Keltec PM30, 22 WMR

CDR_Glock · March 15, 2017, 02:53 PM

I doubt it's anywhere near the effectiveness of a higher caliber but the pistol has me intrigued.

Any first hand users? How's the accuracy? I know they recommend CCI. How's reliability? Anyone using it as a concealed carry gun? 30 rounds of 22 WMR would not necessarily be a slouch. I know I'd hate to be hit with one.

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ttarp · March 15, 2017, 03:21 PM

I don't have a high round count through mine, maybe 200-300 rounds, but accuracy has been excellent, and I haven't had any reliability issues. Folks often complain about the mags being difficult to load, you just can't get in a rush cramming 30 rounds into a pistol magazine, take your time, follow the directions in the manual, and you should be fine. I carried mine once just for kicks, I prefer smaller guns for carry. Worth noting, these things are LOUD, it would be far from my first choice for SD simply because of the obnoxious report and muzzle flash.

This is an interesting link you might want to check out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmhmtJvLZQU

Bill DeShivs · March 16, 2017, 12:45 AM

I like mine. It's a little big for concealed carry.
They were designed for belt carry by hikers and backpackers.

Dane17 · March 16, 2017, 02:17 AM

It's a fun gun. Won't feed federal reliably but cci pretty good. This is even after sending it back to kel tec.

22 wmr is no joke but would consider this gun more fun than anything given its overall limited reliability.

PSP · March 16, 2017, 02:29 AM

Mine has been reliable and loads of fun.

Big Shrek · March 26, 2017, 08:48 PM

So far the local squirrels & rabbits have learned to
hate it with a passion

Same for a few armadillos...

Its definitely useful, and woe betide anything that
decided to get froggy with me while carrying it.

Back in the old days, the FBI conducted tests on the
Grendel P-30 as a backup pistol, it's small size and
30-rd capacity is great for laying down a lot of shots fast,
which would give a man time to get to cover or to a rifle.
While they loved the capacity, the Miami Shootout had just
occurred, so it and the 9mm were pretty much File 13'd.
Given the new rounds available for .22Magnum, I wonder if
they'd reconsider the Grendel if it were still in production?

Now the PMR is slightly longer, so it's less concealable,
but created by the same guy, George KellGren.
And having seen how a man gutshot with a .22lr reacts,
.22WMR could only be more effective.
Besides, 30 rounds of anything will put a hurting on
just about anything in North America

Shot placement would be key, and I'd suggest using
the Mozambique Drill for self-defense purposes...
two to the torso, followed by everything else
to the head until they were stopped.
It has VERY little recoil...which would be great for women
& small folks who wouldn't like a larger caliber.
And that also helps with follow-up shots.

Stuff to think about

TruthTellers · March 26, 2017, 10:42 PM

OP, I got a better choice for you.

Do you like 1911's? If you said yes and you want a powerful .22 caliber that doesn't have much recoil, then I got a deal for you. Armscor makes a 17 round convertible 9mm 1911 that also shoots the .22 TCM cartridge. Price will run you a bit under $700, but you're getting the .22 TCM's super high, 2000 fps velocity from a pistol barrel and a 9mm too.

Don't like the 1911? Hey, neither do I, I think they're overrated. Armscor agrees and they make a conversion kit for the Glock. Hey, you like Glock right? Why else would you put Glock in your username? Of course you love Glocks and the good news is you can still get those 17 rounds of .22 TCM and the kit will be half the price of the 1911 Armscor.

Now that the pitch is over (no I don't work for Armscor, just don't like the PMR30) I'll tell you why I don't like the PMR.

I don't trust an autoloader in .22 Magnum. That's a long case that has to be extracted from the chamber and is just asking for hiccups. Then the magazine itself is suspect because you're stacking 30 rounds of rimmed ammo into a magazine and if you don't load it correctly, it'll jam.

Then there's the Kel Tec brand and that alone causes at least 10 FTF's the first trip to the range.

Then there's the price of ammo and ammo reliability. Different .22 Magnum will preform differently in the PMR. The .22 TCM is only made by Armscor and it's a bottlenecked cartridge, meaning you'll have almost 100% chance of reliable feeding. Pricewise, the cost is basically the same if you buy online. 40 cents a round is about the going rate for both cartridges and with the .22 TCM, you're getting the same ammo every time.

With .22 Magnum, there's a high chance that a load you find to run well in the PMR30 will not be available due to the industry's focus on making .22 LR rimfire ammo instead of .22 Mag.

Also, .22 TCM is reloadable, if you're into that.

g.willikers · March 27, 2017, 10:29 AM

Quote:

I doubt it's anywhere near the effectiveness of a higher caliber

Even the lowly 22 long rifle, let alone the 22 magnum can be quite formidable.
They have the most important ingredient, being capable of rapid fire accuracy.
That makes up for a lot.
Of course, it's up to the shooter to be able to take advantage of those capabilities.

CWKahrFan · March 28, 2017, 03:40 PM

I've also found that taking the time to load the mag with care makes mine quite reliable. The main complaint I have about it as a carry gun is that it looks too much like a toy. I know there are those who say things like "Don't present your gun until it's time to fire!"... But I also read many reports where showing a gun in a real scenario has often ended a threat without a shot being fired... due to the intimidation factor. Well, the PMR-30 doesn't have much of that.

I find it really fun to shoot though and really like it a lot overall. Those sights are amazing in bright sunlight. The low-recoil factor adds a lot to the enjoyment.
BTW, I only load mine up to 25 rounds.

smee78 · March 28, 2017, 08:17 PM

I have one and it is a fun light gun to shoot. I have carried it a few times and don't feel under gunned with 30 rounds on tap. The only thing I don't like is I sometimes hit the mag release and pop the mag out when its being carried. This is the only problem I am having with it and it is holding me back from carrying it more.

Big Shrek · March 28, 2017, 10:08 PM

Smee, get a pack of these...they'll solve your accidental mag release.
https://www.tandemkross.com/Maverick...-30_p_236.html

smee78 · March 29, 2017, 08:28 AM

Big Shrek thanks for the link. Have you used these or know anyone who has? If they work I'm all for picking up a pack and giving them a try, I would be happy to stop the mag problem I've been having.

smee78 · April 9, 2017, 06:59 PM

Big Shrek thanks again for the link to the base pads, I went ahead and bought a pair and gave them a try. After carrying the gun around all weekend I had zero problems with hitting the mag release or the mag popping out of the mag well. They do add some length to the mags overall size but this has not proven to be a problem yet.

Walt Sherrill · April 9, 2017, 07:53 PM

I have a PMR-30, too. Great gun! (My wife wanted to shoot, but was put off by almost everything else we tried. Once she learned to rack the slide, she was fine -- and can even hit the target!! She particularly likes the almost non-existent recoil!)

I've seen some ammo tests using Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Critical Defense 22 WMR rounds -- both optimized for shorter barrels (rather than the rifle loads that are most readily available) -- and they perform quite similarly to .380 rounds in similar barrel lengths.

While I won't make my PMR-30 a carry gun, it is smaller and lighter than some of the guns I've carried, and it's 25-30 rounds could be pretty persuasive (and maybe effective) coming from a gun that shoots like a LASER!

The noise and ball of fire by themselves could deter some potential targets after the first round!

March 15, 2017, 02:53 PM	#1
CDR_Glock Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2010 Posts: 704	Keltec PM30, 22 WMR I doubt it's anywhere near the effectiveness of a higher caliber but the pistol has me intrigued. Any first hand users? How's the accuracy? I know they recommend CCI. How's reliability? Anyone using it as a concealed carry gun? 30 rounds of 22 WMR would not necessarily be a slouch. I know I'd hate to be hit with one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

March 16, 2017, 12:45 AM	#3
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,984	I like mine. It's a little big for concealed carry. They were designed for belt carry by hikers and backpackers. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

March 26, 2017, 08:48 PM	#6
Big Shrek Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: NorthWest Florida Posts: 1,358	So far the local squirrels & rabbits have learned to hate it with a passion Same for a few armadillos... Its definitely useful, and woe betide anything that decided to get froggy with me while carrying it. Back in the old days, the FBI conducted tests on the Grendel P-30 as a backup pistol, it's small size and 30-rd capacity is great for laying down a lot of shots fast, which would give a man time to get to cover or to a rifle. While they loved the capacity, the Miami Shootout had just occurred, so it and the 9mm were pretty much File 13'd. Given the new rounds available for .22Magnum, I wonder if they'd reconsider the Grendel if it were still in production? Now the PMR is slightly longer, so it's less concealable, but created by the same guy, George KellGren. And having seen how a man gutshot with a .22lr reacts, .22WMR could only be more effective. Besides, 30 rounds of anything will put a hurting on just about anything in North America Shot placement would be key, and I'd suggest using the Mozambique Drill for self-defense purposes... two to the torso, followed by everything else to the head until they were stopped. It has VERY little recoil...which would be great for women & small folks who wouldn't like a larger caliber. And that also helps with follow-up shots. Stuff to think about __________________ Marlin Specialist Calico Specialist A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.

March 26, 2017, 10:42 PM	#7
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,887	OP, I got a better choice for you. Do you like 1911's? If you said yes and you want a powerful .22 caliber that doesn't have much recoil, then I got a deal for you. Armscor makes a 17 round convertible 9mm 1911 that also shoots the .22 TCM cartridge. Price will run you a bit under $700, but you're getting the .22 TCM's super high, 2000 fps velocity from a pistol barrel and a 9mm too. Don't like the 1911? Hey, neither do I, I think they're overrated. Armscor agrees and they make a conversion kit for the Glock. Hey, you like Glock right? Why else would you put Glock in your username? Of course you love Glocks and the good news is you can still get those 17 rounds of .22 TCM and the kit will be half the price of the 1911 Armscor. Now that the pitch is over (no I don't work for Armscor, just don't like the PMR30) I'll tell you why I don't like the PMR. I don't trust an autoloader in .22 Magnum. That's a long case that has to be extracted from the chamber and is just asking for hiccups. Then the magazine itself is suspect because you're stacking 30 rounds of rimmed ammo into a magazine and if you don't load it correctly, it'll jam. Then there's the Kel Tec brand and that alone causes at least 10 FTF's the first trip to the range. Then there's the price of ammo and ammo reliability. Different .22 Magnum will preform differently in the PMR. The .22 TCM is only made by Armscor and it's a bottlenecked cartridge, meaning you'll have almost 100% chance of reliable feeding. Pricewise, the cost is basically the same if you buy online. 40 cents a round is about the going rate for both cartridges and with the .22 TCM, you're getting the same ammo every time. With .22 Magnum, there's a high chance that a load you find to run well in the PMR30 will not be available due to the industry's focus on making .22 LR rimfire ammo instead of .22 Mag. Also, .22 TCM is reloadable, if you're into that. Last edited by TruthTellers; March 26, 2017 at 10:48 PM.

March 28, 2017, 03:40 PM	#9
CWKahrFan Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2010 Posts: 2,016	I've also found that taking the time to load the mag with care makes mine quite reliable. The main complaint I have about it as a carry gun is that it looks too much like a toy. I know there are those who say things like "Don't present your gun until it's time to fire!"... But I also read many reports where showing a gun in a real scenario has often ended a threat without a shot being fired... due to the intimidation factor. Well, the PMR-30 doesn't have much of that. I find it really fun to shoot though and really like it a lot overall. Those sights are amazing in bright sunlight. The low-recoil factor adds a lot to the enjoyment. BTW, I only load mine up to 25 rounds. __________________ What did Mrs. Bullet say to Mr. Bullet? ... "We're having a BeeBee!"... IF THE SHOE FITS, WEAR IT!... IF THE GUN FITS, SHOOT IT! "Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it."

March 15, 2017, 03:21 PM	#2
ttarp Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2013 Posts: 888	I don't have a high round count through mine, maybe 200-300 rounds, but accuracy has been excellent, and I haven't had any reliability issues. Folks often complain about the mags being difficult to load, you just can't get in a rush cramming 30 rounds into a pistol magazine, take your time, follow the directions in the manual, and you should be fine. I carried mine once just for kicks, I prefer smaller guns for carry. Worth noting, these things are LOUD, it would be far from my first choice for SD simply because of the obnoxious report and muzzle flash. This is an interesting link you might want to check out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmhmtJvLZQU

March 16, 2017, 02:17 AM	#4
Dane17 Member Join Date: September 2, 2015 Posts: 30	It's a fun gun. Won't feed federal reliably but cci pretty good. This is even after sending it back to kel tec. 22 wmr is no joke but would consider this gun more fun than anything given its overall limited reliability.

March 16, 2017, 02:29 AM	#5
PSP Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2006 Location: Bowling Green Virginia Posts: 4,487	Mine has been reliable and loads of fun.

March 28, 2017, 08:17 PM	#10
smee78 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 2,918	I have one and it is a fun light gun to shoot. I have carried it a few times and don't feel under gunned with 30 rounds on tap. The only thing I don't like is I sometimes hit the mag release and pop the mag out when its being carried. This is the only problem I am having with it and it is holding me back from carrying it more. __________________ We know exactly where one cow with Mad-cow-disease is located, among the millions and millions of cows in America, but we haven't got a clue where thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists are

March 28, 2017, 10:08 PM	#11
Big Shrek Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: NorthWest Florida Posts: 1,358	Smee, get a pack of these...they'll solve your accidental mag release. https://www.tandemkross.com/Maverick...-30_p_236.html __________________ Marlin Specialist Calico Specialist A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.

March 29, 2017, 08:28 AM	#12
smee78 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 2,918	Big Shrek thanks for the link. Have you used these or know anyone who has? If they work I'm all for picking up a pack and giving them a try, I would be happy to stop the mag problem I've been having. __________________ We know exactly where one cow with Mad-cow-disease is located, among the millions and millions of cows in America, but we haven't got a clue where thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists are

April 9, 2017, 06:59 PM	#13
smee78 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 2,918	Big Shrek thanks again for the link to the base pads, I went ahead and bought a pair and gave them a try. After carrying the gun around all weekend I had zero problems with hitting the mag release or the mag popping out of the mag well. They do add some length to the mags overall size but this has not proven to be a problem yet. __________________ We know exactly where one cow with Mad-cow-disease is located, among the millions and millions of cows in America, but we haven't got a clue where thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists are

April 9, 2017, 07:53 PM	#14
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	I have a PMR-30, too. Great gun! (My wife wanted to shoot, but was put off by almost everything else we tried. Once she learned to rack the slide, she was fine -- and can even hit the target!! She particularly likes the almost non-existent recoil!) I've seen some ammo tests using Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Critical Defense 22 WMR rounds -- both optimized for shorter barrels (rather than the rifle loads that are most readily available) -- and they perform quite similarly to .380 rounds in similar barrel lengths. While I won't make my PMR-30 a carry gun, it is smaller and lighter than some of the guns I've carried, and it's 25-30 rounds could be pretty persuasive (and maybe effective) coming from a gun that shoots like a LASER! The noise and ball of fire by themselves could deter some potential targets after the first round!