Reloder 16 6.5 creedmoor 140 SMK update.

[kilotanker22]

So I went to the range today and tested the same load that seemed to work so well a few days ago. This time instead of the 5 times fired cases I used once fired cases. Not all of these cases were fired in this rifle. I found that with the same die setting the shoulder was set back several thousandths further than with the other brass. I assume this is due to the other brass being more work hardened and these being softer. I also saw around a 14 fps increase in average velocity and a slightly higher velocity spread. I am also assuming this is due to the softer brass.

Another possibility is that although this is all Winchester brass collected from their OTM Range ammunition, they do not all have the same headstamp. I did notice that all of the shots that shot higher velocity opening up the spread were stamped "USA 6.5 CM". The others were much more consistent with the results I had a few days ago. Actually the ones stamped "Winchester" were only a few fps different than what I shot the other day. So from now on I know that the two cases are not the same. Even though they are both Winchester cases. From now on I will sort them by stamp.

Aside from that. The load was shooting pretty well. I shot two more .5" groups and a few not as good. I was in a hurry tonight as I was running out of daylight and wanted to shoot a bunch of groups at 100, 200 and 300 yards. I did not let the barrel cool between groups until the mirage was too much. And then I only let it cool till I could shoot again. I don't like running a gun that hot and I think my groups overall suffered from this.

At 100 yards accuracy was about the same as the other day. At 200 yards I managed to put 5 shots into a 1.2" group and another group at 1.5". At 300 yards I shot only one group, because the sun was setting. That group measured 2.545". I was not compensating for wind. The wind was not blowing hard, but was constantly changing direction. I will post a photo of the 300 yard group. Overall I am pretty satisfied with this load. I have no doubt if I had more time and had sorted the two groups of Winchester brass (as I did for the first group of brass) it would shoot better. Although I am satisfied. It is shooting sub MOA reliably.

Also I did notice that the Sierra SMK from the two boxes I have do have some variation in bullet base to ogive measurement. These two particular boxes are no where near as consistent as the the Hornady ELDM I have been shooting. The Sierra's vary by about .006" bullet base to ogive. Over all I think that I will buy some Berger and some more Hornady bullets to shoot. I have no problem getting the 140's to 2900 so I may buy some 147 ELDM or the 156 grain Berger or the 142 SMK. Honestly I really think that I prefer the Hornady bullets.

[std7mag]

I think it's a wonderful idea!!!

Ok, all manbun shooters sell off all the RL26 you snagged!
Maybe us 7mm Rem Mag shooters can buy RL16, and make you trades.
Staball6.5 is on the block too!

[kilotanker22]

Originally Posted by std7mag

I think it's a wonderful idea!!!

Ok, all manbun shooters sell off all the RL26 you snagged!
Maybe us 7mm Rem Mag shooters can buy RL16, and make you trades.
Staball6.5 is on the block too!

Yeah I want some Staball 6.5. local shop says his distributors are out. And I don't like to pay hazmat fees.

Reloader 26 isn't going anywhere for me.

[ocharry]

Kelo,,i have a question for ya,,you seem to like playing with this stuff as much as i do,,,lol

so i see you are using the 140gr SMK....and i am working with that same bullet but my bullets are from a long time ago,,,they got to be at least 25 years old,,,i had them from the old days while playing with the 264 win mag,,,must have 1500 or so of them,,,

and i am using H4350 powder,,,again i have about 15 pounds of the stuff,,,and with this load i am using it is going around 26-2650 fps

so to the question,,,,where in flight do you think this bullet is going to sleep?? out past 100,,,200,,,farther

the reason i ask is i shot a group with my rifle yesterday (6.5CM sav 110 tac) at 200,,,at a steel 4" steel plate and just looking at the splashes it has to be right at 1",,,put 5 shots on it and it pounded the plate at the same spot so much it beat a hole in the plate,,,,it is 1/2" CRS so nothing special about it,,,these targets were from the old cowboy days and only got lead shot at them until yesterday,,,i figured it would crater the steel some but dang ,,,that one is junk,,,,but thats another story,,,,

according to strelok,,,and i have not verified this with actual shots on target,,,from my zero to 400yrds with this load i only need 4.6 MOA elevation adjustment to be there at 400,,,not much of an adjustment but could be i guess,,strelok nailed it at 200 so could be i guess,,,i will find out for sure before i trust it...lol

but i am curious about when it goes to sleep and becomes stable in flight flying straight and true

i will say i am impressed with this new savage,,,i love this thing

ocharry

[kilotanker22]

I don't think the bullet ever really goes to sleep as you describe it. With the proper twist rate and bullet it should be stable when it leaves the bore and certainly before it reaches 100 yards. I think.

What is your Powder charge with that H-4350? If your velocity numbers are accurate then Strelok should be pretty damn close throughout the ranges you will shoot.

I also have a 110 Tactical Desert so if you wanted to PM me we could compare data and discuss it a little more.

[ocharry]

Kilo...I really Dont have much to share... I have not chronoed anything as of yet....so my vel numbers are a averaged guess

The charge is 39.5 H 4350

Between the rain and wind....rained here most of the day again....I want to get serious about this...everything is ready....got loads waiting to shoot with the 140 smk and 130 game changer....but the weather.....uhhh

You guys are way more technical than this old guy here....but I read your post and try to pick up a trick or two

I just always thought that when the bullet left the muzzle it was uhhh upset a little if you will and it took some time- distance to get stable..... I could be wrong ....miss interpreting what I have read....would not be the first time for sure

This load is something I just put together for initial sight in and scope adjustment....it did so well I wanted to see if it was a fluke ....I had 10 of them that i shot...so I put 6 more together the same and 4 that are neck sized....just to see what if anything would change

OAL is 2.8 ....the 5 I shot at the steel were full length sized just as before

I put this target out there in the field last week and yesterday I couldn't stand looking at it any longer...was a little windy...quartering from my back at about 5-7 mph I guess

But I will say I was surprised at what happened.... The slash never changed....and there was a hole through the steel.....so as close as I can tell they all (5) hit the same spot

I was just curious what your thoughts were on the bullet getting to stable flight and when

I will say you guys talking about this stuff is interesting to me...and I look all the time for the new stuff you guys write

I would love to chat with you on what you do and are doing....I just dont have much to offer right now....damn weather...lol

But yesterday I just couldn't wait any longer....weather or not

Ocharry

[kilotanker22]

I have always thought that if a bullet does not start stable then it couldn't or would be less likely to become stable. If a bullet was unstable and wobbled a little bit in the air then I figure that would cause even more instability.

Also even at 25 yards the bullet holes in paper are perfect little circles.

39.5 grains is a good place to start with H-4350. I would not be surprised at all if you found your best accuracy right around 41.8-42.2 grains. Shoots lights out in my 110 tactical. I also get around 2850 with a 42.2 grain load behind a 140 grain bullet.

For the 130 tipped game king I recommend a different powder. Something like Reloder 26, 17. H-4350 had good accuracy, but with the 130 grain bullets I just could not get the increase in Velocity I was looking for. Your rifle may be different.

With the 130 grain Tipped Game King and Reloder 26 I am able to get just shy of 3000 fps, with good accuracy.all of the other powders top out at 2850-2900 fps except Reloder 17, but it was too inconsistent for my liking.

I have been using the Alliant powders, because H-4350 was nowhere to be found. With my tactical rifle I switched to Reloder 16 looking for a little more accuracy and consistency. With my hunting rifle I will stick with the 130 grain Tipped Game King with Reloder 26. It shoots ok and gets really good velocity. With my hunting rifle I will sacrifice a little bit of accuracy for an extra 100-150 fps. I don't really shoot past 350-400 yards and even a 1.5 moa load/rifle combo would be ok for that. Although the Game King and Reloder 26 load shoots right about 1 MOA.

I was using a Winchester XPR sporter for a hunting rifle, but wanted a little more barrel length at around the same weight so I sold my Winchester and bought a Franchi Momentum also in 6.5 Creedmoor. Have not had a chance to shoot it yet though.

Next I want to get a 7mm-08, and a 7mm Remington Magnum. I have enough 6.5 mm stuff.

[ocharry]

yeah i see what you are saying,,,and the holes do appear to be straight through the paper

i kinda figured it was like starting a top,,when it first gets going it is just a touch unstable and then finds its true running on its axis until it starts to slow down and then becomes unstable again,,,but you do make a good point for me to think on,,,lol,,,,the logistics of that are probably way over my head anyway,,lol

well i just picked that load to get things rolling,,,i have 39,39.5,40,40.5 and 41 loaded up with the 140,,,just luck i guess about that 39.5 load shooting so good,,,man if it gets better that would be great,,,i started with these bullets just because i have so many of them,,,and the powder too,,,got lots of that too,,,so thats where i started

not sure about the 130,,,but the loads change by .5gr at a time,(5 of each),,would have to look,,,but i think they were kinda similar,,,i picked these for maybe deer and i want to try the hornady 129 bullet too,,,so far i havent got to try much of anything,,,,,but i will

yeah i dont really care about the speed or velocity to much,,,,yes i want them to be fast so they work properly,,,,,but for me i want them to be as accurate as i can make them,,,if i have to give up 100 or so FPS im ok with that,,,,i guess if i was going to take it out to 1000 or farther then maybe speed would come into play more,,,just to keep it supersonic longer,,,i dont know,,,i would like to take it to 1000 some day just to say i did it with this rifle,,,,but for now 4-500 is what i want to see from it,,,and from what i see at 200 i dont think 500 will be a problem

yep i know,,,this venture started as i wanted a 300 yrd coyote gun,,,lol,,,,i dont think 300 is gona be a problem with this rifle,, scope set up

i also have a savage 308fp,,and a savage tactical 7mmRM and they are both really good shooters too,,,but this one is always talking to me,,,lol

i sure wish the weather would straighten up some,,but from here its gona get wetter,,,need some sun shine around here for a couple weeks or a month,,,,man is it sloppy muddy,,,it either rains or its windy as hell,,,lol,,,but i can pick a small window sometimes

ocharry

[kilotanker22]

Ocharry where are you from?

[ocharry]

Im in Missouri,,, little south and west of Hannibal

Looks like the sun came out for a peek this afternoon,,may try a shot or two,,,gona rain again tomorrow they are sayin

Ocharry

[kilotanker22]

Dang that sucks. Supposed to rain a lot this coming week here. Our range has a nice building to shoot from and all of the concrete benches have a roof over them so you can shoot without getting all that wet.

[ocharry]

That would be nice...I can shoot from my shop and stay dry...I just dont care much for doing that when it is raining....but I do it a lot....I did it this afternoon...lol...shoot from the shop door..lol

You were right with the prediction about the higher charges....I shot the 39...40. I skipped over the 39.5 because that what I started with

The 39 made a nice group...was more vertical than wide....but not bad...the 40 was less vertical.....and then I got to the 40.5.... It was a nice round group....and as close as I can measure.....its kind of ragged...but center to center it is just over 5/16.... Maybe about .320-.325..... But it was round...no matter where I measured it it was about the same size

Im pretty happy with that...i dont know if 41 will get any better than that...but I got it loaded so gonna shoot it....hell I dont know if I'm any better than that

None of the groups were bad...but I like to see them round like that...I think its a keeper

Funny thing is....so far this rifle has not shot anything I put in it bad....with the 140gr bullets anyway....there all pretty good

Maybe I just got lucky or I got a good one...or both...but if they all shoot like this one it has to be a well kept secret....

I hope it shoots these 130gr bullets this good...I will find out soon I hope

Ocharry

[hooligan1]

MDC just shut my local 100 yd range down, now I have to be at the mercy of weather for shooting at my buddy's tree farm, cant go if its wet.

[kilotanker22]

Luckily the range has not been closed here. I have been shooting right along. I am switching my load developement over to the ELDX in this Savage rifle. Trying to stay with what is available locally
'

[Rimfire5]

My three 6.5mm Creedmoors shoot 140 SMKs just about the worst of all the 140 grain bullets I have tried.
The the 142 SMKs. They are a newer bullet and have a significantly different shape.
They shoot much more accurately in my three 6.5mm CMs.

My measurements indicate that amount of bullet body in the 140 SMK is quite different than the other 140s I have tried. Many barrels are sensitive to the amount of bullet body touching the rifling and that might be causing the accuracy issues you're having with the 140 SMKs.

I just stopped trying to get them to shoot better and concentrated on the bullets that shoot better.

[kilotanker22]

Originally Posted by Rimfire5

My three 6.5mm Creedmoors shoot 140 SMKs just about the worst of all the 140 grain bullets I have tried.
The the 142 SMKs. They are a newer bullet and have a significantly different shape.
They shoot much more accurately in my three 6.5mm CMs.

My measurements indicate that amount of bullet body in the 140 SMK is quite different than the other 140s I have tried. Many barrels are sensitive to the amount of bullet body touching the rifling and that might be causing the accuracy issues you're having with the 140 SMKs.

I just stopped trying to get them to shoot better and concentrated on the bullets that shoot better.

So far the best bullet I have shot in any of my 6.5 mm rifles as far as accuracy goes is the 140 grain ELDm. Those bullets just plain shoot well. The ELDX is more finicky and picky about seating depth. Although when you find where the eldx likes to be seated in your rifle they shoot just as well as the match bullets.

Right now I am attempting to develop a load that functions and shoots really well in several rifles. 2 Savages and one Franchi. I want to do this so I can load up several hundred rounds or even a thousand and just grab ammo when I want to shoot. As it stands now, I use a different bullet, case and powder charge for each gun.

With Reloder 16 I am getting pretty close to a load that works in all of them.
Problem right now is locally everything is selling out and I have to shoot what is readily available. The ELDX is the most available 6.5 mm bullet local to me right now.

[kilotanker22]

I probably won't be using the ELDX in the Franchi rifle though. For a rifle with such a long action it has the shortest magazine well I have seen. Mag length is 2.810" and it is an internal magazine. At maglength the ElDX is .135 from the lands in that rifle.

[Unclenick]

Doesn't mean it won't shoot well there; a lot of the longer low BC bullets like more jump than the stubby flat-base benchrest bullets do—sometimes a lot more jump. However, if you are setting the ogive below flush with the case mouth, you are using up powder space to no benefit. that has to be looked at. I once bought some HSM ammunition in 223 with the 80-grain SMK seated so the shoulder of the bullet was below the case mouth in order to fit in a magazine, but it shot surprisingly well at 600 yards, so you never know until you try.