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Old June 19, 2022, 07:00 AM   #26
JohnKSa
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The presenter admitted that he could get much better groups using the single action mode and seemed clueless why he couldn’t do it in double action.
The longer and heavier the trigger pull, the harder it is to get good groups. This highlights the importance of training in DA since if a person needs "to get off a fast round for defense at a close distance" they will need to be able to get a good hit, not just fire the gun. I've seen people miss a human sized silhouette at 3 yards during drills, which makes it clear that even at close range, a person needs some level of skill to get good hits.

The acknowledgement that DA is useful when speed is of the essence is an important one. Think of all the times in a gunfight when speed is not of the essence... I guess that maybe there are some times where that could be true--and for those times, I suppose using the SA capability of a revolver makes sense.

One other positive aspect of DA shooting in a defensive situation is that there's never a need to decock the gun. While decocking a revolver is not terribly difficult it is important to get it right. It's not something I would really want to do right after I've just gone through a gunfight.

I shoot my DA revolvers in both DA and SA at the range because I shoot both for pleasure and to train, not just for one or the other. If I were spending my range time exclusively on self-defense training, I would focus on DA and shoot very little SA. Once a person gets to the point where they are accomplished at DA shooting, taking a shot or two SA if there's ever a need/opportunity for that kind of shooting would be very simple to do.
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Old June 19, 2022, 07:15 AM   #27
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I shot my double action revolvers single action almost all the time till I got my Performance Center S&W. The double action pull on it is so smooth and light (for a double action revolver) that I hardly ever cock the hammer on it.
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Old June 20, 2022, 07:57 PM   #28
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The best shooters can scream shooting double action and are just as accurate as single action. The other 99% are more accurate single, whether they admit it or not.
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Old June 21, 2022, 01:01 AM   #29
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Double Action

Anybody that has seen Jerry Miculek shoot will not condemn DA shooting.

A COCKED revolver must be decocked at the end of festivities, and there are those that will struggle with that procedure, I promise you.
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Old June 21, 2022, 08:36 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by bamaranger
Anybody that has seen Jerry Miculek shoot will not condemn DA shooting.
Go to a USPSA/IDPA match and watch any master-level wheelgunner to see some very impressive DA shooting that's far better than anything you're likely see at your local range.
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Old June 21, 2022, 03:49 PM   #31
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Go back a couple more generations and see what Ed McGivern could do with a DA revolver, or more accurately, a PAIR of them.

10 shots on a playing card at 20feet in 9/20 of a second, INCLUDING the draw.

Not being a cop and no longer a soldier, or anyone likely to go in harm's way, I tend to think of the DA as something like the emergency brake on my car. A fine thing to have for those very rare times when its actually needed, and not something that gets in my way when I don't need it.

Exceptional individuals can do exceptional things, the rest of us, not so much...
Personally, until I was about 30, I could barely hit the broad side of a barn from the inside shooting DA.

Then, one day, without practice, or intentional effort, that just changed, and I was able to ring my steel plates DA slow fire pretty regularly. Found I could even do tolerably well going faster. With my S&W M28, shooting .38s.

Shooting my Webley Mk VI DA? dang near impossible to hit anything beyond a few feet. The gun does matter, a lot. For me, anyway.

As to the risk of "decocking" the hammer after the fight is over? Sure, there is some. I forget who it was that said it, but its true enough, "you ALWAYS have enough time to put the safety ON".. and that would apply here, as well. When things are over, you don't need to rush.

Though personally, I can't see getting in that situation, having the hammer cocked and waiting to see if you needed to shoot, then finding you didn't...BUT I've never actually been in that kind of situation and so anything is possible...
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Old June 21, 2022, 07:49 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP
I tend to think of the DA as something like the emergency brake on my car. A fine thing to have for those very rare times when its actually needed, and not something that gets in my way when I don't need it.

Exceptional individuals can do exceptional things, the rest of us, not so much...

Lots of regular folks do some very excellent things, even with a DA trigger. It just took (and takes) will, focus, effective practice, and ditching negative narratives.

Last edited by MrBorland; June 21, 2022 at 08:01 PM.
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Old June 21, 2022, 11:25 PM   #33
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I tend to think of the DA as something like the emergency brake on my car. A fine thing to have for those very rare times when its actually needed, and not something that gets in my way when I don't need it.
That's more or less the opposite of how I think about it. SA for when time is not important, DA for when it is. Now list all the times in a gunfight when time's not important...
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Old June 22, 2022, 05:13 AM   #34
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Lots of regular folks do some very excellent things, even with a DA trigger. It just took (and takes) will, focus, effective practice, and ditching negative narratives.
Well put. I used to shoot 90+% SA for accuracy. Now it’s the opposite since I consider the main reason for even owning a pistol is self defense. Plus, as I’ve aged my ability to shoot SA accurately has declined. But my ability to shoot accurately in DA has actually improved from constant practice.
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Old June 22, 2022, 08:56 AM   #35
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When I shoot my DA revolvers, I like to shoot single action the most as I'm far more accurate that way.
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Old June 22, 2022, 12:46 PM   #36
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Now it’s the opposite since I consider the main reason for even owning a pistol is self defense.
This is the big gulf between the attitudes. Those focused on self defense above all else will usually also focus on shooting DA more than anything else. And, that's fine, for them. Got NO problem with that, for them.

I'm on the other side of that canyon. For me, the least important thing about my pistols is self defense.

Not trying to be negative in my narratives, don't think I've ever told anyone not to shoot DA if that's what they want, and never said practicing for that is a bad thing. It's just not MY thing.

IF DA shooting is your thing, then by all means, "Learn it, Love it, Live it". ITs the place you should be. I've done it, so I know I can do it, and I'm content with that, and with the place where I am. In MY handgunning world, defensive shooting IS on my list, its just not near the top. What works for me, doesn't work for everyone, and I don't demand you do what I do, expecting the same in return.
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Old June 22, 2022, 06:10 PM   #37
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People can shoot for whatever fantasy they prefer to imagine. I have shot a lot of big Wi. Deer and little tasty bunnies, and never felt limited by my single action revolvers. The next shot is just as fast as recoil allows me to really get back on sight.

If you need to hit it the first time, single action is the way to go.

For bullseye, semi-auto is the way to go.

Double action? It’s a great way to practice trigger control and is a whole new discipline to learn. Those lovely old Smiths are works of art and a man that has one at the range and shoots it well is making a statement.

Having lived 60 some years and never been close to a gunfight, having seen hundreds of black bear and simply backed away from them all, I’m okay saying that pistols are like golf for me. Exploding target golf that you can hunt with, and it’s a lot more fun.
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Old June 22, 2022, 07:37 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP
This is the big gulf between the attitudes. Those focused on self defense above all else will usually also focus on shooting DA more than anything else. And, that's fine, for them. Got NO problem with that, for them.

I'm on the other side of that canyon. For me, the least important thing about my pistols is self defense
Myself, I don't see it as a 2-sided gulf. I'm not into the defense angle, either. I simply wanted to be as complete revolver shooter as I could. So, although I spent a lot of time shooting groups, just shooting (DA or SA) cloverleafs at 25 yards is a skill looking for an application. Similarly, accuracy without speed (and vice versa), poor gun handling and reloads, and (most relevant to this thread) SA without DA, would all leave big holes in my wheelgunning repertoire.

I spent the majority of time shooting DA because 1) mastering it took more effort than SA, and 2) I found runNgun games with a revolver (shot DA) more fun and complete than bullseye shooting. I've enjoyed the journey.
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Old June 22, 2022, 11:21 PM   #39
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just shooting (DA or SA) cloverleafs at 25 yards is a skill looking for an application.
I hear that. My own particular fun thing was shooting offhand, one handed at rocks on the far side of the canyon. (180-200yds) or so.

As a result of decades of casual practice off my back porch I can ring the 200yd gong on the rifle range, regularly, and can do it with any handgun you give me. (totally unfamiliar guns /cartridges take a couple sighting shots, but once I'm on, I'm on.)

Some people who have seen me do this say its extraordinary. I think its something any one could learn to do, but oddly few seem to be able to. Conversely, the speed and accuracy of some folks I know shooting DA at close range boggles my mind. I can do it, but nowhere near as well or as fast as they do.

Taking a quick mental review, DA pistols (or DA/SA) make up about a quarter of my collection and DA revolvers only about half of that. I don't have (or want) any DAO pistols. Just not my thing.

Shoot the way you do best, I say, there's no "wrong" if you hit what you're aiming at.

Also, the thought occurred to me the other night, that discussion of DA vs. SA in specific situations would actually be "tactics" wouldn't it??
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Old June 24, 2022, 06:12 PM   #40
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Shooting Double Action

I grew up shooting double action revolvers. I've owned and shot a few single actions also. To me, there is a lot to shooting and mastering the double action pull. What I have found through trial and error is the key to shooting double action well, is a revolver with both a smooth and even pull.

If the trigger stacks in the beginning of the pull, the tendency is for the shot to be rushed, due to the immediate reduction of pressure after the stacking. It's almost impossible to control. If the trigger stacks to the end of the pull, the break is easier to control, but a heavy trigger is still a heavy trigger at the end of the pull.

Another feature which helps double action shooting is a trigger stop. You may not wish to consider this, if you have only the intention of practicing for self defense. Due to the weight in pull for a double action, any additional travel in the trigger will throw a round off to some degree.

If you are truly into double action shooting, you may wish to consider having someone competent and reputable work over the action. Check them out ahead of time, in order to insure they understand that you intend to shoot primarily double action.

I have a 625 Performance Center I'm about to send to someone. I'm just not sure whom to send it to at this time. I have an M-28 that I had Cylinder and Slide work on. They did a pretty good job, but the rebound spring is a little light. A solid weight rebound spring will help push your finger forward after the shot.
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Old Yesterday, 11:17 AM   #41
reynolds357
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Originally Posted by bamaranger View Post
Anybody that has seen Jerry Miculek shoot will not condemn DA shooting.

A COCKED revolver must be decocked at the end of festivities, and there are those that will struggle with that procedure, I promise you.
I saw the ground shot just about every time we qualified with revolvers. Usually by the same two officers. Chief was like Andy taking Barney's gun every time they did it. Butttt they never got fired.

J.M. is a freak of nature. What he could do in his prime is almost super human. I used to shoot with a guy who could shoot as fast as Jerry, he just couldn't come close to Jerry in draw or reloads.
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Old Today, 09:57 AM   #42
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I just like to take my time by shooting single action. Not in any rush at my age.
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