What is a good, cheap first hunting rifle for a 13 year old?

[Boomer58cal]

Why anyone on this site would tell the boys to get an Xbox instead of learning to shoot/hunt at age 13 is beyond me. I started shooting at age 5, shot in my first Pwee shoot at age 7 and accompanied my father on hunting trips from then on.

If the boys mature enough to safely handle a firearm, it's time to go hunting.

Don't let anyone discourage you boy you're on the right track!

Boomer

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by Bharrigan915

By buy it for myself i mean pay for it. I know i cant actually purchase it, i would have my dad do that.

Actually, that would also be illegal. One of the questions on the form 4473 that your father will have to fill out is:

11a Are you the actual transfree/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) for another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer can not transfer the firearm(s) to you.

The form instruction include this:

Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer “NO” to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer “YES” to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), (n), or (x). Please note: EXCEPTION: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.

In other words, your father may buy the firearm for himself and let you use it or he may buy the firearm for you as a gift with his own money (actual time of possession depending on state law) but he CAN NOT buy it for you with your money.

[Bharrigan915]

Maybe i should get a .22 first then wait until next year or so to get a high powered hunting rifle. For that im pretty confident about the marlin xt-22yr. Would you reccomend that I wait because this would be my first rifle (other than a crosman 760 pumpmaster bb gun)?

[Spats McGee]

I don't know enough about that particular model to comment on it, but I've always heard good things about Marlins. With that said, a good .22 rifle belongs in the stable of every shooter, IMO. There's no substitute for trigger time, and even in today's (expensive) ammo climate, it's the cheapest thing to shoot. Let's also not forget that plinking with a .22 is just plain old fun!

[OEF-Vet]

Spats McGee

A good .22 rifle belongs in the stable of every shooter, IMO. There's no substitute for trigger time, and even in today's (expensive) ammo climate, it's the cheapest thing to shoot. Let's also not forget that plinking with a .22 is just plain old fun!

I agree with Spats on the .22

I have always had good luck with Marlins. In fact my 35 year old Marlin model 25 is one of may favorite guns to shoot and surely gets the most shooting time.
I think you are making a good choice going with a bolt action since you intend to use a bolt action for deer hunting when the time comes.

In the meantime if your parents don't shoot and can't mentor you a family member or family friend who is experienced and is agreeable to you and your parents would be a good idea. I'm sure you will have many questions as you begin your adventures in shooting and hunting. As you gain good habits and skills your mentor may own different rifles for you to shoot and get a good feel for what deer rifle and caliber will suit you when the time comes.

Good luck young man I am sure you will do well, you are already headed in the right direction by asking questions and learning about your interest prior to jumping in. This is a good trait to have in all aspects of life.

[02bigdogs17]

Can't go wrong with the Savage Axis. I own 2 of them one in .223 and one in .243 and both will shoot groups less than an inch @ 100yds. I think I would go with the .308 caliber

[Bharrigan915]

Do you guys think i need a youth rifle or a full sized one?

[Brian Pfleuger]

That's going to depend on how you fit the gun, or how it fits you. Hold the gun with your finger on the trigger, have someone measure back to your bicep. That will tell you the length of pull in inches.

[Sgt Pepper]

Bharrigan, I think I paid $450 for mine new. I've seen them on sale for as low as $400 and otherwise retailed for as high as $550. Those are all Series 2 synthetic rifles.

The Vanguard 2 youth model comes with a butt pad extension which gives you the "adult" size length of pull. Youth models have 20" barrels and "adult" models have 24" barrels. The youth model with the butt pad extension ends up being the same rifle as the carbine model which has the "adult" stock with the "youth" barrel. The youth and carbine models also comes with the same sub-MOA accuracy guarantee as the full-size models. Make sense? Youth models generally go for about $50 less and are easily found in .223, 2.43, and 7mm-08 calibers.

[cdbeagle]

Cdbeagle what brand? That sounds like a good idea with the spacers.


Weatherby S2.

[tahunua001]

At first you said deer rifle. Then you added black bear to the equation.
For just deer, a .243 would be hands down choice. Perfect deer caliber. But not enough gun for black bear, IMHO.
Go with the .308. It will handle anything on the continent up to grizzly bears. Some would argue for the 30-06, my personal choice, but it does have some kick a 13 year old might not want to handle. Any of the brands mentioned are fine. But, I often reccomend the "Pawn Shop" brand. Bargains can be found in pawn shops. Shop with care and don't be afraid to negotiate.

sorry for the late response but I've been out for a couple days. if you look at marlins website they actually recommend 243 for black bear as does ATK on the side of their 243 powershok bullets. I personally killed my first black bear this spring with a not so great shot with a not so great 140gr bullet traveling a very slow 2000 FPS out of my 6.5 japanese arisaka at a little over 100 yards.

somehow a well crafted 100gr bullet traveling a little over 3000fps in a 243 sounds just as capable as a 160gr bullet traveling 2600FPS out of a 308. black bear are not in the same league as grizzlies nd other large bears. you don't need a team like the Seattle mariners to beat the Norfolk admirals....

as to the OP's latest query: I personally would not recommend a youth rifle. if you are already 5'3 then a youth rifle is already going to be a little on the small side and by the age of 15 it will be way too small for you. a standard weight/length rifle would be best for you in my opinion.

[Bharrigan915]

My pumpmaster has a 11-12 in. stock and it is tiny for me so i should probably get the adult sized rifle, right? Does anyone know the average stock length of an adult rifle?

[Brian Pfleuger]

Adult rifle have a Length of Pull (LOP) of 13.5-14.5", usually. Measure as I indicated above and you'll know what you need.

[cdbeagle]

Cdbeagle what brand? That sounds like a good idea with the spacers.

Vanguard S2.

[TexasDuckHunter]

Hi, Im 16 and this year will be my tenth year hunting! I would love to help you pick out a rifle. First things first a lot of people getting into the sport always want to go big (not just new people, experts to). What i mean by that is some people that hunt deer think they need .300 win mag to do it (or they just want the biggest gun they can get). Trust me when I say that not only is getting the bigger calibers unnecessary, you will end up spending more on ammo, damaging the deer you shoot ( well duh but what i mean is you will ruin the meat by using massive calibers), and having to spend more on glass (scopes) because the recoil is more demanding. You mentioned .243 which is become well known for being hunters first guns. The round is fairly cheap it is a fast round and is capable of taking down deer, hogs, and coyotes without a problem. Something to take into consideration when your determining a first hunting rifle is what range are you going to be shooting from? (this is often over thought to. A lot of new people think they need a caliber capable of taken animals down at 500+ yards but the fact of the matter is new shooters do not need to be taking shots like that and while hunting most hunters are never given the option to take shots that far). A .243 is a good caliber but it is limited on range. Yes it is capable of taking shots at 400+ plus yards but at that distance an almost perfect shot is need to drop it. All that said I think a .243 is a great gun if you only plan on hunting deer. You could get a Savage 11 Trophy hunter that comes with a Nikon scope for 400-450. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

[Boomer58cal]

@ Texasduckhunter

Very well said for a 16 year old. I wish our wonderful country had more like you.

It's all about the kids people teach them right now and they'll be harder to indoctrinate later.

Boomer

[tahunua001]

very well spoken texas duck hunter.
one thing I would like to amend, however.
243 not being able to make kills on deer at 400 yards? although many shooters would not be able to make the shot, the bullet is still more than capable of taking a deer at that range. a standard 100gr federal powershok still maintains over 850 FTLBs of energy and is travelling over 2000 FPS at 400 yards. it is a very flat shooting round that retains a lot of energy for being as relatively small bore as it is.

compared to a 30-30 which is the most popular deer cartridge in the US where a 150gr federal powershok is only going just under 1200FPS and only has about 450FTLBs of energy left.

on the flip side of the coin, 308 is the most popular long range round in the world and holds greater energy than the 243 at 400 yards however given a 200 yard zero, the 308 drops about 26-27 inches and has a wind drift of 20+ inches(assuming 10 MPH cross wind) by 400 yards.

on the other hand 243 only has a wind drift of 16 inches and only drops around 22 inches. so considering the alternatives, the 243 not only gives a shooter a better chance of actually hitting it's target than the 308 but also has a better chance of dropping it than the 30-30.

all data is from the ATK ballistics boards.

[Metal god]

Although Brian is right about LOP and the rifle fitting the person . IMHO unless you are a small person and it is likely you will have a small frame/body as an adult . I would get a full sized rifle . A youth rifle will only fit you for 3 or 4 years of the 60 years or so you have left on this earth . you will have out grown it just as you really get to know it . If you were a lot younger I'd say yes get the smaller rifle . But there's a good chance you out grow the rifle in a year .

As for getting a 22 . I agree with the others , everybody should have one . My buddy has the marlin xt and it's a real good shooter . It keeps up with my Savage MK2 FV no problem . If I remember the marlin is well under $200 as well . I think it would be a good choice for your first rifle . It will be much cheaper to feed for a young man then any center fire rifle .

[PatientWolf]

TexasDuckHunter
For the record, my .243 Savage 110C has taken a deer in excess of 400 yds.

I think the biggest issue on a 400yd shot that it makes hitting the right spot more difficult, which would be true of other caliber a as well.

Was I good or lucky that day? Who knows, but the .243 was capable.

[Brian Pfleuger]

.243 not enough for deer at 400?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18

Hm.

[JasoninSD]

Bharrigan,

You had mentioned that maybe you should get a .22 first. I assumed earlier that you already had one. If not, yes get the .22. You could get a bolt action or semi auto for a minimal investment. Most should be capable of giving acceptable accuracy for whatever you may need. You can also put a quality scope on a .22 that you can later move to a deer rifle when you choose. Then you need to get your hands on as much .22 ammo as you can find (good luck) and start shooting. You can practice on paper targets or gophers or other targets of opportunity. Sending rounds down range and working on your trigger control will pay huge rewards in the future when you do move on to a big game rifle.

[jmfc606]

If you buy any youth big game rifle from savage there is a hangtag on the gun allowing you 50% off the purchase of a fullsize stock for that gun. The length of pull on a fullsize is 14" , the youth is either 13 or 13.5" which is better when wearing a winter coat anyway

[Duzell]

as you are 13
i dont know your weight or handle but as someone who has shot since i was 5 with my dad i can say recoil is a factor, not that you cant handle it, but it will be hard to compromise for accuracy

a 30_06 is a very strong caliber with LOTs of kick, when i was young i shot a M1 garand and it was always to much for me to handle.

now a 308 has same bullet, less powder which burns hotter, less distance but long range with less kick. i love my m14 due to this fact as i tackdrive with it at 300 and is one of my top guns.

anything lower than a 308 will reduce your range and increase drop rate. but trade off is the recoil reduction, my buddy rob dosnt shoot high rounds and likes 223 and is a very accurate marksman so its all in how you practice and apply yourself

i would recommend shooting a avriety of rounds and see how you like them.

side note:
now i personally have my mosin as a budget gun. little higher power than the 308 with a bigger bullet/less powder, but cheaper to buy ammo and gun

160$ for a mosin nagant 9130 at big 5, 8$ for ammo and very customizable.
i can get many stocks, mounts and attachments easy, as well as sport it out with scopes and such

and as a mosin is a curio and relic you can buy it off people on craigslist without an ffl dealer needed(if memory serves), and is a go to hunting rifle lately for many

but as i say up above go to a training range and get someone to let you shoot a variety of bullets and guns so you get a feel in what you want

[m&p45acp10+1]

There are many post here that I have skimmed though. A lot of very knowledgable folks have given good input on the hardware.


Here is what I would suggest.

First thing have dad set you up with a hunter's safety course. I am not sure of NY law. In this state (Tx. one is required by law to have compleeted a hunter safety course before hunting. You will also learn some things about rifles in the course as well.

Next find an Apple Seed shoot in your area. You and dad go together for it. Both of you participate.

Next find an instructor to work with. It cost a bit of money, and is worth every red cent. You will learn skills that you will use for the rest of your shooting life. It is best to learn properly, and develop the basics right off the bat. Elimintating many bad habits that many keep for life. (It will pay off on the first deer you drop.)

After all of that you should be a little more knowledgable on your ability, and can then make a choice on caliber, and size.

[tahunua001]

duzell,
though it may not have been your intention you are offering some contradictory or just poorly worded advice.

now a 308 has same bullet, less powder which burns hotter, less distance but long range with less kick. i love my m14 due to this fact as i tackdrive with it at 300 and is one of my top guns.

though 308 has the same DIAMETER bullet, most 308 does not have the same mass as 30-06. the average 30-06 bullet weight is 160-180grains where the average 308 is 145-165grains. both are 308 diameter but the 30-06 has higher velocity and more mass which computes to more energy in FTLBs. yes if you reload or shop around quite a bit you can get 308 as heavy as 200 grains but the majority are lighter than 30-06 and are that way for a reason.

anything lower than a 308 will reduce your range and increase drop rate. but trade off is the recoil reduction, my buddy rob dosnt shoot high rounds and likes 223 and is a very accurate marksman so its all in how you practice and apply yourself

another thing that either you haven't looked at ballistics tables or you meant to say any 30 caliber smaller than 308 will reduce range and increase bullet drop. 7.62x39 and 30-30 are two such cartridges. however if you look at 243 winchester which is a 308 casing necked down to a 6mm bullet, it has less bullet drop, less wind drift, higher velocity and slower loss of energy over range than 308 and even 30-06 while recoiling less. true it doesn't punch as large of a hole and the relatively light bullets mean it doesn't have as much FTLBs but it is very well suited to the purpose that the OP needs it for.

one last thing about the mosin nagant. you are very adept with machining and mechanics and even you have spent a great deal of time and money converting, upgrading, and otherwise modifying your mosin nagant to turn it into a decent sporting rifle. I would not recommend such an expensive and time consuming project for a 13 year old. perhaps as a high school shop project but not as a first time hunting rifle. a first time rifle should be decently accurate from the first round(excluding 7.62x54r surplus). a young shooter should be having to figure out whether an problem with accuracy is his/her fault or the gun's fault.