Webley Mk. I; Metford rifling?

RickB · April 22, 2020, 04:42 PM

The bore of my Webley appears smooth, as if it had been polished to the extent that the rifling was mostly removed, but after watching a TV show (Forgotten Weapons, highly recommended) that explained the difference between a Lee-Metford and a Lee-Enfield, I'm wondering if the Webley has Metford rifling?
Looks sort of like a modern polygonal bore.

Dufus · April 22, 2020, 11:23 PM

Sometimes the old guns can pickup so much lead that they can appear to be smooth. I have an old Marlin 1893 that was pretty cruded up and showed very faint rifling until I decided to scrub it.

I know that Unclenick has written about an old handgun that he had that was very leaded like your description.

RickB · April 23, 2020, 12:26 PM

Not just smooth, but mirror bright.

**44 AMP** · April 23, 2020, 06:45 PM

Not just smooth, but mirror bright.

A solid coating of lead can be.

And be aware that a barrel can be both "shot out" worn rifling AND coated with lead at the same time.

Try one of the commercial systems for removing lead, and see what, if any difference it makes.

Good luck!

**44 AMP** · April 25, 2020, 02:37 PM

Some further research indicates that your Webley (or all of them, actually) have "standard" rifling. It may be on the shallow side, but it isn't Metford rifling.

Metford rifling was, essentially an experiment, based on the belief that at the "high" velocity of the .303 round standard rifling would cut and tear bullet jackets. It is widely known, but wasn't widely used, and after a few years of the real world showing that regular rifling did not tear up .303 bullets, the British dropped Metford rifling.

As far as I can find, Metford rifling was never used in any of their handguns, only in some of their rifles, and was discontinued when it proved unnecessary.

Some sporting arms of the era also used Metford rifling (it does work) but the use of Metford rifling in sporting arms generally went away not long after the military dropped it.

Your Webley has standard rifling (though it may be worn) and from the description a heavy build up of lead in the bore.

Getting the lead out can take more than a bit of scrubbing. There are chemical compounds (including mercury) that will save you a lot of elbow work, but they are nasty, and very toxic so care must be taken, proper PPE used and disposal in accordance with your local laws.

Good Luck!

RickB · April 25, 2020, 03:51 PM

thanks,

RickB · April 30, 2020, 07:31 PM

For those eagerly awaiting an update . . . I ran a Lewis Lead Remover through the bore, three times, and not a trace of lead.
It must just be a really shiny, worn barrel.

**Mike Irwin** · May 5, 2020, 07:28 PM

To the best of my knowledge Metford rifling was never used in handguns.

What really killed Metford rifling was the switch from black powder to Cordite (yes, early .303 British rounds were loaded with black powder).

Cordite burned FAR hotter than black powder and in combination with the softer steels of the time Cordite quickly eroded the shallow rifling in the barrel ledes into uselessness.

April 22, 2020, 04:42 PM	#1
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Webley Mk. I; Metford rifling? The bore of my Webley appears smooth, as if it had been polished to the extent that the rifling was mostly removed, but after watching a TV show (Forgotten Weapons, highly recommended) that explained the difference between a Lee-Metford and a Lee-Enfield, I'm wondering if the Webley has Metford rifling? Looks sort of like a modern polygonal bore. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

April 23, 2020, 12:26 PM	#3
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Not just smooth, but mirror bright. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

April 23, 2020, 06:45 PM	#4
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	Not just smooth, but mirror bright. A solid coating of lead can be. And be aware that a barrel can be both "shot out" worn rifling AND coated with lead at the same time. Try one of the commercial systems for removing lead, and see what, if any difference it makes. Good luck! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 25, 2020, 02:37 PM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	Some further research indicates that your Webley (or all of them, actually) have "standard" rifling. It may be on the shallow side, but it isn't Metford rifling. Metford rifling was, essentially an experiment, based on the belief that at the "high" velocity of the .303 round standard rifling would cut and tear bullet jackets. It is widely known, but wasn't widely used, and after a few years of the real world showing that regular rifling did not tear up .303 bullets, the British dropped Metford rifling. As far as I can find, Metford rifling was never used in any of their handguns, only in some of their rifles, and was discontinued when it proved unnecessary. Some sporting arms of the era also used Metford rifling (it does work) but the use of Metford rifling in sporting arms generally went away not long after the military dropped it. Your Webley has standard rifling (though it may be worn) and from the description a heavy build up of lead in the bore. Getting the lead out can take more than a bit of scrubbing. There are chemical compounds (including mercury) that will save you a lot of elbow work, but they are nasty, and very toxic so care must be taken, proper PPE used and disposal in accordance with your local laws. Good Luck! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 25, 2020, 03:51 PM	#6
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	thanks, __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

April 22, 2020, 11:23 PM	#2
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	Sometimes the old guns can pickup so much lead that they can appear to be smooth. I have an old Marlin 1893 that was pretty cruded up and showed very faint rifling until I decided to scrub it. I know that Unclenick has written about an old handgun that he had that was very leaded like your description.

April 30, 2020, 07:31 PM	#7
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	For those eagerly awaiting an update . . . I ran a Lewis Lead Remover through the bore, three times, and not a trace of lead. It must just be a really shiny, worn barrel. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

May 5, 2020, 07:28 PM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	To the best of my knowledge Metford rifling was never used in handguns. What really killed Metford rifling was the switch from black powder to Cordite (yes, early .303 British rounds were loaded with black powder). Cordite burned FAR hotter than black powder and in combination with the softer steels of the time Cordite quickly eroded the shallow rifling in the barrel ledes into uselessness. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.