Dies do wear out!

dlb435 · April 8, 2009, 07:46 AM

I can hardly believe it, but I have worn out a die. I stuck a case in the resizing die and managed to get most of it out. I could then see were the brass patterned on the inside of the die causing the stuck case. (yes, I used lube) I knew this die was a bit old but was surprised by the failure. It's been a little hard to work with lately but I had no idea that it was going to fail.
Before the stuck case, the inside looked clean and smooth. After the failure I could see were the steel had worn and caused the case to stick. I guess that the hardening is only a few thousands of an inch thick.
This was an old die I had gotten from someone else, so I don't know how old it is. I know that dies can wear out, but this is the first one I have had.
BTW, I used ALL of the tricks known to get the case out with no luck.
I'm sure some of the big time reloaders out there can answer this:
How many rounds can you reload from a steel die before it goes?

madmo44mag · April 8, 2009, 07:52 AM

I don't know how many rounds it takes but a hell of a lot.
I can say it took me 12 years of reloading 9mm before I had to toss those dies.
They just would not re-size properly any more.
Over the years I have replace all my steel dies once for various reasons.
Replaced them with carbide dies and have never replace any since.
The 9mm was the only one I bought new when I started reloading back in the late 70's.
So they do last a long time but carbide dies are far better - IMO.

ems-1 · April 8, 2009, 08:12 AM

I know they wear out. It's only logical but it must take an extreme amount of rounds to do it.

I inherited dies from my father, some dated from early 60's, and he used to reload 1000's of rounds a week. I'm reloading 100's a week using the very same dies and they're still produce great rounds.

I guess it does depend on the quality of the material used to make the dies.

Dingoboyx · April 8, 2009, 08:24 AM

Since it was one you got from an unknown source, it might have done zillions of rounds.

I have lee carbide dies, and dont use case lube on mine. I do however, before using, put a wad on a pistol rod up the dies to make sure they are clean and leave a little oil on the inside, then do my reloads and when finished I clean and reoil the inside of the dies (to stop them rusting, til next use). I actually run all my finished rounds thru the FLSD again at the end (with the decapper pin removed) just so they will chamber correctly (especially in the revolvers)

When I used to use case lube, I found there was a tendency for the cases to want to stick, now I dont use lube, they never do (I reload .44-40 (slight bottleneck case) .44 rem mag, 9mm lugar &.32 s&w (all straight cases) I might be wrong, but I believe lube is only critical for large rifle full bottleneck cases.

Get some new carbide dies and give my method a go. It works for me, might work for you too

**Unclenick** · April 8, 2009, 09:08 AM

He didn't say it was a pistol die. Carbide rifle sizing dies can be had from Dillon, but they cost a lot and you still have to lube and can still get cases stuck in them.

How long a steel die lasts depends on how well you clean your cases before sizing them? If the case is still stuck and you have an Outer's Foul Out, try eating the brass out with that and its copper solution.

Dingoboyx · April 8, 2009, 10:18 AM

True UncleNick, would be nice to know what he is reloading

+1 on lube for the big bottleneck rifle cases, a must

JCS1 · April 8, 2009, 10:45 AM

I had a problem with stuck cases. That is a real pain. My problem turn out to be junk build up on the fl resizer. I had a friend that is a machinist and he took the die and used some really fine grit and polished the inside of the die. It works fine now. This was a RCBS 22-250 die that has 1965 stamped on the top. Not a carbide die.

wncchester · April 8, 2009, 11:42 AM

"Before the stuck case, the inside looked clean and smooth. After the failure I could see were the steel had worn and caused the case to stick......I used ALL of the tricks known to get the case out with no luck."

I'm puzzled. IF the case is still stuck in the die, how can you see where the steel has "worn and caused the case to stick"?

A conventional stuck case puller is the only "trick" I've ever used to extract stuck cases. And no case puller, correctly used, has ever failed to do the job. ??

Anyone with an electic drill can smooth and polish the chamber in a die in about 5 minutes.

DEDON45 · April 8, 2009, 11:45 AM

Just curious, what brand is it? If it's an old RCBS, Hornady (maybe Pacific, not sure if Hornady treats the old name with the same warranty), Dillon (dunno if it's that new), or Redding, I bet the mfg. would replace it for free or nothing more than shipping charges. My experiences with Hornady and RCBS have always resulted in me asking how much for a part that I (or a buddy) screwed up, and them always sending free replacement parts.. except for one time with an old .41 Mag RCBS Steel die that my buddy got a case stuck in (he put the case on top of the shellholder rather than in it... the decapper was stuck but good, not like the newer style where it's easily removed for drilling / tapping the stuck case)... that time they charged a whole $5.00 for shipping it back after they fixed it for free. And this was an old die, bought secondhand at a gun show.

dlb435 · April 8, 2009, 01:12 PM

The base broke off and I got half a case out. The rest is still in there.
This is an RCBS FL rifle die.
I've already ordered a new RCBS die to replace this one.
I see no point in asking RCBS to replace this die, it cost me nothing.
I got what I payed for.
I ruined one 1/4 bolt and broke one punch trying to get the case out. I tried four different methods of removing the case. Each one a little more distructive than the last. These included pulling, heating, beating and threading the brass. Sometimes stuck is really stuck.
I had been having trouble with this die for the last 1000 rounds. Kept it clean and kept the brass lubed. I think it's time for a new die.

snuffy · April 8, 2009, 01:35 PM

Dingoboyx

Quote:

I actually run all my finished rounds thru the FLSD again at the end (with the decapper pin removed) just so they will chamber correctly (especially in the revolvers)

HUH? Am I reading this correctly? You run completed rounds through a full length sizer? You do know that is sizing the outside of the case, AND the bullet to way undersize? The case, being brass, springs back some, the bullet, being copper and lead, doesn't spring back. Resulting in very loose neck tension.

If you're having problems with chambering, for heavens sake get a lee final crimp die. The FCD will iron out lumps and provide a taper crimp in auto rounds, a roll crimp in revlover rounds, and a factoy crimp in bottle neck rounds.

April 8, 2009, 07:46 AM	#1
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	Dies do wear out! I can hardly believe it, but I have worn out a die. I stuck a case in the resizing die and managed to get most of it out. I could then see were the brass patterned on the inside of the die causing the stuck case. (yes, I used lube) I knew this die was a bit old but was surprised by the failure. It's been a little hard to work with lately but I had no idea that it was going to fail. Before the stuck case, the inside looked clean and smooth. After the failure I could see were the steel had worn and caused the case to stick. I guess that the hardening is only a few thousands of an inch thick. This was an old die I had gotten from someone else, so I don't know how old it is. I know that dies can wear out, but this is the first one I have had. BTW, I used ALL of the tricks known to get the case out with no luck. I'm sure some of the big time reloaders out there can answer this: How many rounds can you reload from a steel die before it goes?

April 8, 2009, 07:52 AM	#2
madmo44mag Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Ft.Worth, Texas Posts: 1,522	I don't know how many rounds it takes but a hell of a lot. I can say it took me 12 years of reloading 9mm before I had to toss those dies. They just would not re-size properly any more. Over the years I have replace all my steel dies once for various reasons. Replaced them with carbide dies and have never replace any since. The 9mm was the only one I bought new when I started reloading back in the late 70's. So they do last a long time but carbide dies are far better - IMO. __________________ Texas - Not just a state but an attitude! For monthly shooting events in DFW visit http://www.meetup.com/TexasGunOwner-DFW

April 8, 2009, 08:24 AM	#4
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	wow, must have done some miles Since it was one you got from an unknown source, it might have done zillions of rounds. I have lee carbide dies, and dont use case lube on mine. I do however, before using, put a wad on a pistol rod up the dies to make sure they are clean and leave a little oil on the inside, then do my reloads and when finished I clean and reoil the inside of the dies (to stop them rusting, til next use). I actually run all my finished rounds thru the FLSD again at the end (with the decapper pin removed) just so they will chamber correctly (especially in the revolvers) When I used to use case lube, I found there was a tendency for the cases to want to stick, now I dont use lube, they never do (I reload .44-40 (slight bottleneck case) .44 rem mag, 9mm lugar &.32 s&w (all straight cases) I might be wrong, but I believe lube is only critical for large rifle full bottleneck cases. Get some new carbide dies and give my method a go. It works for me, might work for you too __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

April 8, 2009, 09:08 AM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	He didn't say it was a pistol die. Carbide rifle sizing dies can be had from Dillon, but they cost a lot and you still have to lube and can still get cases stuck in them. How long a steel die lasts depends on how well you clean your cases before sizing them? If the case is still stuck and you have an Outer's Foul Out, try eating the brass out with that and its copper solution. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 8, 2009, 10:18 AM	#6
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	True UncleNick, would be nice to know what he is reloading +1 on lube for the big bottleneck rifle cases, a must __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

April 8, 2009, 08:12 AM	#3
ems-1 Member Join Date: July 22, 2008 Location: S.C. Posts: 47	I know they wear out. It's only logical but it must take an extreme amount of rounds to do it. I inherited dies from my father, some dated from early 60's, and he used to reload 1000's of rounds a week. I'm reloading 100's a week using the very same dies and they're still produce great rounds. I guess it does depend on the quality of the material used to make the dies.

April 8, 2009, 10:45 AM	#7
JCS1 Member Join Date: February 20, 2009 Location: Bloomington, In. Posts: 37	I had a problem with stuck cases. That is a real pain. My problem turn out to be junk build up on the fl resizer. I had a friend that is a machinist and he took the die and used some really fine grit and polished the inside of the die. It works fine now. This was a RCBS 22-250 die that has 1965 stamped on the top. Not a carbide die. __________________ John NRA Endowment Member Reloading 40+ years *I miss my wife but my aim is getting better.*

April 8, 2009, 11:42 AM	#8
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"Before the stuck case, the inside looked clean and smooth. After the failure I could see were the steel had worn and caused the case to stick......I used ALL of the tricks known to get the case out with no luck." I'm puzzled. IF the case is still stuck in the die, how can you see where the steel has "worn and caused the case to stick"? A conventional stuck case puller is the only "trick" I've ever used to extract stuck cases. And no case puller, correctly used, has ever failed to do the job. ?? Anyone with an electic drill can smooth and polish the chamber in a die in about 5 minutes.

April 8, 2009, 11:45 AM	#9
DEDON45 Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2008 Posts: 278	Just curious, what brand is it? If it's an old RCBS, Hornady (maybe Pacific, not sure if Hornady treats the old name with the same warranty), Dillon (dunno if it's that new), or Redding, I bet the mfg. would replace it for free or nothing more than shipping charges. My experiences with Hornady and RCBS have always resulted in me asking how much for a part that I (or a buddy) screwed up, and them always sending free replacement parts.. except for one time with an old .41 Mag RCBS Steel die that my buddy got a case stuck in (he put the case on top of the shellholder rather than in it... the decapper was stuck but good, not like the newer style where it's easily removed for drilling / tapping the stuck case)... that time they charged a whole $5.00 for shipping it back after they fixed it for free. And this was an old die, bought secondhand at a gun show.

April 8, 2009, 01:12 PM	#10
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	The base broke off and I got half a case out. The rest is still in there. This is an RCBS FL rifle die. I've already ordered a new RCBS die to replace this one. I see no point in asking RCBS to replace this die, it cost me nothing. I got what I payed for. I ruined one 1/4 bolt and broke one punch trying to get the case out. I tried four different methods of removing the case. Each one a little more distructive than the last. These included pulling, heating, beating and threading the brass. Sometimes stuck is really stuck. I had been having trouble with this die for the last 1000 rounds. Kept it clean and kept the brass lubed. I think it's time for a new die.