The Form 4 How 2??? - Advise Here....

douglasschuckert · May 16, 2007, 01:47 PM

Hello all.... I'm devising this thread for all you 'experienced' people here to offer your wisdom on the Venerable F4 & NFA Laws...

How have you all received your NFA items? On the F4 there is a question asking you what your intentions are with the item you're trying to transfer?

What were your responses?

Personal Use?
Corporate Use?
Trust Use?

VUPDblue · May 16, 2007, 01:52 PM

The best answer to that question, IMO, is "For all legal purposes". One of mine says "Investment, collection, recreation". The rest all say the above phrase. I have seen some very interesting answers to this question that have been approved! There is a thread about this very thing over in the NFA section of AR15.com. I saw one where a guy got his F4 for a .22lr suppressor approved with "For Silently Stalking Squirrels" as his answer. There have been a bunch of others but they all escape memory at this moment.

shaggy · May 16, 2007, 04:35 PM

As long as the reason you state for wanting/needing the weapon in question isn't patently illegal, or strongly hints of illegality, insanity, or stupidity AND it passes muster with your CLEO it'll probably pass with BATFE. I know one person who has an approved F4 that states his reason for wanting/needing the weapon in question (a 20mm Lahti) as simply "EXCITEMENT!". I've used "for the pursuit of happiness" on several forms. I'd stay away from answers like "because the voices in my head told me to".

Dave Haven · May 16, 2007, 10:44 PM

"To enhance my firearm collection."

Personally, I've never filed a Form 4, but I've filed four Form 1's.
On those, I've used:
"For mechanism development" (Haven Mark I SMG)
"To enhance my collection of WW II weapons" (MG34)
"For system research and development" (Sionics can)
"For mechanism development and to enhance my firearm collection" (M-10)

All were approved.

raymond- · May 17, 2007, 01:54 AM

NFA Tech Branch staffer has continued to grace Subguns forum for some time.
As mentioned above, as long as you're not professing to do anything illegal,
they will nearly always, approve....all other checks absent of red flags.

(Dan Pinkney being the staff member)

Syntax360 · May 17, 2007, 08:10 AM

I went with the "For all legal purposes" reason. In hindsight, perhaps something more off-the-wall would have been a better choice.

mxwelch · May 17, 2007, 08:20 AM

I have a form 1 and form 4 and on both I used "collector".

CleverNickname · May 17, 2007, 09:30 AM

As long as you don't put a reason that's illegal or implies illegal conduct, the BATFE will approve it. "Because chicks dig 'em" was the funniest I've seen (on a form 4 for a suppressor).

douglasschuckert · May 20, 2007, 10:21 AM

"Because Chicks Dig it"... thats a good one... I would like to know what the ATF see's... I wish they could post here with what people have filed..

For my corporate F4's I guess it will be "For all legal purposes"...

I finally moved into an area that the local CLEO signes, so when my schedule permits I will begin transfering my corporate assets into my personal collection.

Being the wife is Active Duty I will do this before we transfer in 3 years.....

I love the Pensacola, FL area!!! Quiet and very beautiful beaches, calm retirement town, low crime, and good schools, and a community that doesn't mind firearms and NFA items...

With states like Colorado, Virginia, Florida, North and South Caros, and generally the southers eastern states, why would firearms nutts live in unfriendly places?

PPGMD · May 22, 2007, 08:38 PM

Quote:

I finally moved into an area that the local CLEO signes, so when my schedule permits I will begin transfering my corporate assets into my personal collection.

In the local Florida gun forum they suggest keeping NFA items in a trust or a LLC for probate reasons.

If heaven forbid you die, they are easier for you next of kin to handle compared to personal ownership as they can't take ownership unless they are transfered where as with a trust or a corp that isn't as much of an issue.

Just giving advice that others gave me, right now I am waiting for the Form 3 to get approved so I can start the Form 4 paperwork for my first suppressor when it gets to my Class 3.

I like the "Because chicks dig 'em" but I might go for something plainer for my first couple of cans.

Legion2600 · May 24, 2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

I finally moved into an area that the local CLEO signes, so when my schedule permits I will begin transfering my corporate assets into my personal collection.

You do realize this will be another $200 stamp each?

douglasschuckert · June 22, 2007, 08:09 PM

I do realize it will be another 200 fee.... I think that I might put them under a trust, but that brings into another ball of wax when I move (the wife is Active Duty). Its way eaiser to establish an LLC in the new area and file the 5320.20's for my smgs. The suppressors dont require the forms (although in the past I did them anyway).

My personal items Im still torn on what I want to do with them. Keep them registered to my company or bite the bullet and move them over to my name while I still can...... I dunno.

PAR · June 28, 2007, 10:27 PM

I've used "collector" on mine, which went through the trust. Also, used the A/B trust method so my wife can take possession with out any problems.

May 16, 2007, 01:47 PM	#1
douglasschuckert Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2007 Location: Pensacola, Florida Posts: 141	The Form 4 How 2??? - Advise Here.... Hello all.... I'm devising this thread for all you 'experienced' people here to offer your wisdom on the Venerable F4 & NFA Laws... How have you all received your NFA items? On the F4 there is a question asking you what your intentions are with the item you're trying to transfer? What were your responses? Personal Use? Corporate Use? Trust Use?

May 16, 2007, 01:52 PM	#2
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	The best answer to that question, IMO, is "For all legal purposes". One of mine says "Investment, collection, recreation". The rest all say the above phrase. I have seen some very interesting answers to this question that have been approved! There is a thread about this very thing over in the NFA section of AR15.com. I saw one where a guy got his F4 for a .22lr suppressor approved with "For Silently Stalking Squirrels" as his answer. There have been a bunch of others but they all escape memory at this moment. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

May 17, 2007, 01:54 AM	#5
raymond- Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 179	NFA Tech Branch staffer has continued to grace Subguns forum for some time. As mentioned above, as long as you're not professing to do anything illegal, they will nearly always, approve....all other checks absent of red flags. (Dan Pinkney being the staff member) __________________ raymond- 47.5N 122.2W

June 22, 2007, 08:09 PM	#12
douglasschuckert Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2007 Location: Pensacola, Florida Posts: 141	Yup I do realize it will be another 200 fee.... I think that I might put them under a trust, but that brings into another ball of wax when I move (the wife is Active Duty). Its way eaiser to establish an LLC in the new area and file the 5320.20's for my smgs. The suppressors dont require the forms (although in the past I did them anyway). My personal items Im still torn on what I want to do with them. Keep them registered to my company or bite the bullet and move them over to my name while I still can...... I dunno. __________________ Write your representative and say no to HR 1022!!! (Yet another $%$(&^-up law)! http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=2668 - HR 1022 Assault Weapons Ban & Law Enforcement Protection Act (2007) http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/409898348 - Online Petition against! DO YOUR PART, WRITE YOUR DAMN REP, and DEMAND VETO!

May 16, 2007, 04:35 PM	#3
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	As long as the reason you state for wanting/needing the weapon in question isn't patently illegal, or strongly hints of illegality, insanity, or stupidity AND it passes muster with your CLEO it'll probably pass with BATFE. I know one person who has an approved F4 that states his reason for wanting/needing the weapon in question (a 20mm Lahti) as simply "EXCITEMENT!". I've used "for the pursuit of happiness" on several forms. I'd stay away from answers like "because the voices in my head told me to".

May 16, 2007, 10:44 PM	#4
Dave Haven Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2000 Location: near Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 790	"To enhance my firearm collection." Personally, I've never filed a Form 4, but I've filed four Form 1's. On those, I've used: "For mechanism development" (Haven Mark I SMG) "To enhance my collection of WW II weapons" (MG34) "For system research and development" (Sionics can) "For mechanism development and to enhance my firearm collection" (M-10) All were approved.

May 17, 2007, 08:10 AM	#6
Syntax360 Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2006 Location: Grand Prairie, TX Posts: 694	I went with the "For all legal purposes" reason. In hindsight, perhaps something more off-the-wall would have been a better choice.

May 17, 2007, 08:20 AM	#7
mxwelch Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2006 Posts: 379	I have a form 1 and form 4 and on both I used "collector".

May 17, 2007, 09:30 AM	#8
CleverNickname Member Join Date: August 3, 2002 Posts: 69	As long as you don't put a reason that's illegal or implies illegal conduct, the BATFE will approve it. "Because chicks dig 'em" was the funniest I've seen (on a form 4 for a suppressor).

May 20, 2007, 10:21 AM	#9
douglasschuckert Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2007 Location: Pensacola, Florida Posts: 141	"Because Chicks Dig it"... thats a good one... I would like to know what the ATF see's... I wish they could post here with what people have filed.. For my corporate F4's I guess it will be "For all legal purposes"... I finally moved into an area that the local CLEO signes, so when my schedule permits I will begin transfering my corporate assets into my personal collection. Being the wife is Active Duty I will do this before we transfer in 3 years..... I love the Pensacola, FL area!!! Quiet and very beautiful beaches, calm retirement town, low crime, and good schools, and a community that doesn't mind firearms and NFA items... With states like Colorado, Virginia, Florida, North and South Caros, and generally the southers eastern states, why would firearms nutts live in unfriendly places?

June 28, 2007, 10:27 PM	#13
PAR Member Join Date: June 1, 2007 Location: North Texas Posts: 22	I've used "collector" on mine, which went through the trust. Also, used the A/B trust method so my wife can take possession with out any problems.