6.5 Hunter

NorthernScout · December 9, 2019, 02:42 PM

Good afternoon all,

I've got a question regarding a wildcat cartridge/rifle my father made with Wes Ugalde & Skip Talbot back when he was stationed in Fallon.

Attached is the original diagram he drew up and sent to RCBS to have dies created, and it says that it's built on .308 Win.

The dies through the years have grown legs, and try as I may, I haven't been able to find them. Is it easy enough to have new dies created for this? Or has enough time past (40 ish years) that there might already be dies out there for something like this?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you for your time!

Doyle · December 9, 2019, 03:24 PM

Unless you are just nostalgic and want to do what your father did, I'd be curious as to the "why". The dimensions you posted are pretty much a .260 Rem but with everything shorter by about a quarter of an inch. 40 years ago, a .308 necked down to .6.5mm was indeed a wildcat. Today, the 6.5mm version of a .308 is the commercial .260Rem.

NorthernScout · December 9, 2019, 04:44 PM

Doyle,

Thanks for the info! I'm still new to all this stuff, but yeah it would be mostly for nostalgia purposes. I'll be sure to take a look at the .260 as well. Thanks again!

reynolds357 · December 9, 2019, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthernScout

Good afternoon all,

I've got a question regarding a wildcat cartridge/rifle my father made with Wes Ugalde & Skip Talbot back when he was stationed in Fallon.

Attached is the original diagram he drew up and sent to RCBS to have dies created, and it says that it's built on .308 Win.

The dies through the years have grown legs, and try as I may, I haven't been able to find them. Is it easy enough to have new dies created for this? Or has enough time past (40 ish years) that there might already be dies out there for something like this?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you for your time!

You can get custom dies from Hornady pretty easy and quick. Last set I ordered, I had to send them 3 or 5 pieces of fired brass. (Either 3 or 5, cant remember which)

Scorch · December 10, 2019, 02:14 AM

At first I thought it might be a 6.5 International, but no. That cartridge is shorter than a 250 Savage case, shorter than 260 Rem, only about 1/4" longer than a BR case. If you have a friend that reloads, you can make and form cases easy enough, but it's going to be an unusual one. Wes Ugalde and Skip Talbot are both dead, so you can't call them to find out what it might be.

NorthernScout · December 10, 2019, 10:12 AM

Scorch,

I know, it's a bummer they're both gone; sucks that I'm just now getting into this when I could have had help straight from the source if I had got into this when I was younger.

Reynolds357,

I'll take a look at their website to see what I can find, thank you for the info!

std7mag · December 10, 2019, 01:08 PM

After some searching, i've unfortunately come up empty.
All is not lost though!
My recommendation is to call RCBS, and Pacific Tool and Gage.
If the dies were made, and the chamber was cut, then they will have the records for it.
Both keep all the records of such things. They have files of thousands (tens of thousands) of wildcat cartridges.
Give them the dimensional info and who did it.

Something you may want to consider though is calling PTG first. If they have the reamers on file, get the reamers for the dies, not the chamber, get a blank die from them ($20), and have it reamed at your local machine shop or gunsmith.
Much cheaper than the $500 or more for custom dies from RCBS.

NorthernScout · December 10, 2019, 02:46 PM

std7mag,

I emailed RCBS through their 'Contact Us' page and asked if they did custom dies; this was prior to me finding out that the original dies were ordered through them, this was also over 40 years ago mind you, but I'll give them a call to see. Thank you for the info!

T. O'Heir · December 10, 2019, 02:56 PM

The .260 Remington is based on the .308 Win. It has 40 degree shoulder angle vs your pop's 30 degrees. And 1997 isn't 40 years ago.
According to Huntington Die Specialties, Vista Outdoors, RCBS' holding company/owner, has discontinued making custom dies.
I suspect it'd cost a ton of money to get Pacific Tool and GaUge to make 'em. Doesn't appear they do that anyway. However, Hornady does.
https://www.hornady.com/reloading/dies/custom-dies#!/

**Unclenick** · December 10, 2019, 03:43 PM

I believe Redding and Lee will both let you make custom orders, too. The price is probably not the same, though.

FrankenMauser · December 10, 2019, 03:48 PM

CH4D and Hornady make custom dies at fairly reasonable prices.
I have some of each.

My interpretation of "reasonable" may differ from your own, though.

Wildcatting ain't cheap!

Lee, too. (I have some of those, as well.) And the quality is usually better than the garbage-grade standard inventory items. But I prefer other brands.

NorthernScout · December 10, 2019, 04:48 PM

T. O'Heir,

40ish years ago is when the original dies were ordered through RCBS, I apologize for the poor wording.

Unclenick & FrankenMauser,
I'll check those guys out as well, thank you for the info!

std7mag · December 11, 2019, 03:17 AM

And T. O. misunderstood what i was saying.
Call PTG and ask about the reamers.
Typical reamers from them run about $159.
They also sell blank dies, that YOU can ream for about $20.
Last time i contacted RCBS about specialty dies it was over $500.
Both they and RCBS have records kept from about the time they opened.

And T.O.,
The shoulder angle as typically measured is 20° from the centerline on the 260.
Your 40° is shoulder to shoulder with the center line of radius at the case mouth.

**Unclenick** · December 11, 2019, 12:27 PM

That's a difference between SAAMI and CIP as well. SAAMI uses the half-angle (20°) while the CIP uses the included angle (40°).

December 10, 2019, 02:14 AM	#5
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	At first I thought it might be a 6.5 International, but no. That cartridge is shorter than a 250 Savage case, shorter than 260 Rem, only about 1/4" longer than a BR case. If you have a friend that reloads, you can make and form cases easy enough, but it's going to be an unusual one. Wes Ugalde and Skip Talbot are both dead, so you can't call them to find out what it might be. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

December 10, 2019, 01:08 PM	#7
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	After some searching, i've unfortunately come up empty. All is not lost though! My recommendation is to call RCBS, and Pacific Tool and Gage. If the dies were made, and the chamber was cut, then they will have the records for it. Both keep all the records of such things. They have files of thousands (tens of thousands) of wildcat cartridges. Give them the dimensional info and who did it. Something you may want to consider though is calling PTG first. If they have the reamers on file, get the reamers for the dies, not the chamber, get a blank die from them ($20), and have it reamed at your local machine shop or gunsmith. Much cheaper than the $500 or more for custom dies from RCBS. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

December 10, 2019, 02:56 PM	#9
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	The .260 Remington is based on the .308 Win. It has 40 degree shoulder angle vs your pop's 30 degrees. And 1997 isn't 40 years ago. According to Huntington Die Specialties, Vista Outdoors, RCBS' holding company/owner, has discontinued making custom dies. I suspect it'd cost a ton of money to get Pacific Tool and GaUge to make 'em. Doesn't appear they do that anyway. However, Hornady does. https://www.hornady.com/reloading/dies/custom-dies#!/ __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

December 10, 2019, 03:43 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	I believe Redding and Lee will both let you make custom orders, too. The price is probably not the same, though. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 10, 2019, 03:48 PM	#11
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	CH4D and Hornady make custom dies at fairly reasonable prices. I have some of each. My interpretation of "reasonable" may differ from your own, though. Wildcatting ain't cheap! Lee, too. (I have some of those, as well.) And the quality is usually better than the garbage-grade standard inventory items. But I prefer other brands. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

December 9, 2019, 03:24 PM	#2
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Unless you are just nostalgic and want to do what your father did, I'd be curious as to the "why". The dimensions you posted are pretty much a .260 Rem but with everything shorter by about a quarter of an inch. 40 years ago, a .308 necked down to .6.5mm was indeed a wildcat. Today, the 6.5mm version of a .308 is the commercial .260Rem.

December 9, 2019, 04:44 PM	#3
NorthernScout Junior Member Join Date: December 9, 2019 Posts: 5	Doyle, Thanks for the info! I'm still new to all this stuff, but yeah it would be mostly for nostalgia purposes. I'll be sure to take a look at the .260 as well. Thanks again!

December 10, 2019, 10:12 AM	#6
NorthernScout Junior Member Join Date: December 9, 2019 Posts: 5	Scorch, I know, it's a bummer they're both gone; sucks that I'm just now getting into this when I could have had help straight from the source if I had got into this when I was younger. Reynolds357, I'll take a look at their website to see what I can find, thank you for the info!

December 10, 2019, 02:46 PM	#8
NorthernScout Junior Member Join Date: December 9, 2019 Posts: 5	std7mag, I emailed RCBS through their 'Contact Us' page and asked if they did custom dies; this was prior to me finding out that the original dies were ordered through them, this was also over 40 years ago mind you, but I'll give them a call to see. Thank you for the info!

December 10, 2019, 04:48 PM	#12
NorthernScout Junior Member Join Date: December 9, 2019 Posts: 5	T. O'Heir, 40ish years ago is when the original dies were ordered through RCBS, I apologize for the poor wording. Unclenick & FrankenMauser, I'll check those guys out as well, thank you for the info!

December 11, 2019, 03:17 AM	#13
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	And T. O. misunderstood what i was saying. Call PTG and ask about the reamers. Typical reamers from them run about $159. They also sell blank dies, that YOU can ream for about $20. Last time i contacted RCBS about specialty dies it was over $500. Both they and RCBS have records kept from about the time they opened. And T.O., The shoulder angle as typically measured is 20° from the centerline on the 260. Your 40° is shoulder to shoulder with the center line of radius at the case mouth. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope... Last edited by std7mag; December 11, 2019 at 03:27 AM.

December 11, 2019, 12:27 PM	#14
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	That's a difference between SAAMI and CIP as well. SAAMI uses the half-angle (20°) while the CIP uses the included angle (40°). __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle