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Old October 13, 2020, 10:42 PM   #51
Metal god
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It's interesting that the "military features" only apply to semi auto rifles and not bolt actions or single shots. Like, I guess a bayonet on an M1903 is fine, but put it on an AR and that's crossing a line.
Correct , what appears to be the excepted wording by the anti's is . ( a semi automatic centerfire rifle with a detachable magazine ) and any one of these features - pistol grip , flash hider , forward grip , barrel shroud ?? and others .

EDIT , this part deleted
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Old October 14, 2020, 04:08 PM   #52
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Mossberg Shockwave owners. Get ready!
Ready for what? Mossberg did their due diligence, unlike Q, and got the ATF to sign off on their product. https://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/...ATF-3-2-17.pdf
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Old October 15, 2020, 12:57 AM   #53
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Ready for what? Mossberg did their due diligence, unlike Q, and got the ATF to sign off on their product.
...so did Slidefire, and now their products are non-registrable "machine guns."
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Old October 15, 2020, 02:11 AM   #54
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Ready for what?

I'd say be ready for the ATF to change their mind about what is, and isn't a regulated item.

And not just Shockwave owners, all of us. Even if you don't have the affected item, we are all affected by their ability to arbitrarily change rulings, definitions and enforcement.

This is NOT A NEW THING, people...

If you have a pistol with a brace on it, be prepared for that brace to be declared a stock, and as a stock, it becomes and NFA item.

It may happen tomorrow, or next week or 6 years from now, or it may never happen, but be prepared IF it does.

Because under the current system as allowed to operate they can change their minds any time, and as often as they feel like, or so it seems, to me.
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Old October 15, 2020, 03:06 AM   #55
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Ready for what?

I'd say be ready for the ATF to change their mind about what is, and isn't a regulated item.

And not just Shockwave owners, all of us. Even if you don't have the affected item, we are all affected by their ability to arbitrarily change rulings, definitions and enforcement.

This is NOT A NEW THING, people...

If you have a pistol with a brace on it, be prepared for that brace to be declared a stock, and as a stock, it becomes and NFA item.

It may happen tomorrow, or next week or 6 years from now, or it may never happen, but be prepared IF it does.

Because under the current system as allowed to operate they can change their minds any time, and as often as they feel like, or so it seems, to me.
Which is why the legality of allowing the ATF to declare bump stocks as machine guns is such a huge deal because if the ATF can declare a semi automatic gun a machine gun due to a device that makes it shoot faster, then they can declare all semi automatic guns as readily convertible machine guns.

Nobody listen to me tho, I was saying it would be better to have the then REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED CONGRESS pass a law adding them to the NFA (and in return removing suppressors) so the ATF wouldn't be given authority to make decisions because they can and will making rulings that greatly restrict gun rights.
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Old October 15, 2020, 10:34 AM   #56
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...so did Slidefire, and now their products are non-registrable "machine guns."
And that wasn't by the ATF, was it. That was by bipartisan political hacks and President Trump.

Quote:
Ready for what?

I'd say be ready for the ATF to change their mind about what is, and isn't a regulated item.

And not just Shockwave owners, all of us. Even if you don't have the affected item, we are all affected by their ability to arbitrarily change rulings, definitions and enforcement.

This is NOT A NEW THING, people...
No, it isn't a new thing. However, the Mossberg example was poor because UNLIKE Q, Mossberg did do their due diligence and made sure things were legal. Q just went into production and sales with a product not meeting ATF specs.

This isn't a matter of the ATF changing their mind. This is a matter of Q cutting corners and screwing customers as a result.
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Old October 15, 2020, 01:32 PM   #57
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Double Naught, the ATF changed their interpretation under pressure from the President. They still did it.

It is not just a matter of getting the ATF's OK. They can and do change their opinions without us having recourse or advanced notice. This is particularly problematic when their flip-flop can suddenly put us at risk of numerous 10 year prison sentences for something we were told was perfectly legal!
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Old October 15, 2020, 02:27 PM   #58
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Good correction on Trump. Yep, they may. There is no evidence as of yet that this has happened on Q's brace. The ATF isn't after all braces, right? The did go after all bump stocks, however, but they aren't going after all braces.
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Old October 15, 2020, 03:16 PM   #59
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Has anybody heard any updates on this I keep seeing rumblings everywhere that the ATF is backing off , is that accurate ?
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Old October 15, 2020, 07:12 PM   #60
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There an article from the Washington examiner I read via citizen free press today that states a "delay", 60 days. No telling what's next though.
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Old October 16, 2020, 03:10 AM   #61
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a "delay", 60 days. No telling what's next though.
What's next is the election, and the administration of the ATF seeing who wins so they will know which way to jump to CYA on this matter.
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Old October 16, 2020, 05:53 AM   #62
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Yep! ^^^^
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Old October 16, 2020, 06:15 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
What's next is the election, and the administration of the ATF seeing who wins so they will know which way to jump to CYA on this matter.
We have a winner!
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Old October 16, 2020, 08:07 AM   #64
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I saw a response from Q co. that they will not play that game and will not resume making the Honey Badger.
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Old October 16, 2020, 01:00 PM   #65
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I saw a response from Q co. that they will not play that game and will not resume making the Honey Badger.
One wonders how much of that is "we're not going to play the game" and how much is "oh crap we're gonna get busted!!" so they take what they've already made and bail out of the market...

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Old October 17, 2020, 08:07 PM   #66
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One wonders how much of that is "we're not going to play the game" and how much is "oh crap we're gonna get busted!!" so they take what they've already made and bail out of the market...
I think it's more they don't want to sink the capital into a fight that may or may not win since they have very little support from the big legal heavyweights.
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Old October 17, 2020, 09:07 PM   #67
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I need to buy one of these things asap. It's got my favorite safety's name on it.
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Old Today, 09:50 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Ready for what? Mossberg did their due diligence
The ATF to reverse course and call it a NFA regulated weapon. That BATFE letter was a rather "liberal" interpretation of the regulation IMHO.

What is interesting to me about this board I guess is the deafening silence about what Biden will try to do and how the SCOTUS will come into play. Seems to me like the elephant in the room but maybe that's being moderated out?
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Old Today, 10:07 AM   #69
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The ATF to reverse course and call it a NFA regulated weapon. That BATFE letter was a rather "liberal" interpretation of the regulation IMHO.
Again, Q did not do their due diligence like Mossberg. They are now backtracking and submitting other products and trying to smooth things out with the use of different arm brace stocks that have been approved. Q knows they screwed up and got caught.

All this business about how they could "reverse their decision" has never been in question. For that matter, they may choose to interpret any of the laws in a different manner, not just arm braces and shotgun 'firearms' and cause problems for the rest of us gun owners. Nobody seems to concerned about that...speaking of elephants in the room.
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