AMT Lightning

[Classic12]

While picking up a pair of 70ies S&W K frame at the LGS (and indulging in a Colt 1911 military retro), I spotted this little guy in a cabinet.

I had never seen or heard of this one. Obviously it’s a stainless Ruger Mark II target / bull barrel with a Millett sight, some tweaks and a different brand / markings and I’m a sucker for the (cheap) oddball, as long as it’s both stylish and functional. And I got a $100 off, LGS said it’s been there a long time













Fitting since I already have a bigger one

[ChasHam]

Nice!

[Scorch]

Yep, that's the pistol that got AMT sued out of existence. They thought they could do a reproduction of the Ruger Standard Auto and get away with it since the original patents had expired. They also issued a copy of the 10/22. Ruger sued them out of existence. Ruger had renewed the patents when they made design changes. AMT was liquidated to pay for the settlement. No loss, they were jam-o-matics anyway.

And just FYI, AMC and AMT are not the same company, and your 44 AMP bears no resemblance to the Lightning.

[Sevens]

Hold up a second...

It is certainly accurate to say that these are not the same companies and to use the bold term “out of existence” but both of these guns and many others, under MULTIPLE company names and locations are all children of the late, great Harry Sanford.

To make it sound like they have no relation and to make it sound like AMT ended and never returned in any form is misleading at least and wholly wrong at most.

Like too many, Harry Sanford was a gun genius but history will show that his business acumen needed some work. I and try to say that with all due respect because I’m sure there are many folks who know far more about the man and his life’s work and all that is involved.

[ChasHam]

Originally Posted by Scorch

Ruger sued them out of existence. Ruger had renewed the patents when they made design changes. AMT was liquidated to pay for the settlement. No loss, they were jam-o-matics anyway.

Not all of them.

Back in the day, I had a .45ACP Hardballer that digested an assortment of self-cast lead and jacketed reloads and a .22 Backup single action that worked just fine with whatever cheap .22 ammo K-Mart had on sale that month.

If I'm remembering correctly, what I didn't like about the Hardballer was the instruction sheet said to lube the rails with lithium grease occasionally

[NoSecondBest]

Hardly “jam o Magic’s”. I still have one I bought in the 1980’s that I used to win several IHMSA state shoots with and fire numerous 40x40s with. It never jams if kept clean and used with quality ammo. After giving up IHMSA Silhouette around 2001 I had the barrel cut down from 10” to 6” and carry it for a “woods walking” gun. Scoped and shot off bags, it will still shoot five shots into around .3” at 25 yards.

[MillCreek]

I still have a Lightning with a 10" bull barrel and several DAO Backups in .380 and 9 mm, all bought new back in the 80's and early 80's. All of them work wonderfully with contemporary lubricants. One of the 9 mm DAO backups rides with me in a handlebar bag on my electric bicycle.

[Rob228]

If I'm remembering correctly, what I didn't like about the Hardballer was the instruction sheet said to lube the rails with lithium grease occasionally

Maybe I'm the crazy one, but I only ever use grease on pistol rails.

[TX Nimrod]

I purchased my 10” bull barrel Lightning new in 1985, used it for SB silhouette for many years. It’s still going strong many thousands of rounds later, and I can’t remember ever having a jam during competition, or anytime actually. I always fed it quality ammo though.



.

[SIGSHR]

My AMT Hardballer has never let me down.

[Sharkbite]

And dont forget the “Lightning II” in 22mag!!!

[44 AMP]

Classic 12,
Which .44 AMP do you have? one of the early North Hollywood guns or Pasedena?, or the later TDE El Monte guns??

And I'm curious about the serial # (only the first few digits)

[Sevens]

Hahaha, your post specifically, the way you drop all those outer-LA towns... throw in Covina and Irwindale...

I’m not from the west coast so none of these places are familiar to me. I enjoy looking at their close proximities on a map.

To find all these cities is to view a sort of “timeline of activity” of Harry Sanford as he moved his production and changed the names of his products.

I would love to read a full, unedited biography of this man.

[44 AMP]

Auto Mags have the location on them. AMC (Auto Mag Corp) produced guns in North Hollywood and Pasedena, then went out of business. Thomas Oil Company bought the rights and parts, formed a holding company Trust Deed Estates (TDE) and hired Harry Sanford to run things, the intent was to make guns until the existing parts were used up, They went beyond that, and those guns were made in El Monte,

After TDE went under, Harry Sanford went to (or founded, I'm not sure) AMT (Arcadia Machine & Tool) which was a different company than the Auto Mag companies, and the only thing in common was Harry Sanford.

AMT produced its own "Automags" (note one word name, not two) which were completely different guns than the original Auto Mags, being a delayed blowback (Automag II .22WMR) and variants of the Browning tilt barrel lockup in Automags III, IV, and V.

AMT also produced the Hardballer, a 1911a1 variant and the Ruger clone Lightning pistol and rifle. probably also some others I don't remember right now as well.

AMT also produced the "Baby Auto Mag" which was their Lightning pistol with bolt ears and a ribbed barrel that mimiced the original Auto Mag look.

Wish I had bought one then, but I felt they wanted too much. Today those pistols are "stupid" expensive....silly me...

[Classic12]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Classic 12,
Which .44 AMP do you have? one of the early North Hollywood guns or Pasedena?, or the later TDE El Monte guns??

And I'm curious about the serial # (only the first few digits)

It is a TDE North Hollywood





Serial number :

[44 AMP]

thank you Classic 12.

I was curious. My guns are TDE El Monte's and are in the AO6xxx range.

I would guess your gun is one of the early TDE guns and one of the later/last guns made at the North Hollywood address.

(this is just off the top of my head, so might not be correct, I'll do some checking)

Again, thank you.

[hemiram]

If my Hardballer had only required some grease on the rails to get it running, I would have kept it at least a little while longer. Only really positive thing I can say about it is it was MUCH MUCH better in every way than my Colt Combat Commander was. Colt should have been ashamed of that junker to replace it, but instead they claimed to have "fixed it" and sent it back to me, all scratched up. And it was....Outa Here!

[saleen322]

The Lightning was the top 22 auto pistol when I was shooting silhouette in the 80s. It was not a "jam-o-matic" and was in fact usually the one you had to beat to win. It was legal issues and not performance that brought them down.

[bbqncigars]

Not a Lightning, but I had the opportunity to buy a virgin cased BAM from the dealer I bought my then virgin TDE 44AMP (sn AO43xx). This was a few years ago, but he offered me the BAM for $500 on top of the grand for the big one. I passed (BRILLIANT!!) because it would have meant Ramen for a month. I did not know that only 1000 BAMs were made. AAAAaargh!!!

[44 AMP]

If you got offered a "virgin" Auto Mag for only a grand, it was more than just a "few" years ago.

[Classic12]

Brought the pistol home from the LGS today.

I really like it, seems to be in great condition and a quality weapon, fit and finish are impressive. Quite heavy too for a .22, with the bull barrel, lots of steel in that gun. Can’t wait to go try it out.







I hadn’t noticed the Lightning in the “H”









German proof mark 1986 and importer’s mark, Engels in Frankfurt

[Classic12]

Millett rear sight

[Classic12]

I took it to the 25 m indoor range yesterday. It shot a bit high for my liking, so I aimed slightly below 6 o’clock



Then I rested it on a bag for fine tuning the sights



Just a couple clicks were enough to produce good results



Then some more offhand shooting



I am super happy with this pistol. I shot 110 rounds of high velocity ammo (Eley force), not a single hiccup, gun was totally reliable including the last 30 rounds at very high pace. It’s heavy but well balanced, very stable, and the trigger is very good.

[Rinspeed]

That's a good looking pistol and I'm glad it runs well.

[Hdonly]

Mine