How do I use this thing?

DirtyHarold · September 21, 2019, 09:06 PM

I just picked up this neat little thing at a local swap meet for a cool $49. It’s got “AMR C-28” stamped into it, and made in Spain.

The thing is I’ve never had a Muzzleloading firearm before so I’m trying to figure out how to work this thing. It’s smooth bore 50 caliber (measures like .53”) and it’s about a 12” barrel.

What load should I try with this thing to start off with? Definitely not interested in hot loading, just fun lobbing some lead.

Grains and powder type?
How do I determine true projectile size?
What sort of primers?

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**44 AMP** · September 21, 2019, 10:37 PM

Its a percussion pistol. Made to use black powder, and percussion caps.

DO NOT USE ANY KIND OF SMOKELESS GUNPOWDER!!!

moving to the Blackpowder forum. I think you'll get better information there..

Cheapshooter · September 21, 2019, 11:22 PM

First re-post in the Black Powder and Cowboy Action forum below. Might get a better answer quicker there.
You most likely will shoot a .490 round lead ball with a greased patch. I think I would start with a .015 patch. Although the most fun comes with the real deal genuine black powder, equivalent substitutes like Pyrodex P will be easier to find. You will not weigh the charges, but rather use a volumetric measure. Black powder substitutes weigh less than real black powder, but the energy, and thus charge is equal in volume to specific black powder weights. Hope I'm making this clear. A measure that holds say 50 grains of black powder holds the proper amount of Pyrodex to equal the energy of 50 grains of black powder.
I would use the old rule of thumb of 1/2 bore diameter for the grains of powder in a M/L pistol. Something like 20-25 grains (equivalent)
You can get an adjustable powder measure for muzzle loading.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002220681?pid=431413
.490 round ball
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1165132904
Patch
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2509132216?pid=529937
Powder
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013083717?pid=851587
Cap
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1301148547?pid=148547
A capper makes putting the caps on easier
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002229572?pid=949569

The links to Midway are more for example than a source. Most gun stores, and big box outdoor stores like Bass Pro will have what you need.

horseman308 · September 22, 2019, 06:55 AM

As noted above, your basic Bass Pro or local gun shop should have the basics. You'll need the powder measure for safety - NEVER POUR DIRECTLY FROM THE CAN TO THE GUN!

Start with a 25g charge, a .490 or .495 round ball and some cotton patching. Really, old t-shirts will suffice. You can lube patches with crisco or even spit. Just make sure you seat the patched ball firmly on the powder charge. NEVER LEAVE AIR SPACE BETWEEN THE POWDER AND BALL! The way black powder burns (explodes), an air gap will cause a pressure spike and can rupture or bulge the barrel.

Last, make sure to thoroughly clean, dry, and lightly oil after each shooting session. You can use warm water and a little dish soap. Black powder absorbs moisture and will corrode much faster than smokeless.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

jaguarxk120 · September 22, 2019, 08:24 AM

Use the local gun shop, not Bass Pro. The guy's at BP were slinging burgers
just weeks ago. Asking them for advice is like having them do brain surgery!!!!

Find a local sportsmans club that has black powder shooters, someone
in that group will help you.

When cleaning black powder guns the best solvent is WATER and dawn detergent.
All that stuff packaged and on the shelf is made to clean your wallet.

**4V50 Gary** · September 22, 2019, 10:11 AM

Remember the three firearm safety rules applies also to muzzle loaders.
1) Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction
2) Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot
3) Keep it unloaded until you are ready to use it

Accoutrements you need:

I'd like a solid brass ramrod that is threaded on the end
jag (for ramming ball down and for cleaning)
stuck ball remover
patch remover
optional: tang/breech plug scraper

Powder flask or horn
nipple wrench
nipple pick
powder measure
Ball starter

Other useful things:
possibles bag
tin to hold accoutrements (Altoids can does this well, but a circular one looks better
2" cloth patches (for cleaning)

Cap holder (you can make one out of stiff leather)
Stand (you can make it with two pieces of wood and a hinge). it holds the pistol upright when you load it.

Shooting Supplies (powder, patches, balls, cleaning patches)

Use only pure lead balls (probably .490 caliber)
For patch material, you can use greased patches but do not use synthetic material. Pure cotton.
You need 2FF black powder. 3F is OK, but reduce the load. Store the blackpowder in its original container. It is OK to store it in a powder flask or horn, but if you do, make sure you don't have two identical flasks or horns especially if you have two different types of powder.
Caps. Probably #11 caps

Preliminary step (at home):
Put the jag on the ramrod and drop it down the barrel. You should hear a metallic clang and that will tell you that the barrel is empty. Mark the ramrod at the muzzle. This can always be used to tell you whether it is loaded or not.

Shooting and cleanup
At the Range:
First step:
Using the jag on the ramrod, push a dry cotton patch down the bore to remove any oil or grease.
Put a cap on the nipple. Hold the gun pointed down near a blade of grass. Fire the cap. If the grass moves, that tells you that the bore is clear and ready to load.

Loading procedure:
Using the powder measure, pour 30 grains FF powder down the bore
Place patch on muzzle.
Put ball on patch.
With short starter, push the ball and patch into the barrel.
Ram the ball and patch down all the way down the barrel until they are on top of the powder.
Put a cap on the nipple (at the firing line)
Shoot!

Post shooting Cleaning.
You may dismount the barrel. If you can't, that's OK. Soak a cotton patch in water and push the wet patch down the bore. Black powder residue is hygroscopic and will attract moisture and rust. Muzzle loaders must be cleaned the same day it is shot. Continue pushing wet patches until they come out white. Push a dry patch down the barrel. Then an oiled patch (I use Ballistol) to protect the bore.

Remove the nipple and flush it. Wipe down and oil.

Wipe the exterior down.

Pahoo · September 22, 2019, 11:11 AM

Harold
Interesting piece and even though you are new to M/L's, it would be fun to work with this one …

Questions;
1. Confirm that it is not loaded
2. Cannot tell by the picture does it have a round barrel? I see that it is pinned.
3. You are going to have to determine if it takes a Musket cap, #11 or whatever.
4. You have the option of shooting buckshot out of this one.
5. Can you tell the condition of the bore. ???

Enjoy and;
Be Safe !!!

Cheapshooter · September 22, 2019, 11:42 AM

Information on a similar pistol from Spain. Taken from the linked forum.
https://www.reddit.com/r/blackpowder..._black_powder/

Quote:

AMR is the maker. Actually looks like it was sold like that and a flintlock version was also available.

C-44 is the model. A Kentucky reproduction. Not worth a heap, a bit of internet searching says about $50-100 depending on the condition.

Found this comment (translated from Spanish) on a youtube video of an identical looking gun:

Hello. Spanish is a replica of the Kentucky pistol in .44 or 45 made in the 70s and early 80s in Eibar, Spain. The gun is made by AMR (Antonio Marcos Reread), Basque fabriante. It is a cheap way to hang on the parez but you can also shoot her gun, but the key does not lead flange. Shoot the ball well with 433 or 440 or 2 tenths Calepino ball without Calepino 457, ie forced with load of 20 grains of black powder FFFG.

Note the model number of this 44 caliber example is C-44, and the smooth bore of your pistol could the C-28 actually be 28 guage which is .550?
Even if it is designated as 28 ga, with proper patches it should shoot a round ball as well as any smooth bore pistol.

SIGSHR · September 22, 2019, 01:25 PM

I do not see a rear sight on it, a search on Google Images shows similar ones, no rear sight and at most a tree stump front sight.

DirtyHarold · September 23, 2019, 11:53 AM

So if the powder goes by volume, what volume of powder is a good starting point?

Would any black powder primer work or is there a specific type I need to look for?

It would make sense it’s a 28 gauge. What would be a good shot load to try out? (Shot size and amount)

Thanks for all the help so far

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSHR

I do not see a rear sight on it, a search on Google Images shows similar ones, no rear sight and at most a tree stump front sight.

It has a rear notch sight. Not great but it’ll do the job.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cheapshooter · September 23, 2019, 03:29 PM

The powder charge recomendations will be in grains(weight). Use an adjustable powder measure like I mentioned earlier. Set it at 25 grains. That is based on the weight of black powder. If you can find the real thing, black powder is the most fun. But the dirtiest, and smokiest. But that's part of the fun. You will need FFF or it might say FFFG. That refers to the coarsness of the powder. F being the most coarse, FFFF the finest.
The volumetric measure was only mentioned so you don't try to weigh a charge of Pyrodex. Whatever the weight, Pyrodex will measure out to be the proper equivalent of what ever grains of black powder the measure is set at.
Its much more likely you will find Pyrodex than real black powder because or storage issues, and regulations.
You will need Pyrodex P.
The "primers' are actually called percussion caps. The most common are #11 or Musket caps. Your pistol more than likely will take a #11 percussion cap.
Shot size if you want to shoot shot out of it, just about anything you want to throw in it. With shot you will need extra wadding, and over shot wads.
I think I would just try a .490 round ball with a .015 patch over a 25 gr.load of black powder, or Pyrodex.
After reading up on shooting muzzle loaders of course.
Try these articles.
https://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloading_basics.htm
http://guide.sportsmansguide.com/tip...r-enthusiasts/
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/muzzleloading-basics/

DirtyHarold · September 23, 2019, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheapshooter

The powder charge recomendations will be in grains(weight). Use an adjustable powder measure like I mentioned earlier. Set it at 25 grains. That is based on the weight of black powder. If you can find the real thing, black powder is the most fun. But the dirtiest, and smokiest. But that's part of the fun. You will need FFF or it might say FFFG. That refers to the coarsness of the powder. F being the most coarse, FFFF the finest.
The volumetric measure was only mentioned so you don't try to weigh a charge of Pyrodex. Whatever the weight, Pyrodex will measure out to be the proper equivalent of what ever grains of black powder the measure is set at.
Its much more likely you will find Pyrodex than real black powder because or storage issues, and regulations.
You will need Pyrodex P.
The "primers' are actually called percussion caps. The most common are #11 or Musket caps. Your pistol more than likely will take a #11 percussion cap.
Shot size if you want to shoot shot out of it, just about anything you want to throw in it. With shot you will need extra wadding, and over shot wads.
I think I would just try a .490 round ball with a .015 patch over a 25 gr.load of black powder, or Pyrodex.
After reading up on shooting muzzle loaders of course.
Try these articles.
https://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloading_basics.htm
http://guide.sportsmansguide.com/tip...r-enthusiasts/
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/muzzleloading-basics/

Thanks for all the good info! I’m excited to try this thing out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

T. O'Heir · September 24, 2019, 01:19 PM

1024 pixels is too big.
Go buy a copy of Lyman's BP Handbook and Reloading Guide. About $30 at Amazon or direct from Lyman. Tell you everything you ever wanted or needed to know about shooting BP firearms. And it's in grains by volume.

September 21, 2019, 10:37 PM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	Its a percussion pistol. Made to use black powder, and percussion caps. DO NOT USE ANY KIND OF SMOKELESS GUNPOWDER!!! moving to the Blackpowder forum. I think you'll get better information there.. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

September 21, 2019, 11:22 PM	#3
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	First re-post in the Black Powder and Cowboy Action forum below. Might get a better answer quicker there. You most likely will shoot a .490 round lead ball with a greased patch. I think I would start with a .015 patch. Although the most fun comes with the real deal genuine black powder, equivalent substitutes like Pyrodex P will be easier to find. You will *not* weigh the charges, but rather use a volumetric measure. Black powder substitutes weigh less than real black powder, but the energy, and thus charge is equal in volume to specific black powder weights. Hope I'm making this clear. A measure that holds say 50 grains of black powder holds the proper amount of Pyrodex to equal the energy of 50 grains of black powder. I would use the old rule of thumb of 1/2 bore diameter for the grains of powder in a M/L pistol. Something like 20-25 grains (equivalent) You can get an adjustable powder measure for muzzle loading. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002220681?pid=431413 .490 round ball https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1165132904 Patch https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2509132216?pid=529937 Powder https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013083717?pid=851587 Cap https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1301148547?pid=148547 A capper makes putting the caps on easier https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002229572?pid=949569 The links to Midway are more for example than a source. Most gun stores, and big box outdoor stores like Bass Pro will have what you need. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

September 22, 2019, 10:11 AM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	Remember the three firearm safety rules applies also to muzzle loaders. 1) Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction 2) Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot 3) Keep it unloaded until you are ready to use it Accoutrements you need: I'd like a solid brass ramrod that is threaded on the end jag (for ramming ball down and for cleaning) stuck ball remover patch remover optional: tang/breech plug scraper Powder flask or horn nipple wrench nipple pick powder measure Ball starter Other useful things: possibles bag tin to hold accoutrements (Altoids can does this well, but a circular one looks better 2" cloth patches (for cleaning) Cap holder (you can make one out of stiff leather) Stand (you can make it with two pieces of wood and a hinge). it holds the pistol upright when you load it. Shooting Supplies (powder, patches, balls, cleaning patches) Use only pure lead balls (probably .490 caliber) For patch material, you can use greased patches but do not use synthetic material. Pure cotton. You need 2FF black powder. 3F is OK, but reduce the load. Store the blackpowder in its original container. It is OK to store it in a powder flask or horn, but if you do, make sure you don't have two identical flasks or horns especially if you have two different types of powder. Caps. Probably #11 caps Preliminary step (at home): Put the jag on the ramrod and drop it down the barrel. You should hear a metallic clang and that will tell you that the barrel is empty. Mark the ramrod at the muzzle. This can always be used to tell you whether it is loaded or not. Shooting and cleanup At the Range: First step: Using the jag on the ramrod, push a dry cotton patch down the bore to remove any oil or grease. Put a cap on the nipple. Hold the gun pointed down near a blade of grass. Fire the cap. If the grass moves, that tells you that the bore is clear and ready to load. Loading procedure: Using the powder measure, pour 30 grains FF powder down the bore Place patch on muzzle. Put ball on patch. With short starter, push the ball and patch into the barrel. Ram the ball and patch down all the way down the barrel until they are on top of the powder. Put a cap on the nipple (at the firing line) Shoot! Post shooting Cleaning. You may dismount the barrel. If you can't, that's OK. Soak a cotton patch in water and push the wet patch down the bore. Black powder residue is hygroscopic and will attract moisture and rust. Muzzle loaders must be cleaned the same day it is shot. Continue pushing wet patches until they come out white. Push a dry patch down the barrel. Then an oiled patch (I use Ballistol) to protect the bore. Remove the nipple and flush it. Wipe down and oil. Wipe the exterior down. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 22, 2019, 11:11 AM	#7
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Could be fun to shoot Harold Interesting piece and even though you are new to M/L's, it would be fun to work with this one … Questions; 1. Confirm that it is not loaded 2. Cannot tell by the picture does it have a round barrel? I see that it is pinned. 3. You are going to have to determine if it takes a Musket cap, #11 or whatever. 4. You have the option of shooting buckshot out of this one. 5. Can you tell the condition of the bore. ??? Enjoy and; Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

September 24, 2019, 01:19 PM	#13
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	1024 pixels is too big. Go buy a copy of Lyman's BP Handbook and Reloading Guide. About $30 at Amazon or direct from Lyman. Tell you everything you ever wanted or needed to know about shooting BP firearms. And it's in grains by volume. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 21, 2019, 09:06 PM	#1
DirtyHarold Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2015 Posts: 158	How do I use this thing? I just picked up this neat little thing at a local swap meet for a cool $49. It’s got “AMR C-28” stamped into it, and made in Spain. The thing is I’ve never had a Muzzleloading firearm before so I’m trying to figure out how to work this thing. It’s smooth bore 50 caliber (measures like .53”) and it’s about a 12” barrel. What load should I try with this thing to start off with? Definitely not interested in hot loading, just fun lobbing some lead. Grains and powder type? How do I determine true projectile size? What sort of primers? Thanks! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

September 22, 2019, 06:55 AM	#4
horseman308 Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 526	As noted above, your basic Bass Pro or local gun shop should have the basics. You'll need the powder measure for safety - NEVER POUR DIRECTLY FROM THE CAN TO THE GUN! Start with a 25g charge, a .490 or .495 round ball and some cotton patching. Really, old t-shirts will suffice. You can lube patches with crisco or even spit. Just make sure you seat the patched ball firmly on the powder charge. NEVER LEAVE AIR SPACE BETWEEN THE POWDER AND BALL! The way black powder burns (explodes), an air gap will cause a pressure spike and can rupture or bulge the barrel. Last, make sure to thoroughly clean, dry, and lightly oil after each shooting session. You can use warm water and a little dish soap. Black powder absorbs moisture and will corrode much faster than smokeless. Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

September 22, 2019, 08:24 AM	#5
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	Use the local gun shop, not Bass Pro. The guy's at BP were slinging burgers just weeks ago. Asking them for advice is like having them do brain surgery!!!! Find a local sportsmans club that has black powder shooters, someone in that group will help you. When cleaning black powder guns the best solvent is WATER and dawn detergent. All that stuff packaged and on the shelf is made to clean your wallet.

September 22, 2019, 01:25 PM	#9
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	I do not see a rear sight on it, a search on Google Images shows similar ones, no rear sight and at most a tree stump front sight.

September 23, 2019, 03:29 PM	#11
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	The powder charge recomendations will be in grains(weight). Use an adjustable powder measure like I mentioned earlier. Set it at 25 grains. That is based on the weight of black powder. If you can find the real thing, black powder is the most fun. But the dirtiest, and smokiest. But that's part of the fun. You will need FFF or it might say FFFG. That refers to the coarsness of the powder. F being the most coarse, FFFF the finest. The volumetric measure was only mentioned so you don't try to weigh a charge of Pyrodex. Whatever the weight, Pyrodex will measure out to be the proper equivalent of what ever grains of black powder the measure is set at. Its much more likely you will find Pyrodex than real black powder because or storage issues, and regulations. You will need Pyrodex P. The "primers' are actually called percussion caps. The most common are #11 or Musket caps. Your pistol more than likely will take a #11 percussion cap. Shot size if you want to shoot shot out of it, just about anything you want to throw in it. With shot you will need extra wadding, and over shot wads. I think I would just try a .490 round ball with a .015 patch over a 25 gr.load of black powder, or Pyrodex. *After* reading up on shooting muzzle loaders of course. Try these articles. https://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloading_basics.htm http://guide.sportsmansguide.com/tip...r-enthusiasts/ https://www.pewpewtactical.com/muzzleloading-basics/ __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!