Striker Fired vs Firing Pin

[Bucksnort1]

I searched this site for information but couldn't find what I want.

What is the difference (advantages/disadvantages) between striker fired and firing pin pistols?

[RickB]

In general, a striker is driven by a spring, while a firing pin, if it has a spring, will be driven by a hammer with the spring resisting forward movement.

So, if cocking the action loads a spring surrounding or inside the striker, you have a self-contained unit that is released by the trigger, while firing pins are usually driven by a spring-loaded hammer.
The former has fewer parts, and is today overwhelmingly more popular than hammer-driven firing pins.

The terminology isn't consistent, but that's it, in a nutshell.

[Pahoo]

What is the difference (advantages/disadvantages) between striker fired and firing pin pistols?

I an no expert by any means but I think you are referring to Striker fire vs. Hammer fired. Simply put and there are exceptions but one clearly has a hammer and the other, some kind of bolt that strikes the primer.

In my opinion there are detectable differences and for me, I don't care for the long trigger pulls on striker-fired. Then there are internal hammers and external hammer. I prefer the feel of hammer-fired but then again, a striker fired is safer to use. Really depends on usage. .,....

I'll bet if you got to YouTube, you will find a better explanation than what I just gave you as well as a video to use. .....

Be Safe !!!

[shurshot]

I disagree that striker fired weapons are safer Pahoo. Far easier to get clothing stuck in the trigger guard while reholstering or inadvertently squeezing the trigger causing an Accidental discharge. A Glock or SW striker fired weapon has a trigger pull of what... 5 to 6 pounds? Almost like a single action trigger pull.
A double action Sig 220 or M9, in DA, is what, 10 to 12 pounds??

[Pahoo]

BuckSnort;

See if this helps ; ???

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/st...is-one-better/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr3ejjMftSw

Be Safe !!!

[FITASC]

Far easier to get clothing stuck in the trigger guard while reholstering or inadvertently squeezing the trigger causing an Accidental discharge

And that can happen with a hammer-fired gun as well. let's not forget most shotguns and rifles are technically "striker-fired" as well with no issues. if you have your finger on the trigger while reholstering, that is on you and no one else.

[Jim Watson]

Strange, my shotguns are all hammer fired. No EXPOSED hammers, but they are in there.
Likewise AR, 10-22, and Mk XXII auto rifles.
My only striker fired shoulder arms are bolt actions.

I suspect the main driver for striker fired pistols is cost, they appear cheaper to build.

[5whiskey]

I suspect the main driver for striker fired pistols is cost, they appear cheaper to build.

Somewhat. It's not just "they appear" anyone with a smidge of mechanical inclination will tell you they ARE cheaper to build. I think that does drive some of the striker fired popularity, as most hammer fired options are more expensive. I also think a simplified manual of arms made it quite popular for law enforcement, beginning in the 80's and becoming wildly popular in the 90's and beyond. Glock and their marketing "perfection" made them the go-to for law enforcement. The civilian market quickly followed, and then soon after many manufacturers wanted to try and ride that wave. Many have been quite successful too.

Simple isn't always better though. I, like shurshot, am not a fan of the often too light and too short first trigger pull offered in many striker pistols. Some of them also have no manual safety. I'm in Law Enforcement and have worked areas where my pistol was frequently drawn, occassionally pointed, and a few times with my finger touching the trigger getting ready to squeeze (justifiably too). Despite coming danger close, I've never had to shoot anyone as a cop (thank goodness). I like a long, deliberate first trigger pull for obvious reasons mentioned.

[TunnelRat]

I’m not sure that the OP did in fact mean for a discussion of the pros and cons of hammer fired versus striker fired as opposed to just how a cartridge is ignited. That said I’ll add my own experience. I’ve owned a lot of hammer fired DA/SA pistols as well as a lot of striker fired “safe-action” type pistols. I think either system can be learned and employed just fine. In my opinion, few are the stock striker fired triggers on current production pistols that approach the feel of the SA of a hammer fired pistol, whether that pistol is SAO or DA/SA. To me the difference is more than just the weight on a trigger gauge.

For years I was convinced that the longer and heavier weight of a DA first press served as an additional form of safety. I still agree with that to an extent. However, doing force on force scenario based training left me realizing that a deliberate press was a deliberate press. After the scenarios I had no more recognition of the weight or length of the trigger on the P226 UTM pistol versus the P320 UTM pistol. It was completely immaterial to me once my adrenaline started working. At the same time I have seen fatigue get me to a point where I have missed DA shots that I know I would have made in SA or with a “safe-action” type trigger.

I have stated before that I personally have had a negligent discharge. It was with a S&W 5903, a pistol with both a DA trigger and a manual safety. It happened as I “knew” the firearm was clear. It was not. Once I made the deliberate decision to fire, the pistol wasn’t capable of stopping me as disengaging that safety and pressing the trigger were already part of my neural pathway.

I do not believe the stock trigger weights on most firearms are the main factor in negligent discharges. The members of law enforcement as well as instructors I have talked to have left me with the conclusion that most negligent discharges are a combination of people pressing the trigger on what they “knew” was an unloaded firearm, people not removing their own fingers while reholstering (bizarre to me but I know of multiple first hand cases told to me), and triggers getting snagged on clothing while holstering. To the last point I would agree a heavier and longer trigger press, as well as an ability to ride a hammer, can mitigate that to an extent. However, there is always the Gadget for Glocks and frankly the real solution is to clear the holster first. If a threat is still active, don’t holster. If it’s not active, then holster with some care.

To the point about having a finger on the trigger to “prep” the trigger, I personally would advise against it. I can fully agree that accidental placement of a finger on a trigger is a possibility. At the same time in terms of speed I’ve seen an instructor test all 12 members of a reflexive shooting course with a timer where we tried finger on the trigger versus finger along the frame. The class agreed the difference in time for all students was negligible and this was the second full day of the class when we were all well warmed up and hitting our stride. I can see where and why that practice started, but again I don’t personally advocate that idea (nor do the instructors I’ve had, most of whom were or are members of law enforcement).


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[44 AMP]

I would point out that, everything has a firing pin. Strikers ARE firing pins specifically the tip that strikes the primer. Many bolt actions are referred to as "striker fired" but have NO part identified as the striker. They have spring driven firing pins.

The usual terms used for the comparison you want is "Striker fired vs. Hammer Fired".
And, to further confuse the issue, it is not incorrect in some languages to refer to the hammer AS the "Striker".

Somewhat. It's not just "they appear" anyone with a smidge of mechanical inclination will tell you they ARE cheaper to build.

I understand your point but it is an overgeneralization. I'd say current design polymer frame pistols are cheaper to build, but all "striker fired" pistols are not.

It depends on the specific design. My favorite exception to the over broad statements about striker fired pistol being cheaper/more reliable, etc, is the classic Pistole Parabellum.

THE LUGER.

It is NOT cheaper to build, and it absolutely is a striker fired pistol. And its not noted for exceptional reliability, either.

And then there is the other side of the coin in exceptions to the "striker fired = good" generalities, the low budget pocket pistols such as Jennings, Lorcin, Raven and similar guns that are striker fired, but have little else good about them.

If you wish to limit discussion only to Glock, XD and similar type pistols, fine, but please, be specific.

[JohnKSa]

It's easier to get more firing pin energy out of a hammer fired design.
It's easier to make a striker fired design smaller/lighter/simpler.
It seems to be easier to get a really nice trigger out of a hammer fired design.

[Bill DeShivs]

There are many "single action" striker fired pistols. The Baby Browning and 1910, Bernardelli, Galesi, Luger. These guns do not require the trigger to do anything except release the sear.

[TunnelRat]

My comment comparing striker fired pistols to hammer fired pistols in SA was meant to be about current production pistols. I have edited the comment for clarity.

While there are striker fired pistols in current production that simply release the striker as opposed to doing additional cocking of that striker, I still do not generally find those triggers either as light in weight, short in travel length, or crisp in their break as many single action triggers. There are also many current production striker fired pistols that do some form of additional cocking when the trigger is pressed (although that in itself doesn’t necessarily make those triggers “bad”).


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[cslinger]

i had a similar question a short time back. Not so much about the function of striker vs. hammer fired more so about the terminology of striker vs. firing pin. What I found is they are basically interchangeable throughout history. Both are a "punch" designed to ignite a primer.

The difference comes into play in HOW those "punches" go about their business.

In a striker fired gun the striker/firing pin/"punch if you will" is basically simply retained by a sear of some sort while under spring tension wanting to drive it forward. In some cases the act of pulling the trigger will pull the pin back the rest of the way before releasing it (ala GLOCK safe action) and in some cases that striker/firing pin is held all the way back (fully cocked) and simply released (Ala Walther PPQ for example). From a practical standpoint. Strikers use less parts, can be packaged into a smaller envelope, tend to be cheaper to manufacture and provide the end user with a single trigger pull every time. What they lose is double strike capability (Honestly this is a non issue just pointing it out), the ability to physically feel and impede an external hammer when holstering (if a foreign object presses against the trigger you will feel the hammer start to move and can keep it from doing so with your thumb.)

Hammer fired guns still have a firing pin/striker/"punch if you will" they just go about using it differently. Where as the spring tension on a striker fired gun wants to press the striker forward, the spring tension (if there is any) on a hammer fired gun is usually to keep the firing pin from moving forward until struck by the hammer. Hammer fired guns will do TWO actions (Double Action) when firing the first round (or ever round if DA only). Action one the hammer is pulled back, action two the hammer is released an allowed to fall via spring pressure striking the firing pin, driving it forward igniting the primer. The gun fires the slide cycles in in a Double action/single action gun the slide automatically cocks the hammer leaving the gun in single action mode. At that point the trigger only has to perform a SINGLE action and that is to simply release the hammer starting the cycle over.

From a practical standpoint hammer fired guns are most commonly DA/SA guns. This means there will be two trigger pulls to learn. One heavy and long (DA) because it is overcoming the hammer spring and one very light and typically much crisper (SA) because all it has to do is release said hammer. Hammer fired guns, in theory, offer a bit more safety margins during administrative gun handling. That said one must train to DECOCK the weapon. The vast majority of modern firearms will have a decocking lever/button that allows the hammer to fall safely. There are exceptions that require the user to use the trigger and GENTLY thumb the hammer down. If a firearm has a decocking lever/button/solution ALWAYS USE IT.

However, doing force on force scenario based training left me realizing that a deliberate press was a deliberate press. After the scenarios I had no more recognition of the weight or length of the trigger on the P226 UTM pistol versus the P320 UTM pistol.

Although I have never done force on force type training I will absolutely attest to this fact even simply under the stress of a BEEP/timer. In my case I have used a SIG P225 that had an absolutely atrociously heavy double action, yet when used under stress (fake stress at that) I never even noticed it. Like I said above I do believe the heavy, long DA trigger pull is an asset to safety during administrative gun handling but like anything you need to train and be familiar with your tools. It must be decocked, it can still fire if a foreign object pushes the trigger on holstering (ESPECIALLY IF LEFT IN SINGLE ACTION). Being able to thumb the hammer on holstering is a safety feature/capability I like. YMMV and technically there are devices to allow the same functionality for a Glock.

Sorry for the super long reply and one that probably just rehashed a bunch of information but your are free to and I wholeheartedly endorse you ignoring me as I am just some idjit on the interwebz.

Take care, shoot safe, KNOW YOUR CHOSEN PLATFORM
Chris

[cslinger]

One other practical difference.
In GENERAL TERMS striker fired triggers, although typically having less travel and less weight almost never live up to a good hammer fired trigger especially in single action.

That said I run HKs most of the time sooooooooo yeah the above.......notsomuch there.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by cslinger

One other practical difference.
In GENERAL TERMS striker fired triggers, although typically having less travel and less weight almost never live up to a good hammer fired trigger especially in single action.

That said I run HKs most of the time sooooooooo yeah the above.......notsomuch there.

As a former HK shooter the last part made me smile .


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[Brit]

Whilst in a Gun Store on Merrit Island, BANG a LEO fired his Glock 19 in his holster?
Seemed like his draw string was the culprit, on his jacket! Dont know how exactly, but his knife came out, and snipped that string off. Scorched his pant leg, no blood!
Me and the young guy next to me, started to draw!! Upped my Blood Pressure for a while.
Yes a 9mm is loud without ear muffs.

[4V50 Gary]

What RickB said.

Hammer fired means a hammer strikes the firing pin (or has the firing pin attached) for the gun to go bang.

Striker fired has been around for over a century. It is under spring tension and is driven foward by the spring. Cheap semi-automatic pistols had this feature as does well esteemed guns like the Mauser 98, M1903 Springfield.

[Jim Watson]

Striker fired has been around for over a century. It is under spring tension and is driven foward by the spring. Cheap semi-automatic pistols had this feature

Not just cheap. Although striker fired is less expensive to make, it still showed up in quality guns, not just the Luger. All FN Brownings except the 1903 9mm Browning Long were striker fired until the early version GR was transmogrified into the GP and gained a hammer.

[T. O'Heir]

"...difference (advantages/disadvantages)..." Very little or no difference to the user. This'd be one of the many Ford vs Chevy questions.
The spring for a firing pin is to return the pin back into the slide.

[lee n. field]

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

"...difference (advantages/disadvantages)..." Very little or no difference to the user. This'd be one of the many Ford vs Chevy questions.

Something that folks on Internet social media obsess about, that they probably shouldn't.

The spring for a firing pin is to return the pin back into the slide.

In Glocks that one spring kind of does double duty, in a clever way.

[stinkeypete]

there are excellent explanations of the differences above and of course there are grey area designs that are a little of both but here is my humorous attempt at a response:

Striker Fired: Advantages: Its a Glock or just like it. Disadvantages: The trigger pull is long and miserable like a Glock.

Hammer Fired: Advantages: You can lower the hammer without firing and the trigger might feel great like the golden standard, the 1911. Disadvantages: it's more complicated to use.


With striker fired pistols in general, you point, pull the trigger, and each pull of the trigger feels like pulling a stick through mud. Then bang. Simple. Point and shoot.

With hammer fired you might have a simple set-up like the 1911- the hammer is back and you lock it there with the safety. Remove safety as coming to aim, pull the trigger which feels like a small glass rod breaking. If you forget to take the safety off, it's either embarrassing or worse.

You might have a set-up that's double/single action- point, pull the trigger which cocks the hammer and releases it. The first shot is like a double action revolver, it's heavy. The second shot is like breaking glass. You have to practice to deal with that first shot.

UNLESS
You have a double action pistol with a safety. The ol' belt and suspenders approach. Remove safety as you aim, then deal with long pull, then get follow up great trigger response. Again, don't forget to take safety off.

Basically, striker fired pistols are easier to operate.

A while back I might have said "Oh come on, who is going to forget to take their safety off???" but then I had a life changing experience on the second lesson of learning to fly a sailplane. The instructor asked me, while I was under extreme stress of trying to keep the airplane from falling out of the sky, how high we were above the ground. I could not subtract 1,000 from 4,000 and I am a math teacher. Lesson learned- under enough stress, the brain stops working.

As I don't do combat stuff, I only have hammer fired pistols.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

"...difference (advantages/disadvantages)..." Very little or no difference to the user. This'd be one of the many Ford vs Chevy questions.
The spring for a firing pin is to return the pin back into the slide.

There are a number of firearm designs that use a free floating firing pin, so no spring for the firing pin. Most of the examples I can think of are rifles such as AR15 or AKM variants, but it’s also true in pistols like a Makarov. In fairness I can’t think of a recently released hammer fired pistol on the commercial market that doesn’t use a firing pin return spring, but it’s not required for function (if someone knows of one released in the past few decades that doesn’t use a return spring I’d be interested to know which).


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[jmr40]

There have been no new long guns designed in over 100 years with an exposed hammer. Bolt action rifles use striker fired systems and are considered the most reliable rifles, and the ones with the best triggers. The better question is; why did it take so long for handguns to move to striker fired systems?

Having all of the moving parts enclosed inside the frame and slide reduces the chances of dirt and debris messing up things. Exposed hammers are susceptible to damage if the firearm is dropped. In close combat clothing, hair, or fingers can get between the hammer and firing pin preventing the gun from firing. Exposed hammers can be accidently cocked when they come in contact with objects while being carried.

All of these reasons are why exposed hammers fell out of favor with long guns. And are why striker fired guns are taking over with handguns.

And striker fired handguns don't have to have a long and heavy trigger pull. In fact most have trigger pull weights very similar to out of the box factory 1911's. The 1911 CAN be made lighter. And just like a 1911 trigger can be improved so can most striker fired guns. I have a couple of Smith M&P's with aftermarket Apex triggers that will rival my 1911's. They even have 1911 style thumb safeties, and with a trigger that light I wouldn't want them without the safety.

[cslinger]

There have been no new long guns designed in over 100 years with an exposed hammer.

Yeah but simply not having an “exposed” hammer doesn’t make it striker fired. It just means it a hammer that lives in a garage. . Not sure what you were getting at with this. AR’s, AK’s.....Beretta CX4 etc. all hammer fired.

Sorry I didn’t mean the above to sound like I was “calling you out”. I am just confused by the statement?