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Old February 12, 2018, 09:38 AM   #26
Bob Wright
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I am still searching for the criteria that qualifies one as "Expert" in the field of firearms.

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Old February 12, 2018, 09:48 AM   #27
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Well, your revolver only has 5 rounds. That's some serious inefficiency. What if you are attacked by 6 thugs?
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Old February 12, 2018, 10:31 AM   #28
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No you are not. You may be under-skilled, but you are not under gunned. I'd say the same thing to him.

More ammo is not a bad thing ever, but it's not as good as most "modern experts" think.

More ammo is the best thing to deal with more bad-guys, but every bullet you fire is on you. You are responsible for it. So missing more is NOT a good thing, and the way most of the "modern experts" train is from a skewed idea of how real fights are.

Only hits count. And accuracy matters more in fighting then it does in hunting. Get rid of the mindset of shooting at the enemy and slow down enough to shoot the enemy. Shooting at and shooting are NOT the same.

Nothing stops incoming rounds better than shooting the man well who is shooting at you.

Quit shooting "at" them. Train that way! Train as if you were hunting deer. Shoot carefully.

Missing the enemy and hitting someone else is not going to help you at the time of the fight or any time after. It's certainly not going to help the innocent person.

Last edited by Wyosmith; February 12, 2018 at 10:49 AM.
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Old February 12, 2018, 11:54 AM   #29
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buck460XVR's post , now that's funny . Like standing at a urinal , I have to remember that one . There's nothing funny about carrying a 357. I carry a S&W Chief snub 5 shot 38 spl. at times , you have to hit what your aiming at . I wouldn't want to get hit with a 22 or even punched in the face . For someone to point an laugh would be alittle annoying .

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Old February 12, 2018, 11:56 AM   #30
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I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've heard that over the years. Normally I just look at them as if I'm looking at an idiot and don't say anything.
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Old February 12, 2018, 12:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
Just out of curiosity, why were you shooting offhand? Is that how you intend to shoot in a defensive situation?
I shoot everything I shoot offhand, at least some. Though it does become more of a chore with `14" barrel scoped Contenders...

Shooting offhand (unsupported) is, I feel the minimum skill level needed. when you need to shoot, a rest might not be possible. If you can't do it without a rest, you need to practice till you can.

Quote:
be careful saying you rang steel at 275 yards with a single action revolver. I stated I could hit a 13oz coffee can at 100 yards with a handgun and was all but called a liar here.
The world is full of people who think that, because they cannot do something, no one can. Frequently, the world proves them wrong.

In my younger days, I could routinely ring the 200rd gong with my favorite pistols, and could hit the gong (after ranging shots) with ANY handgun you gave me, OFFHAND!! And I usually shot my Ruger Blackhawk offhand, one handed. So, someone hitting a 275yd gong or plate is certainly possible.

I've got handguns capable of ventilating a coffee CUP at 100yds, and, from a rest I can do it with them. Could I hit a coffee cup at 100yds, with your service grade 9mm combat Tupperware? I doubt it. Nor would I expect to be able to do it with my dads match tuned .45ACP Government model that still shoots 2" groups at 25yds. I doubt you could. Those guns just are not built for that level of accuracy. But I can do it with some of my pistols, and with scoped Contenders from a rest its actually rather easy.



Quote:
Well, your revolver only has 5 rounds. That's some serious inefficiency. What if you are attacked by 6 thugs?
Order the 6th one to stand downwind of me, while we wait for the cops to come pick up 5 bodies...
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Old February 12, 2018, 01:06 PM   #32
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How you intend to shoot in a defensive situation may not be the way it happens.

A few years ago, I broke my dominant hand and shot with just my other hand. I competed and took classes like that.

Now I'm dealing with a serious shoulder injury on my support side. Coming to a two handed grip might give me a major pain spasm that would screw up whatever. Thus, I'm competing with just one hand and 9mm Glock (started out with a 22 Buckmark for practice). I shoot pretty well at IDPA distances with just one.

Also, in reality - you might have your hands full, have to grab a kid, use a light, use a phone, pick your nose. It's good to shoot one handed. Lots of gun fight pictures show that. Will I go for my preferred grip - I sure will but if I can't, I'd better be competent.
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Old February 12, 2018, 01:19 PM   #33
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Definition of expert; ex is a has been, spert is a small drip.
Cslinger almost had it right it is " Bless your pea picking heart."
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Old February 12, 2018, 01:57 PM   #34
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When I carried a .38 snub nose revolver my wife and I used to run the targets down range. I would fire my five shots she would fire a G17 magazine worth and pick her five shots to count for scoring.

It was generally competitive.

Point: all the capacity in the world is meaningless if the shots are not on target. And meaningless is a best case scenario assuming there are no bystanders
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Old February 12, 2018, 02:21 PM   #35
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The guy in the next lane pointed at my rig and laughed saying it’s 2018, they make better carry guns you know......


I may bust my friends chops about what they shoot, and jokingly so, but I'd never criticize any one else's choice of a carry piece. At the end of the day, it's all you.

Given your Expert's level of marksmanship, I'm guessing he subscribed to the 'spray and pray' method of marksmanship vs delivering accurate fire.
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Old February 12, 2018, 03:13 PM   #36
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You are undergunned if you are hunting deer, etc.
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Old February 12, 2018, 03:47 PM   #37
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I suspect the t-shirt and coffee mug sellers have all the clever come backs listed, here's a couple from their sites:

"I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong."
"When I want your opinion I'll beat it out of you."
"Yet despite the look on my face, you're still talking."

http://6dollarshirts.com/funny-tees
http://www.feelingoodtees.com/Funny-C24.aspx
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Old February 12, 2018, 04:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
Experts who give unsolicited advice are worth what you paid for it. I stopped doing that.

Case in point - I was taking my TX CHL test (easy for anyone with any practice). A guy next to me says that I shoot too well and should miss some of the center Zero zone shots. Why? Well, he tells me that if I go to trial they will ask me why I didn't shoot the bad person in the leg. He knew this as he was a trained sniper.

Given the OP is a well trained shooter - just laugh it off with us.
When the wife took her CHL test, she just made one ragged hole in the center. The instructor, just smiled and said "one large hole counts."
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Old February 12, 2018, 05:59 PM   #39
Glenn E. Meyer
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The TX CHL test - on the other hand, in one of my runs for renewal, there was a set of old folks (ME now). They were sharing a Colt 1908 Hammerless 380 from Grandpa. They loaded the magazines backwards. Oh, dear! Instructors have all kinds of scary stories. One of my friends said the guy next to him kept hitting his target.

As we have discussed in depth - lots of folks like to carry more ammo and a semi for the more extreme possible interactions. If you are comfortable with a revolver and shoot it well - that's your choice for the extremes but it certainly has lots of utility.

If I were not able to carry a semi, I would carry my SW 632 SS 3 inch barrel comp'ed revolver with 327 magnum loads and a couple of speed loaders. I wouldn't be helpless. I also practice with it.
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Old February 12, 2018, 06:23 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by noelf2 View Post
Well, your revolver only has 5 rounds. That's some serious inefficiency. What if you are attacked by 6 thugs?
Then the OP could just use his tank SP101 to pistol whip the snot out of that unfortunate 6th thug.

Last edited by Armybrat; February 12, 2018 at 06:30 PM.
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Old February 12, 2018, 07:53 PM   #41
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This is irresistible ....
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Old February 12, 2018, 08:03 PM   #42
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According to Urban Dictionary,

your "EXPERT" is a has-been drip under pressure.
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Old February 12, 2018, 09:45 PM   #43
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Frankenmauser be careful saying you rang steel at 275 yards with a single action revolver. I stated I could hit a 13oz coffee can at 100 yards with a handgun and was all but called a liar here.
Yep.
I've been there, as well.

But, in this case, I had as many as five witnesses to multiple back-to-back hits with that load and revolver; and there's video (somewhere) of me doing it with two 9mm handguns - not at the same time. (Along with two of my brothers doing the same with .45 Colt and another 9mm.)
By no means did every bullet hit the target - probably not even half of them. But it worked when I needed it to.

Honestly... I think more people would have a problem believing that I did it with a lever-action rifle than a revolver. According to the internet, lever-actions absolutely can not be accurate.
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Old February 12, 2018, 11:59 PM   #44
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rob-c:Wife and I were shooting our ruger lcr’s and had a guy telling us we were doing it all wrong, He said should be putting our thumbs up along side the gun for more control. I said thanks but we’re fine. I should have handed him my gun and said show me what you’re talking about.
As a RSO at a local gun range (which doesn't necessarily make me an expert) I see people shooting whose grip looks less than effective. However, if they are shooting safely, having fun and are hitting the target I leave them alone. If they have poor control and/or look like they are not having fun, then I ask them if I can show them something to improve their groups or to control their gun better. Usually the answer is "yes". What I demonstrate is the thumbs forward grip...keeping thumbs off the slide, of course.This mostly results in an immediate improvement in gun control, accuracy and fun.

If they want to hand me their gun and show them how it's done, I can do that. And quite well, too. Should someone say "thanks but we’re fine" then as long as they are safe, I will bother them no more.

My first priority is to assure a safe range. If I can also do something to make sure they enjoy their time more, then they will likely shoot more often and will see them again. It's good business to do that.
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Old February 13, 2018, 07:15 AM   #45
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" He knew this as he was a trained sniper."

You know, I think there are more "trained snipers" out in the wild that there have ever been people in the US military...
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Old February 13, 2018, 07:33 AM   #46
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There is one thing to consider, however. What if both persons are equally skilled? Just sayin'

I just gotta say...the members here sometimes come across as a bunch of stuck in the mud old fogies - MYSELF INCLUDED I MIGHT ADD. Sometimes it's weapon lights, lasers, 1911s, revolvers . . . you get it... The thing is - one has to keep an open mind.

Evolve or extinct. In some cases - evolve or die.
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Old February 13, 2018, 08:10 AM   #47
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I realize that modern autoloaders have a lot of advantages as carry guns, but it's not like revolvers suddenly became incapable of inflicting damage once Glocks started rolling off the line.
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Old February 13, 2018, 09:39 AM   #48
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I recently had a customer called me old fashioned for carrying a revolver. I watched him as he loaded his semi and had a failure to extract at round three. As he brought his gun down with puzzled look on his face and his buddy running over to help him clear the gun, I slipped in to the next lane and put 7 rounds downrange into a nice group in a very controlled manner and calmly walked away before the two got a rod to push out the spent case from his gun. His sheepish smile said it all.
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Old February 13, 2018, 10:05 AM   #49
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Quote:
He was shooting at 5 yards and was all over the target, not even something you could call a group. I was shooting at 20 yards with a Ruger Blackhawk and making 3-4 inch groups offhand.
You were shooting for "fun offhand". He may have been double-tapping, doing some other defensive rapid shooting drill. Therefore, the relative size of your groups compared to his is immaterial.
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Old February 13, 2018, 10:38 AM   #50
Don P
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Thinking back on this, the malfunctions I have had with my wheel guns are a broken firing pin on my competition 625 and my GP 100 locking up because the fool (me) short stroked the trigger Other than these issues my revolvers run all the time. My 649 and model 10 both have not had issues with regards to function and reliability. Both are wonderful carry guns
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