when I met my wife, & that have since been run off by the little pine squirrels...

so I could go out & shoot 4-5 shells a week, at just farm yard pests...

I've also been building coach guns out of ( strong action ) old exposed hammer shotguns, & my next project will be a .410 side by side that I'll be building for my wife to use...

since I have a couple of these coach guns built in 12 ga, I should get the 12 ga loading press going too... but I'm hurting for space in my loading area as it is

oneounceload · October 13, 2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

we have alot of walnut trees

Hopefully, if you're getting rid of them, you're selling the wood for gun stocks!...

IF you're only shooting a few shots per week and not for hunting or targets, you might be better off just buying a flat of target 410's and after shooting them, selling the hulls to a reloader

Magnum Wheel Man · October 13, 2009, 08:50 AM

I would agree with that, except I already have 400-500 lbs of shot in various sizes, already have "a" couple presses that appear to be set up already... several bags of wads for both .410 & 12 ga

quite a few 12 ga hulls... just not any useable .410 hulls

I also enjoy shooting & reloading, ( I already reload more than 40 metalic cartridges ) including shot capsule cartridges for 38 / 357 & 44 caliber handguns

... & ya know if the poo hits the air circulation device, I'd have to be able to reload the shot shells

anyway... I'm willing to make the investment in time & money to do my own shot shells... just don't have any expirience with actually loading shot shells yet... but I also fully understand the strict reciepes & the variations in the components, & their relationship to chamber pressures...

BigJimP · October 13, 2009, 10:06 AM

My vote - is you should give it a try then / you're going into it with your eyes open. Have some fun with it.

oneounceload · October 13, 2009, 12:11 PM

Sounds like you're committed to doing it - so go for it.....One word of caution - 410's can be persnickety when dropping powder and shot - go slow at first to make sure you don't bridge a charge and then make a mess. One hint I found noteworthy - get some plastic trays (like from the fast food joints), and mount your press to your bench on top of them. That way, WHEN you have a spill, (we've all been there), the tray will catch the powder and shot and keep it contained

October 12, 2009, 07:57 AM	#1
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Out of my element a little... loading .410 shot shells... couple ??? so I'm pretty well versed in the loading of metalic cartridges, but lately I've been shooting more .410 ( trying to thin the "herd" of those pesky little red pine squirrels, that seem to never stop long enough to shoot with a rifle )... the cost of .410, I could shoot 12 ga cheaper, which would be way over kill for the littlest of tree rats... part of the stuff I got from my father in law, included a couple shot shell loading presses, a MEC set up for .410, & a Lee Load All set up for 12 ga... I was never around when he loaded shot shell, & have never witness anyone else loading them... my local loading mentor has never loaded .410, but has loaded 12 ga... he is looking over the press, & seems to think everything is functional, though it has not been used in 15 years or so... so...the ??? where does one get husks that are worth reloading ??? I have a couple boxes worth of Federal once fired hulls, but the ends have all split... none of the normal internet haunts has any hulls that I'm familiar with... maybe the .410 is not as reloadable, because of the smaller diameter causes them to split easier than streching like a 12 ga ???? I would have thought that 209 primer would have been the norm, but seems there are some that take metric primers ??? how about Lil Gun powder... I have some I was expiriementing with for metalic cartridges, but after hearing about barrel burning problems I switched to H-110... but I have a couple pounds of Lil Gun left, & it was designed for .410, but the Hogdon website doesn't have load data for the .410 using it ??? the biggest problem seems to be finding Hulls... Midway looks to only stock BPI & in reading the comments, someone complained about loose primer pockets ( I see there are primer pocket swager tools available... is this a necessary tool ??? ), or Chedite ( sounds kinda cheesy to me ) are available from a couple other on line suppliers any help sorting the data, & suggestions for components would be greatly appreciated... thanks... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

October 12, 2009, 02:44 PM	#5
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	so nobody sells Winchester AA Hulls... new or once fired ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

October 12, 2009, 04:46 PM	#8
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I found a place that has 500 Winchester AA .410 hulls, so I got that part worked out... is there a most often suggested primer for these hulls ??? I have about 300-400 "name brand" wads, but don't remember what they are off the top of my head... any "special" crimp tools that help the hulls last longer ??? are Federal hulls crappy ??? or any particular reason why my once fired Federals are splitting at the crimp ??? ( they are 3" hulls, most often fired in a 16" 45-Colt / .410 Contender ) the rifling, or chamber mouth have anything to do with that ??? ( maybe 2.5" would hold up better ??? ) __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

October 13, 2009, 06:42 AM	#11
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Thanks for the tips & information guys... I can check on the HS on the hulls... 99% of my .410 shooting is done in that 16" Contender format, it's chambered for 3" shells, & is a rifled barrel, with the straightening choke tube in the end of the barrel...it's very quick on target for the fast lil red squirrels & local rabbit population, & seems to pattern pretty well out to 25 - 30 yards or so... both the rabbits & red pine squirrels I've been at war with, since we moved into my wifes family farm... we plant 50-60 trees a year, & lose about 5% of them to either rabbits or deer every year... the deer are targets of oportunity, since they are gone as soon as the crops come out... but the rabbits took over my pheasant habitat ( brush piles ) I was building & bloomed in the couple years we started reworking the farm site, so much so, that I had to quit doing brush piles at the edge of the woods, & begain burning all my brush several years ago... we have alot of walnut trees, & I've been planting other fruit & nut trees, & the mean & pesky red pine squirrels have settled into the pines with a good food source from the nut trees... I used to like to hunt squirrels as a kid, & would like to develope a population of larger greys, or maybe even get back the really large red fox squirrels that used to be there when I met my wife, & that have since been run off by the little pine squirrels... so I could go out & shoot 4-5 shells a week, at just farm yard pests... I've also been building coach guns out of ( strong action ) old exposed hammer shotguns, & my next project will be a .410 side by side that I'll be building for my wife to use... since I have a couple of these coach guns built in 12 ga, I should get the 12 ga loading press going too... but I'm hurting for space in my loading area as it is __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

October 13, 2009, 08:50 AM	#13
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I would agree with that, except I already have 400-500 lbs of shot in various sizes, already have "a" couple presses that appear to be set up already... several bags of wads for both .410 & 12 ga quite a few 12 ga hulls... just not any useable .410 hulls I also enjoy shooting & reloading, ( I already reload more than 40 metalic cartridges ) including shot capsule cartridges for 38 / 357 & 44 caliber handguns ... & ya know if the poo hits the air circulation device, I'd have to be able to reload the shot shells anyway... I'm willing to make the investment in time & money to do my own shot shells... just don't have any expirience with actually loading shot shells yet... but I also fully understand the strict reciepes & the variations in the components, & their relationship to chamber pressures... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

October 12, 2009, 08:34 AM	#2
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Husks?? I take it you mean the hulls- typically, the best way I have found to acquire hulls is to go to your local gun club and see if anyone is selling once-fired. If not, then go to your local store and buy TARGET best-quality - loads. That would be the Winchester AA's, Remington STS or Nitro. Shoot those and then you'll have a nice supply of once-fired hulls to use. BTW, you can reload these many times if your load isn't TOO hot. You'll need primers, standard 209's will work - although as you mentioned, some of the Euro 209's ARE slightly larger. You can use them, but understand, that when you do that, they will stretch the primer pocket ever so slightly so that you will have to continue to use them. Lyman has a shotgun reloading book - suggest you find one and buy it. You can also get load data from the various powder maker sites. Find a recipe and stick to it. There ARE wads that can be substituted for Winchester, Federal, and Remington that are half the cost - Claybuster, Downrange, etc. As long as you're using their clone for the recipe wad, you're fine. 410 and 28 really benefit from reloading, especially from a cost standpoint.

October 12, 2009, 11:59 AM	#3
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Any decent reloading manual has load recipes for Hodgdon Lil Gun and H110 in .410 . Personally, my preferred reload is using Rem 2 1/2" STS hulls, Win 209 primer, WAA41 wad and 12.9 gr of Lil Gun ( for 1200 fps ) - and I load 1/2 oz of 9's . You can't swap primers - even if they are all 209's - like you do in metallic ( where small pistol primers are all the same ). Win 209, are different from Rem 209's, etc ... Watch out on Winchester hulls - there are a lot of HS hulls out there - and they take a special wad. Honestly, in terms of hulls, I'd recommend you go buy 2 or 3 boxes of Remington STS factory loads - shoot them up / then keep and reload them... Hodgdon Books have loads for Chedite, Federal, Remington and Win hulls ... all with Lil Gun and H110 recipes ..... and in 2 1/2" and 3" hulls ( make sure you are using the hull that fits your gun ) - my .410 O/U is a 2 1/2" chamber - and you can always shoot 2 1/2" shells in a 3" gun / but you can't shoot 3" shells in a gun chambered for 2 1/2" shells.

October 12, 2009, 01:35 PM	#4
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	BigJim - are you getting a decent number of reloads from your STS in the small gauges? Down here, between myself a slew of others who load 28 and 410, we are seeing the STS last MAYBE 3-4 loadings while the AAHS hulls are lasting 10-12. Now, in 12 and 20, the STS currently seems to be getting the nod. My 28's get burnt and brittle real fast and I the crimp is typically swirled and not as good as the AAHS hull

October 12, 2009, 03:05 PM	#6
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Remington went thru some issues on the plastic hulls on their STS breaking inside the brass base / especially on the 28ga. So for awhile on 28ga STS hulls, I was only getting 3 - 4 reloads - but now they seem to be giving me 8 - 10 reloads before they crack. I see guys with the new Win HS hulls - and they're only getting 3 - 4 reloads on a 28ga especially / and they don't get much better on the HS hulls in 20ga or 12ga either. On 20ga / and 12ga - the STS hulls are almost impossible to crack .... especially in 12ga, I've got some I've reloaded 20+ times / they still won't crack - but I toss them just because they start looking "nasty". On .410's STS / don't seem to last much more than 4 - 5 reloads... ------------------------------ Does anyone sell once fired hulls - sure .....most gun clubs do / and a lot of internet sites like guns america will have them from time to time .... but you'll often have to pay $ 3.00 for 25 once fired hulls in .410 ( or about $ 0.12each ) ..... plus shipping, etc .. --------------------- You didn't say how much shooting you're going to do with the .410 / but if you're not shooting at least 20 boxes a year / I'm not sure I would fuss with reloading them at all ...

October 12, 2009, 06:14 PM	#9
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	You need to know if the Win hulls are - the old AA plastic / or the newer plastic AA-HS hulls ( they should be marked ). I don't know if Winchester is making the newer AA-HS hulls in 3" or just 2 1/2". You need to match your wad to the hull / each of the hulls will take a different wad. You need to know which wad you have.... In terms of primers Win 209 or Rem 209P will probably work. The amount of powder you need will be different for the old AA's vs the newer AA-HS hulls. Your press will crimp the hull - so no, no special tools needed - but the press will probably have to be adjusted for the hull you pick. Depending on which Mec press model you have / some presses resize the brass and some don't - that may be a big factor in terms of getting the finished shells to chamber or cycle in your gun. Is your gun chambered in 2 1/2" or 3" - the barrel should be marked. It doesn't matter what the shells were fired in / but you can't shoot 3" shells in a gun chambered in 2 1/2". What is the make and model of the guy you're using ? I don't have much experience with Fedeal plastic hulls - but in general, I don't see anyone reloading Federals / but they might be fine - but you don't want them if they're already split or cracked either.

October 13, 2009, 10:06 AM	#14
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	My vote - is you should give it a try then / you're going into it with your eyes open. Have some fun with it.

October 13, 2009, 12:11 PM	#15
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Sounds like you're committed to doing it - so go for it.....One word of caution - 410's can be persnickety when dropping powder and shot - go slow at first to make sure you don't bridge a charge and then make a mess. One hint I found noteworthy - get some plastic trays (like from the fast food joints), and mount your press to your bench on top of them. That way, WHEN you have a spill, (we've all been there), the tray will catch the powder and shot and keep it contained