Opening Stuck Powder Can Lid - Page 2

**Unclenick** · October 13, 2020, 10:59 AM

Jetinterior guy.

Small particles of iron are a fuel, ready to oxidize. When that oxidizing is slow, we call it rust. When it is fast, it is burning and releasing energy quickly, so it takes the form of a spark. If a puncturing or other force gets concentrated enough on an iron-containing material, tiny particles of it can be torn off the surface with enough momentary energy reach iron's ignition temperature in air. You see a lot of that going on if you apply a grinding wheel to iron or steel, where the friction from tearing the iron particles from its surface is high. But you can get small, individual sparks from tearing steel apart by other means, including puncturing it with a can opener. It is less common because the energy concentration is lower than what you apply when grinding. Nonetheless, they will randomly occur. Every once in a while someone blows themselves up screwing the caps onto pipe bombs because of the rubbing of the iron parts in the screwing motion. So, low probability or not, it isn't worth the risk over the cost of a can of powder to take the chance.

ghbucky · October 13, 2020, 11:21 AM

Unclenick,

I didn't realize how much something like this is playing Russian Roulette until you broke it down that way. Makes it very clear.

**44 AMP** · October 13, 2020, 12:47 PM

To add to what Uncle Nick said, "crushing" (or cutting slowly) is also a bad idea. Pressure = HEAT

And heat is not something you want when black powder is on the other side of the metal.

also, just FYI, ifn y'all put some vasoline or teflon tape on them threads, it cuts the risk of sparks.....

Here's something to consider, has the can ever been opened before? (to the best of your knowledge?)

If yes, then all bets are off. but if not, then there will be a seal (metal in the old days, paper now) underneath the cap. SO, if the seal is in place the risk of sparks from unscrewing a stubborn cap getting to the powder is very low.

Also, the seal would keep (or probably keep) penetrating oil from reaching the powder, and (if intact) would keep water out. That's its purpose.

If it were me, I would invert the can (so gravity works for you) and put some penetrating oil in the joint between the cap and the neck and let it sit for a few days, then using a strap wrench, unscrew the cap.

HOWEVER, that's my risk to take, you need to decide for your self, and no can of powder is worth ANY injury.

Good Luck.

Scorch · October 13, 2020, 06:08 PM

A pound of powder is cheap, stiches are expensive.

Metal god · October 15, 2020, 03:18 AM

I’ve only read the first 10 or so posts but I have to tell you I can’t stop cracking up . This crap seems so dangerous we’re now talking about burying it in the ground turning the lid with a strap wrench and a rope while laying prone I don’t know a mile away LOL . Why the hell would anybody use this stuff if it’s so darn dangerous to just open the can OMG haha .

Thank you all for this thread I now know 100% I want nothing to do with black powder ever .

Brit · October 15, 2020, 04:46 AM

Looking back as much as I can remember (85 YOA on the 27th of October) I can remember lots of really not bright actions! This one, disposal being my inclination!
Calling the fire service for advise, would be my advise, then take that advise.

cptjack · October 15, 2020, 07:19 AM

Wondering if you can't get the cap off ,how do you know it is in good condition

**44 AMP** · October 15, 2020, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Why the hell would anybody use this stuff if it’s so darn dangerous to just open the can OMG haha .

It's not dangerous to open the can, under normal conditions. That's not what the OP has. He has a can that is at least 35yrs old that he cannot open by hand.

That means something is drastically out of the ordinary, and THAT's when black powder gets squirrelly dangerous, ... POSSIBLY...

So, we advise to err on the side of caution, because we simply can't KNOW with certainty what is or isn't safe.

Metal god · October 15, 2020, 03:13 PM

I say put it in the ground like uncle Nick says and shoot it with your 22 from about 50 yards away . That sounds a lot more fun than trying to open the can and salvage it . Just kidding , kinda ;-) . Lets say the can opens how ever the method , then what ? Is it good to go or are there 10 more things that can kill you with a well placed sneeze:-0

jetinteriorguy · October 16, 2020, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unclenick

Jetinterior guy.

Small particles of iron are a fuel, ready to oxidize. When that oxidizing is slow, we call it rust. When it is fast, it is burning and releasing energy quickly, so it takes the form of a spark. If a puncturing or other force gets concentrated enough on an iron-containing material, tiny particles of it can be torn off the surface with enough momentary energy reach iron's ignition temperature in air. You see a lot of that going on if you apply a grinding wheel to iron or steel, where the friction from tearing the iron particles from its surface is high. But you can get small, individual sparks from tearing steel apart by other means, including puncturing it with a can opener. It is less common because the energy concentration is lower than what you apply when grinding. Nonetheless, they will randomly occur. Every once in a while someone blows themselves up screwing the caps onto pipe bombs because of the rubbing of the iron parts in the screwing motion. So, low probability or not, it isn't worth the risk over the cost of a can of powder to take the chance.

Thanks UN, I know what your saying and have always understood the oxidation part from my college chem classes, I just wouldn’t have imagined even something as innocuous as using a can opener could also induce a spark.

9MMand223only · October 16, 2020, 05:06 PM

had this issue before. I know how to get it off without an issue.
place can in vice or whatever apparatus to where it cant twist, place a strap wrench on lid..
like this...https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-8-...APWR/300117125

OR large pliers, grips of any kind...the leverage will open it, or the lid will simply shear off.

**Unclenick** · October 17, 2020, 03:29 PM

If the contents has corroded through the lid plating, the spark potential is still there, so you want the vice plopped down in pit in the middle of a field somewhere and to pull on the strap wrench with a rope.

Metal god · October 17, 2020, 06:00 PM

Quote:

If the contents has corroded through the lid plating, the spark potential is still there, so you want the vice plopped down in pit in the middle of a field somewhere and to pull on the strap wrench with a rope.

I get chuckle every time I read that . As serious as all this is I can’t help but to have that nervous laughter every time I read these posts . I mean no disrespect and I don’t know why but this thread is cracking me up .

Pahoo · October 17, 2020, 06:47 PM

ChasHam
Can I see your channel-locks, for a minute? .....

Be Safe !!!

pwc · October 17, 2020, 11:20 PM

Well, it's been 8 days....what did you do? Poop or get off the pot.

noylj · October 18, 2020, 01:27 AM

$25 can of 30 year-old black powder? I would just ask the fire department to dispose of it and BUY a new can. I like my house and all my limbs, thank you very much.

cecILL · October 18, 2020, 06:58 AM

I've always used channel locks to snug the lids on all my cans of powders.

Geezerbiker · October 18, 2020, 07:31 AM

I still think shooting the can from 100 yards away is the best choice. That way at least there could be some entertainment value from it...

Tony

ChasHam · October 20, 2020, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwc

Well, it's been 8 days....what did you do? Poop or get off the pot.

See Post 18...

Metal god · October 20, 2020, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Well, it's been 8 days....what did you do? Poop or get off the pot.

There's a reason you haven't heard

........................................................BOOM !!

ChasHam · December 15, 2020, 06:29 PM

OP here: Just by way of closure…

I took the can of GOEX to a gun shop a few towns over that specializes in muzzle loaders and asked the owner for advice. He said he could in fact open it safely— though didn’t mention how.

I told him I was just going to spread the contents in my garden but that if he had a use for it, he was welcome to it. I said I’m sure the boys in the shop could load/shoot it….or maybe one of his customers who’d been laid off from his job would appreciate a little Christmas gift.

He said one of his regular customers immediately comes to mind…so I left feeling pretty good about the whole process!

hounddawg · December 15, 2020, 08:00 PM

alls well that ends well

**Mal H** · December 16, 2020, 02:23 PM

That's an excellent ending to the saga, ChasHam.

RC20 · December 16, 2020, 03:33 PM

There are non sparking tools for that application.

October 13, 2020, 10:59 AM	#26
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Jetinterior guy. Small particles of iron are a fuel, ready to oxidize. When that oxidizing is slow, we call it rust. When it is fast, it is burning and releasing energy quickly, so it takes the form of a spark. If a puncturing or other force gets concentrated enough on an iron-containing material, tiny particles of it can be torn off the surface with enough momentary energy reach iron's ignition temperature in air. You see a lot of that going on if you apply a grinding wheel to iron or steel, where the friction from tearing the iron particles from its surface is high. But you can get small, individual sparks from tearing steel apart by other means, including puncturing it with a can opener. It is less common because the energy concentration is lower than what you apply when grinding. Nonetheless, they will randomly occur. Every once in a while someone blows themselves up screwing the caps onto pipe bombs because of the rubbing of the iron parts in the screwing motion. So, low probability or not, it isn't worth the risk over the cost of a can of powder to take the chance. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 13, 2020, 12:47 PM	#28
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	To add to what Uncle Nick said, "crushing" (or cutting slowly) is also a bad idea. Pressure = HEAT And heat is not something you want when black powder is on the other side of the metal. also, just FYI, ifn y'all put some vasoline or teflon tape on them threads, it cuts the risk of sparks..... Here's something to consider, has the can ever been opened before? (to the best of your knowledge?) If yes, then all bets are off. but if not, then there will be a seal (metal in the old days, paper now) underneath the cap. SO, if the seal is in place the risk of sparks from unscrewing a stubborn cap getting to the powder is very low. Also, the seal would keep (or probably keep) penetrating oil from reaching the powder, and (if intact) would keep water out. That's its purpose. If it were me, I would invert the can (so gravity works for you) and put some penetrating oil in the joint between the cap and the neck and let it sit for a few days, then using a strap wrench, unscrew the cap. HOWEVER, that's my risk to take, you need to decide for your self, and no can of powder is worth ANY injury. Good Luck. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 13, 2020, 06:08 PM	#29
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	A pound of powder is cheap, stiches are expensive. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

October 15, 2020, 03:18 AM	#30
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	I’ve only read the first 10 or so posts but I have to tell you I can’t stop cracking up . This crap seems so dangerous we’re now talking about burying it in the ground turning the lid with a strap wrench and a rope while laying prone I don’t know a mile away LOL . Why the hell would anybody use this stuff if it’s so darn dangerous to just open the can OMG haha . Thank you all for this thread I now know 100% I want nothing to do with black powder ever . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

October 15, 2020, 03:13 PM	#34
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	I say put it in the ground like uncle Nick says and shoot it with your 22 from about 50 yards away . That sounds a lot more fun than trying to open the can and salvage it . Just kidding , kinda ;-) . Lets say the can opens how ever the method , then what ? Is it good to go or are there 10 more things that can kill you with a well placed sneeze:-0 __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

October 13, 2020, 11:21 AM	#27
ghbucky Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2020 Posts: 1,177	Unclenick, I didn't realize how much something like this is playing Russian Roulette until you broke it down that way. Makes it very clear.

October 15, 2020, 04:46 AM	#31
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	Looking back as much as I can remember (85 YOA on the 27th of October) I can remember lots of really not bright actions! This one, disposal being my inclination! Calling the fire service for advise, would be my advise, then take that advise.

October 15, 2020, 07:19 AM	#32
cptjack Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2014 Posts: 314	Wondering if you can't get the cap off ,how do you know it is in good condition

October 16, 2020, 05:06 PM	#36
9MMand223only Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2014 Posts: 283	had this issue before. I know how to get it off without an issue. place can in vice or whatever apparatus to where it cant twist, place a strap wrench on lid.. like this...https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-8-...APWR/300117125 OR large pliers, grips of any kind...the leverage will open it, or the lid will simply shear off.

October 17, 2020, 03:29 PM	#37
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	If the contents has corroded through the lid plating, the spark potential is still there, so you want the vice plopped down in pit in the middle of a field somewhere and to pull on the strap wrench with a rope. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 17, 2020, 06:47 PM	#39
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Okay !!! ChasHam Can I see your channel-locks, for a minute? ..... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

October 17, 2020, 11:20 PM	#40
pwc Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2018 Location: AZ Posts: 236	Well, it's been 8 days....what did you do? Poop or get off the pot.

October 18, 2020, 01:27 AM	#41
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	$25 can of 30 year-old black powder? I would just ask the fire department to dispose of it and BUY a new can. I like my house and all my limbs, thank you very much.

October 18, 2020, 06:58 AM	#42
cecILL Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: central IL Posts: 769	I've always used channel locks to snug the lids on all my cans of powders.

October 18, 2020, 07:31 AM	#43
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	I still think shooting the can from 100 yards away is the best choice. That way at least there could be some entertainment value from it... Tony

December 15, 2020, 06:29 PM	#46
ChasHam Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2018 Location: Deep South Posts: 130	RESOLVED OP here: Just by way of closure… I took the can of GOEX to a gun shop a few towns over that specializes in muzzle loaders and asked the owner for advice. He said he could in fact open it safely— though didn’t mention how. I told him I was just going to spread the contents in my garden but that if he had a use for it, he was welcome to it. I said I’m sure the boys in the shop could load/shoot it….or maybe one of his customers who’d been laid off from his job would appreciate a little Christmas gift. He said one of his regular customers immediately comes to mind…so I left feeling pretty good about the whole process! Last edited by ChasHam; December 15, 2020 at 06:41 PM.

December 15, 2020, 08:00 PM	#47
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	alls well that ends well __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

December 16, 2020, 02:23 PM	#48
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,954	That's an excellent ending to the saga, ChasHam.

December 16, 2020, 03:33 PM	#49
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	There are non sparking tools for that application. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not