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Old April 2, 2020, 05:39 PM   #1
montana09
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Case Lubing timeline

I have what might be an odd question. I'm new to reloading bottleneck rifle cartridges, currently have dies for .270 win and 7mm Mauser. I'm pretty experienced with carbide dies and straight walled pistol cartridges so before this I've never had to lube the cases. I'm using just a single stage Lee press with Pacesetter dies and Lee Lubricant. I plan to lube and deprime a bunch of brass, then load up 5 rounds in each caliber to test before loading up a full batch (I plan to start with mild loads using H4350). How long can the lube stay on the case before it needs to be reapplied, as in I plan to load these 5, set the others aside in a container and after I know I got it right load up the rest. It would probably be about a week or so all things considered. When I go to load the rest is the lube on there good or needing a refresher? Thanks and any suggestions about a better lube would be appreciated!
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Old April 2, 2020, 05:47 PM   #2
FrankenMauser
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Lube loves holding on to dirt, dust, and other unfriendly (abrasive) particles.
Leaving lubed brass sitting around is not too far off from sweeping the floor and then dumping it over the brass, in my opinion.

Once the cases are sized, the lube is no longer required.
Clean them up and let them sit. (Clean and dry.)
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Old April 2, 2020, 05:52 PM   #3
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Depends on the lube and environment. Some will be fine even after the carrier is gone. Some only last for about 30 minutes.

You really only need the lube for full length sizing, and you only do that once. I put about 2 handfuls of brass in sturdy 8" x 8" box and spray for about 7 seconds while shaking the box.

Then tumble in corn cob with polish.
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Old April 2, 2020, 06:01 PM   #4
montana09
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Ahh good advice, my environment is very clean, and they'd be in a sealed container, but I hadn't considered the fact that you only need lube for the resizing die, none for the bullet seating die and the crimp die. Thanks guys! That solves that I'll just clean it off. What's your preferred way to do that, just a cloth and some water?
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Old April 2, 2020, 06:17 PM   #5
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I recently lubed some 223 brass w/ a popular spray on that I never liked. I thought Id give it one more chance. I sprayed petty heavy esp trying to get some into the case mouths.

I didnt get around to sizing till next afgternoon and they were like no lube had been applied.

I just went back to my graphite and Imperial sizing wax. Much less force to size than w/ spray on stuff.

Are there any home masde formulas for spray ons??
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Old April 3, 2020, 05:22 PM   #6
gwpercle
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Lube in small batches just prior to sizing .
Leaving them lubed and sitting around invites the lube to dissipate ...see post #5 !
Or they will pick up dust ...now you have dusty gritty lube ...not good .
Lube then size is best .
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Old April 4, 2020, 03:36 PM   #7
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Just lube,resize/deprime them all at once and clean the lube off at the same time. Then just load as few or as many as you want when you want.
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Old April 4, 2020, 04:30 PM   #8
Marco Califo
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To keep crud out of your dies you really should clean the brass before doing anything else. That includes removing the primer. Lee makes a universal decapper that never touches the case. Frankford makes a hand Deprime I like even better. So, I clean in dish soap some lemishine and hat water before handling. Then Deprime. Then clean again with lemishine. This binds up the lead primer residue. I also tumble with corn cob and Nufinish. Then I resize clean cases. I use a little white lithium grease from Home Depot and clean again after sizing.
You do not ever want to size dirty range brass.
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Old April 7, 2020, 01:58 PM   #9
langenc
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So Marco-do you then reclean brass after sizing, wipe f lube or just forget the lube/

Im using the Imp sizing wax and it needs to be cleaned/wiped of at least.
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Old April 7, 2020, 02:25 PM   #10
Marco Califo
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I use White Lithium Grease for rifle and do have to clean it off. This is for rifle.
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Old April 7, 2020, 06:34 PM   #11
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Cant speak for everyone, but it has been my experience that most people do their rifle brass in batches. For instance fired cases get, decaped and wet tumbled or dry tumbled with their primers or any mix of the two to remove range debris. lubed, sized, trimmed, and cleaned again to remove lube and any trimming debris or junk that stuck to the case, as well as final polishing. So if one was to start loading 10 or 100 or 1000 cases, each batch remains in the batch state until moving on to the next process. So if you were to clean, lube and size on Monday, trim camphor and debugger on Wednesday, final tumble on Friday, load on Saturday, shoot on Sunday rinse and repeat, I don't see an issue with how long lube stays on the case within reason.

What I do see as an issue as others have stated is keeping the crud out of your dies. if your going to size your cases, clean them, lube them, then size. you can set them aside for a bit after that. If your working out how much you are looking to size them only do a few at a time and try them out. One at a time can help you decide weather it will chamber in YOUR rifle to your liking.
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Old April 8, 2020, 12:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by langenc View Post
I recently lubed some 223 brass w/ a popular spray on that I never liked. I thought Id give it one more chance. I sprayed petty heavy esp trying to get some into the case mouths.

I didnt get around to sizing till next afgternoon and they were like no lube had been applied.

I just went back to my graphite and Imperial sizing wax. Much less force to size than w/ spray on stuff.

Are there any home masde formulas for spray ons??

For straight wall brass a 25-30% lanolin and denatured alcohol mix works great in small sprayer. Let dry for a few mins and go.

For rifle I still use imperial wax and the neck graphite. I typically do one case with a “touch” of wax on my fingers only rubbed on to case body, then next case with only neck graphite, then alternate, making the buildup in the die less.


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Old April 8, 2020, 11:43 AM   #13
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Cleaning lubricant off sized cases is necessary to reduce bolt thrust and prevents contaminates sticking to them. A good wash in lacquer thinner works good then evaporates off in an hour or more. Less time if spread out on cloth in direct sunlight.

More case lube info in https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=606471
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Old April 8, 2020, 06:25 PM   #14
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Speaking of bolt thrust, I used to tumble my brass in crushed walnut with Nushine. I quit doing it because I thought there might be excessive bolt thrust due to the “wax” finish left on the shell case. I have no proof of this, and have always wondered if this might happen.
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Old April 9, 2020, 11:41 AM   #15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swBDnJY0470 Speaks of match grade primers at appx timestamp 23:45. Overall a good discussion of all things primer. Several ads in the middle.
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Old April 9, 2020, 02:52 PM   #16
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Montana09,

I don't think the others have used the Lee lube before. It's a bit different. It is a water-dry lube mix. You can apply it and let it dry and come back years later and it still works. Some folks use it wet, but when you do that it has been know to rust dies, so let it dry completely.
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Old May 6, 2020, 08:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy View Post
Speaking of bolt thrust, I used to tumble my brass in crushed walnut with Nushine. I quit doing it because I thought there might be excessive bolt thrust due to the “wax” finish left on the shell case. I have no proof of this, and have always wondered if this might happen.
I use that method also. Should I change?
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Old May 6, 2020, 11:09 AM   #18
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It is probably unnecessary to change. Varmint Al did some detailed analysis of bolt thrust and found it increases less than people expect until you arrive at a lubrication level (coefficient of friction of 0.01 or less) that probably is not possible to achieve in practice. That is half the coefficient of friction of molybdenum disulfide. HBN has a COF that high, but in actual application you have the metal surface texture involved, and that prevents the laboratory level of COF from being achieved in practice.

Al's analysis showed an actual benefit to a degree of slicking up of the chamber. If the chamber is polished smooth to the level of Flitz paste polishing, and, even adding grease, the case begins to stick to the chamber only in the forward half or so. As a result, the stretching that normally thins the pressure ring is spread out over a greater length of brass and you get much longer case life in the bottom half of the case.

Board member Slamfire has been intentionally lubricating his Garand loads for awhile and gets 20+ reloads out of each case. Search for his posts. He has photos of the ammo and of sectioned cases afterward. I don't like greasing or oiling brass because I find the stuff migrates into the bedding and sprays into my glasses. So I bought a set of Flexhone 30-06 chamber polishing hones and am going to use them on a couple of Criterion barrels I got from the CMP and do a bit of case-life testing with those just polished and not lubed.
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