Conical Bullet for 1858 New Army Revolver

[Ricksim]

I have an 1858 Remington (Uberti) .44 caliber revolving carbine and a revolver. I plan to use the carbine to hunt white tail deer with during black powder season. The revolver is for target plinking. I like to cast my own bullets. I’m interested in trying a Lee R.E.A.L. bullet MOLD D C 45CAL-200. I prefer to use a .454 diameter bullet. I’ve read some good stuff about this bullet but haven’t been able to find anything as it pertains to my guns. The driving bands on this are .452, .457, .462, and .467. I’m not sure I can load this in my cylinder. I’m pretty sure I’ll have to use pure/soft lead to cast them with. Anybody out there know about this.

Thanks Rick

[woodnbow]

I believe it’s been done in the Uberti guns. Apparently the stock Ubertis have .450 chambers and Pietta are something south of .448... that’s the rumor.

[Hawg]

They might work ok in newer Pietta's with a faster twist but methinks you'll have to load them off the gun and they will be hard to keep straight as they go in.

[44 Dave]

Check these out.
Johnston & Dow .44 Caliber Revolver Bullet Mold



The Eras Gone Johnston & Dow bullet weighs 217 grains, the band is .460 in diameter and the ogive just above the groove is .451. The long heal is .428 and will fit easily into the chamber even if wrapped in cartridge paper for those who prefer to prepare combustible cartridges.

This mold will produce a highly authentic bullet for your .44 black powder revolver. The mold design is take directly from an original Johnston & Dow bullet recovered from an 1863-1865 cavalry camp in Arkansas. See the photo of the original bullet next to the new cast version.

Eras Gone bullet molds are manufactured by LEE precision and will give you a lifetime of quality casting. They are double cavity and are a proprietary design sold exclusively by Eras Gone Bullet Molds.

[rodwhaincamo]

What I’ve found with both my NMA and ROA is that no matter what projectile I use the more accurate powder charge does not seem to. I created a few bullet designs with Accurate Molds, and will be again as I’ve decided to make a universal bullet for the two revolvers. I intend to fill the excess room with mead by stretching my 195 grn version to about 210-230 grns I’m guessing.

Shot cheaper RBs and figure out what your gun likes. And since you are wanting to hunt with a small powder charge (my NMA likes 30 grns, which weighs 33, of 3F Olde Eynsford) I implore you to use sporting grade powders. There are only a few I’m aware of. Olde E, Swiss, and Triple 7, though some people seem to report that Pyrodex is also pretty powerful (there’s many others that say it isn’t). The other powders produce dismal velocities whereas the few I mentioned will get you into the standard .45 ACP levels of performance.

I also put in my designs meant for hunting also a wide meplat. They make bigger than caliber holes even at low velocities.

Oh, it was found that you do not want to load a bullet flush with the cylinder face as gas cutting will destroy your bullet nose. Don’t recall how much room was found to be needed. Something like 1/16” or so.

It was also found that the bullet doesn’t really need to be any more than 0.001” over chamber diameter. No need to cut a big ring of lead.

Also, for hunting with you didn’t mention, but it seems most states don’t allow it used during the muzzleloader season as it doesn’t load from the muzzle.

[Hellgate]

It looks like the R.E.A.L. mold you are looking at is for the Ruger Old Army. You might have to get a 44 cal REAL mold that has the proper driving band diameters that will center the slug in the chamber. I'm not sure one is made any more. My experience with shooting them in the revolvers is YOU MUST cast them to fully fill the mold or else the sharp edges of the driving bands will not fill out, they will be rounded, and of significantly less diameter than stated. What happens then is they will migrate forward in the chambers under recoil and jam against the barrel. This locks up the gun until you push the bullet back into the chamber. I wanted to use them in cowboy action matches for heavy knockdown targets but unless they are carefully cast they cause reliability problems. I have stuck with the LEE 200gr conical for all my 44 cal revolvers (except the Navy pattern). LEE used to make a hollowpoint conical mold that would be more what you are looking for but I doubt you will ever find one. I had one in 36 cal. It made the little 36s into nice thumpers. The REAL bullets have the thin driving bands to facilitate loading into muzzle loading rifles where you don't have the leverage of a rammer like in the revolvers.

Someone redesigned the LEE style conical for 44s by turning it into more of a semi-wadcutter but the name escapes me. I believe that bullet is available. I think it is a 225 or 250 gr bullet.

[noelf2]

Depending on your state's muzeloader season rules, you may not be able to use the carbine. Many require a muzzleloaded rifle capable of firing one projectile.

[44caliberkid]

http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.a...9-68ebfdaba982

Big Lube bullet molds makes a 210 grain for cap n' ball revolvers. I use many of their other bullets for black powder cartridges and they work great.

[Ricksim]

You guys shared a lot of good info. Thank you all. I did check with my state (Florida) Fish and Wildlife about hunting with the black powder carbine and revolver during the black powder part of hunting season and was told that I could use either of these guns as long as it was 40 caliber or larger. So I’m good there.

I did purchase the Eras Gone bullet mold and cast and shot some of those bullets with less than desirable accuracy at 50 yards with the carbine. They load great. But the biggest problem I had was that the cast bullets varied too much in weight between the two cavities of the mold. There was an average of 7-8 grains different between the two. I ended up using only one of the cavities in the mold.

My best group with the carbine is 3” at 50 yards with a 180 conical using 23 grains if Triple 7 FFFg powder. That would probably do what I want but I would prefer to hunt with a heavier bullet with the same or better accuracy. I recently purchased a dozen each of Kaido Ojamaa’s 220 & 240 grain bullets to try. He has the molds for these two bullets and told me that they both do great hunting. I wanted to see how they group at the range before I buy his mold. Plan to go as soon as they open back up....Covid-19 has them closed.

I’ve tried several other bullets in various weights and powder charges but can’t quite get the right mix or at least one I’m happy with. I may be expecting more than this carbine can give.

Thank you all for your comments. It is much appreciated. Stay safe. Rick

[Ricksim]

44caliberkid I tried going to the link you provided but got a server error. I’ll try again later. Thanks

[rodwhaincamo]

I know of one other who hunts with his and he says 50 yds is about all it has as far as accuracy. The other says it doesn’t shoot straight at all but no you can’t buy it.

I’ve estimated that 25 grns of an energetic 3F powder and regular bullet likely produces .44 Spl (not the weak stuff) performance.

[44caliberkid]

Yep, my link went bad. Just go to www.biglube.com and click on bullet moulds, then on DD ROA Flat.

[Ricksim]

Thanks for the replies. I tried the new link and it works good...I’ll do some shopping there