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Old Yesterday, 06:50 PM   #26
FireForged
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Quote:
1. It's unreasonable to expect any type of training to fully replicate real combat. Nothing but real combat replicates real combat. Therefore, unless one takes the view that all training is useless because it doesn't fully replicate real combat, it is a given that at least some benefits can be derived from something that does not fully replicate real combat.
I do not believe that anyone suggested that they expect training to fully replicate real combat. I simply highlighting the disparity between a thoughtful attempt to simulate real issues and condition vs mimicking self defense nuances within the context of a game which is regulated for the purpose of being sporting and entertaining. One is designed to train and the other is designed to entertain.

Quote:
2. A game may or may not provide training benefit depending on how it is set up and carried through. Even if it does provide training benefit, it won't fully replicate real combat.
again, I do not believe that replicating real combat was the standard referenced in this discussion. I think the standard that I suggested was to simply training with the proper context which is absent a bunch of adverse gaming issues which you may have to constantly discriminate. I simply promote the idea that a game is a game and training is training.

Quote:
3. A "gaming mentality" is not at all the same as participating in "games". Some games are set up with a "gaming mentality", others are not. Some people participating in "games" do so with a "gaming mentality" while others focus on the potential training benefits. Even in the "practical" pistol sports, you see people who are in it purely for the win (gaming mentality) and others who are clearly trying to build good habits and consider it to be part of their training.
sure and a person might play whack a mole with the idea of improving lumber jack skills but you can see where suggesting that you develop, sharpen, further or attain skill in such a manner might be considered muddy water.
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Old Yesterday, 08:19 PM   #27
Aguila Blanca
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Originally Posted by jwamplerusa
Before discounting realistic airsoft "guns", take the time to watch this video.

https://youtu.be/qQDfwyUgtjg

All of the gentleman's for skills were learned on airsoft. Watch him acclimate to live fire.
See post #16 ...
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Old Yesterday, 09:12 PM   #28
JohnKSa
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Quote:
I simply highlighting the disparity between a thoughtful attempt to simulate real issues and condition vs mimicking self defense nuances within the context of a game which is regulated for the purpose of being sporting and entertaining. One is designed to train and the other is designed to entertain.
Some games are designed purely to entertain, some are designed with an eye to both (in differing levels), some are even designed primarily to be training. The idea that there are no games that provide training benefit is just wrong. IDPA, for example, was specifically designed with the idea of providing training value.
"IDPA is the use of practical equipment including full charge service ammunition to solve simulated real world self-defense scenarios using practical handguns and holsters that are suitable for self-defense use."
We can argue about how well they managed to do that (and I'd be the first to point out that they have failed in some respects), but regardless of the outcome it's clear that it is not true that all games are designed with only entertainment in mind.
Quote:
sure and a person might play whack a mole with the idea of improving lumber jack skills ...
I looked back at my post and I don't see anything suggesting that every possible game one could list would provide some kind of training value.
Quote:
I do not believe that replicating real combat was the standard referenced in this discussion.
Hmmm... Let me try again. Here's what I responded to:

"A gaming mentality is not really conducive to real combat simply because "you dont fight that way" and "wouldnt fight that way"."

Let me try again.

1. It's unreasonable to expect any type of training to be conducted in exactly the "way people fight". That's simply impossible. Therefore, unless one takes the view that all training is useless because it doesn't fully replicate "the way people fight", or "would fight" , it is a given that there is the possibility that at least some benefits can be derived from something that does not fully replicate "the way people fight", or "would fight".

2. A game may or may not provide training benefit depending on how it is set up and carried through. Even if it does provide training benefit, it won't fully replicate "the way people fight", or "would fight".

3. A "gaming mentality" is not at all the same as participating in "games". Some games are set up with a "gaming mentality", others are not. Some people participating in "games" do so with a "gaming mentality" while others focus on the potential training benefits. Even in the "practical" pistol sports, you see people who are in it purely for the win (gaming mentality) and others who are clearly trying to build good habits and consider it to be part of their training.

Airsoft guns and airguns help with sight alignment, trigger control, and can be used to work on some aspects of gun handling. There is the possibility that their use could provide training practice depending on how that use is structured and carried out. But they don't replicate recoil properly which limits how much one can learn from training with them.
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Old Yesterday, 09:15 PM   #29
JERRYS.
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simunitions or sim rounds as we say are great for force on force room clearing, building clearing, traffic stop, suspect persons, domestics......
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Old Yesterday, 10:01 PM   #30
Cheapshooter
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Quote:
I'm going to have to politely disagree.
I'm not so polite, just honest. The biggest pile of useless hog wash I've read on this forum! A very long and detailed pile at that!
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Old Yesterday, 11:35 PM   #31
shurshot
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Opening post...? HMmmm...
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Old Today, 12:44 AM   #32
Bill DeShivs
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Mustsa been one of them experts....
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Old Today, 08:34 AM   #33
ghbucky
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I'm not one of them experts, but IMHO, 'gaming mentality' or not, any gun handling is better than no gun handling.
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