XL 650 and 550C

[Stats Shooter]

Anyone have either of them? The Dillon xl 650 or 550?

I am in the market for a new progressive press to speed up production for .40 S&W, 556x45, and 7.62x51. Along with shooting F-CLASS, my local gun club has begun doing some XTC matches and steels for pistol every other week. There are Teams and I was asked to be on a team from work.

I use 3 different rock chuckers for my hunting and F-CLASS rifle but I have a job and two kids, and a 40 acre home /property to maintain. So I can't spend all my time in front of single stage presses. And I got rid of my RCBSpro chucker 5 because it kept breaking the priming arm among other things but the priming system was a disappointment. (i love most other RCBS products though)

So I'm thinking about a Dillon, maybe a LnL from Hornady but everything I hear about Dillon is that they are the gold standard for progressive presses. And after fighting an RCBS, I will spend what I need to spend to not have to fix my press all the time

[jmorris]

I have both of them. The 650 is better for production, the 550 is better to convert from one caliber to another.

[VonFatman]

agree 100% with mr. morris.
i can honestly produce 750 rnds an hour with my xl650 if i prepare (pre-fill primer tubes and have bullets and powder at hand). this rate is actually pretty easy after you have run a few.

i also think the auto indexing (xl 650) is safer.

both are awesome presses. i've owned both.

still own and use the xl 650...my first press.

bob

[Stats Shooter]

i can honestly produce 750 rnds an hour with my xl650 if i prepare (pre-fill primer tubes and have bullets and powder at hand). this rate is actually pretty easy after you have run a few

Can you ballpark a production rate on the 550?

[VonFatman]

i can not as i never used the 550 as a production unit, always short runs for some reason.

bob

[Stats Shooter]

Thanks Von,

I'm leaning 550C. The 650 looks great, but there are an awful lot of moving parts to take full advantage of it. The manual indexing isn't a big deal to me, and it is one less thing to break. 4 stations is plenty because I do not crimp anything except lever action rifles

[turtlehead]

I've done 300-400 per hour on the 550b. But mostly I do batches of 100 because I'm not in any hurry.

I really like it because it's a little of everything. Use it as a single stage, two stage, three stage or four. Back it up if you need to check something. Tool head changes take seconds. And (with my Redding dies) it makes fantastic quality ammo.

With the amount of shooting I do (once weekly) I don't think I'll ever outgrow it. And they're local so that's great.

[jmorris]

I can run 100 rounds on a decked out 650 in just under 4 min.

The same 100 rounds on an SD takes about 9:30 and I am a bit slower than that on the 550.

[Kevin Rohrer]

And another question that has been asked 100s of times.

I own a 550 and did own a 650. Got rid of the latter and kept the former due to the 650 being less forgiving of mistakes.

[sevt_chevelle]

I have the 650 and love it, never an issue with it. IMO the auto index is safer and one less thing to think about and worry about. I don't run super fast production rates, take it nice and easy and you don't have mistakes or you can at least catch them very easily.

[Nick_C_S]

Can you ballpark a production rate on the 550?

The 650, with its auto-indexing, is going to have a superior production rate compared to the 550. It also has a 5th station, which is often an advantage.

So it follows if production rate is among your highest priorities, then the 650 is the press for you.

I have a 550BL (I guess "BL" stands for basic loader). But I don't load progressively like most other people do. I split the brass reconditioning and actual loading into separate steps. To me, they are completely different things and I can not mentally, and thus, physically merge them. Point is, for this conversation, although I have a 550, I can not answer your quoted question as you need it answered.

If I loaded progressively in a conventional manner, I would have bought a 650 without question or hesitation. And I believe, so should you.

[deserted]

I've used a 550B for rifle and pistol and revolver for 20+ years and 20+ calibers. I like it a lot.

[amprecon]

I thought we were talking


and

[BigJimP]

Auto indexing and the 5th station for a powder check die...makes the 650, hands down, the better progressive press of the two.

a. 650 is faster
b. Auto Indexing removes a chance of "human error" ..by forgetting to rotate base.
c. Powder check is a significant additional safety factor as you are running high volumes.

I've had a 650 for probably 15 yrs...and for what its worth, I'd buy another 650 again... ----- and I will for our weekend/seasonal 2nd home.

[Stats Shooter]

All great points. I started this thread to get the pros and cons of each press. And that is what I'm getting.


Another question then, it may sound stupid, but can you run the 650 without the auto bullet feed and auto case feed.

Also, is the cartridge conversion easy? I want to have a setup for .308, 556, 40s&w, and probably 9mm

[JeepHammer]

650 doesn't need either bullet or case feed.
People still use the tubes for case feed without the collator without issue.

When I'm loading production pistol or .223 I use a bullet feeder.
When I'm loading hyper accuracy rounds, I install bullets manually because I'm picky about how the bullet starts/seats.

Check out YouTube if you are handy with hand tools, dozens of 5 gallon bucket collators builds on there, super easy to build and cheap too. (Maybe $30)

Bullet feeders for handguns are MUCH easier to build than the longer rifle bullets.
The version I settled on uses PVC (sch 40) drain pipe & pipe cap, and I use a speed controller on the motor, so it runs about $80 (minus feed die at the tool head).

The plastic runs about $15 retail at the big box stores, so if you screw it up, no huge loss and it beats a $500 Mr. Bullet Feeder up & down the block!

[jmorris]

The 650 comes from Dillon with case feed. That is, everything to take cases from a feed tube and insert them into the shell plate comes with the base machine, already setup and ready to go.

The optional "case feeder" they sell is just a collator, all it does is fill the tube. That said, filling the tube is where the speed comes from.

Dillon does not sell a bullet feeder but there are various aftermarket ones out there. Again, without a collator, you are not going to be gaining much speed.

Cartridge conversion on the 650 is more involved simply because there are more parts to change, this is because you must change all of the case feed parts in addition to the shell plate, tool head, that you would have to do on both the 550 and 650.

The priming systems on the two are also different. The 650 primer feed system is the best one out of all the Dillon's IMO but none are as fast and easy to convert from one size to the other as the 550.

[ed308]

The extra station and auto indexing is what sold me on the 650. I've never had a squib at the range. The Powder Check System flat out works. I had it catch a empty case a couple of weeks ago when I was reloading 45 ACP for the first time. I had small primer brass slip though and get stuck when I was trying to prime. I must have switched the case then indexed it without charging the case with powder. The Powder Check System caught it. But, without a doubt that would've been my first squib load.

[BigJimP]

The case feeder on the 650 is a really great addition to the press...but yes, you can run the press without it. The case feeder does not come with the press...its an option / but the 650 was designed with the idea that most users would install the case feeder.

Bullet feeder is a different animal...not made by Dillon / and personally I think its a waste of money and by many accounts, they are a little hit and miss in terms of reliability. The "Mr Bulletfeeder" that Dillon endorses, reportedly runs pretty well...but its about a $475 option...and then caliber conversions are another $ 150 or so for the bullet feeder. ( 9mm, .357 mag, 38 super would all use the same caliber conversion / but you would need a conversion kit for .45 acp as an example ...)...

Don't confuse caliber conversion kits on the press ( for the press toolhead ) /with conversion kits on the bullet feeder.../ and you may need additional feed discs on the case feeder as well...small pistol, large pistol case, small rifle, etc...

Personally, I would add the case feeder....and hold off on the bullet feeder.

That 5th station on the 650 toolhead ...has nothing to do with crimping, like someone mentioned, its about adding the "powder check die" in station 3...and still have the seating die in station 4 and the final crimp/sizing die in station 5. The 550 is a 4 station tool head...and while some folks will install a powder check die in statiion 3...and then combine bullet seating and final sizing in station 4...its not recommended by Dillon and others.

[Don P]

Can you ballpark a production rate on the 550?

With the primer tubes pre-filled I can load a comfortable 400 rounds per hour

Also, is the cartridge conversion easy? I want to have a setup for .308, 556, 40s&w, and probably 9mm

On the 550 disconnect the failsafe rod, pull 2 pins and the tool head is off

[jmorris]

If the rounds happen to share the same shell plate, caliber conversion on a 550 looks like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=689Wzn4qY3w

You have to back off a set screw and remove the shell plate bolt otherwise. Might have to swap locator pins too.

If you wanted to save some money you can use the same measure on all your tool heads and just swap preset powder bars, so you don't have to waste time adjusting them all the time. Like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdNZkkTFQEM


There is no progressive that is as fast to convert primer size on than the 550.

If you do it like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rCGV-JPYaE

[BigJimP]

Many of my buddies that reload, me included, think the time to convert a caliber is really irrelevent ....because we reload on progressive machines ( 650's, LNL, 550's, etc )...and we generally load 30 - 40 boxes at one time, box them and pull from inventory for weekly range trips.

Most of us reload 8 - 10 calibers....but when we convert calibers...we take the time to clean dies and toolheads, clean and lube the press, clean the casefeeder, empty and clean the powder measure and disassemble and clean the primer feed mechanism......and most of us have quick change kits for each caliber ( dies, powder measures and powder check dies installed in the specific caliber toolhead on the shelf )... so we clean as we break it down...and the next caliber up is clean and ready to go.

Breaking the press down, clean & lubing might take 30 min...but its really not a big deal because it isn't like you are liable to only run 4 boxes, break it down & run 4 of another caliber...you could do that change on a 650 in 10 minutes...but its not the way most of us run our hobby.

As an example my press was setup this am in 9mm...I loaded about 15 boxes in an hour or so after breakfast while i had some free time.....case gagued them...boxed em up.... / put 5 boxes in my range bag for practice today and put the other 10 in inventory for another day....right now my handgun ammo inventory looks like this:
60 boxes of 9mm ( I shoot 10 boxes a week )... so 6 wks inventory
40 boxes of .357 mag .. ( I shoot about 6 boxes a month -- 6 months inventory)
30 boxes .40 S&W ...I shoot about 10 per year
40 boxes of .45acp...I shoot about 40 boxes a yr
12 boxes of .44 mag....i shoot about 5 boxes a yr
20 boxes of .38 spl ( keep it for grandkids ...probably 10 bx a yr)
40 boxes of .380....( couple people in my family shoot 6 - 8 bx a yr...

I keep bullets for each caliber, powder, etc....but 90% of the time my press stays in 9mm mode...unless I need to replenish inventory....kids or grandkids visiting...son & daughter in law want to go to range, etc...

All my buddies are similar ....some of them shoot mostly .45acp.....or .40 S&W....so their inventories reflect their trends...

Wed...i'm meeting some buddies at range ...for some revolver drills...so I'll take 2 or 3 .357 mag revolvers out and probably 6 boxes of .357 mag... / when my inventory on .357 mag gets down to about 10 boxes, i'll setup press to run 30 or 40 boxes ....so i just need to make sure i have a few thousand bullets & a tub of cleaned and sorted brass ( and I do )....

In general, i break the 650 press down for cleaning & lube about every 3,000 rds regardless if i change calibers or not...

[jmorris]

Many of my buddies that reload, me included, think the time to convert a caliber is really irrelevent .

It's only irrelevant until you have to do it. I don't think it's a huge deal myself but I have a bunch of presses. 1050's setup with what I load most, 650's for what I load a lot of. SD's for moderate amounts of other pistol ammunition. 550 for stuff I load more of than I feel like doing on a turret fess but not as much that I feel like converting a 650. Then SS/turrets for relatively low volumes.

[Stats Shooter]

Ok, so I figured up what I plan to do.
So I will be loading for 2 rifle calibers, and two pistol calibers in some volume. I will be loading about 500 rounds per month .223 ( or the equivalent of say 2000 rounds in 3-4 months) 500 rounds/month .40s&w and 9mm. And about 250 rounds/month .308.

My hunting, and long range F-CLASS stuff I will do on my single stage presses.

So with that, it sounds like I could do that on a 550, but a 650 would allow me to crank out 3 months worth of ammo in a weekend. So I think I am going with the 650 with the shell dispenser. I will forego the bullet feeder unless I somehow later on believe I need it.

Thanks guys for all the input.

[disseminator]

I suggest you price out the two units with the setup you want and I think you will see the 650 isn't worth it unless you really need the output level, and then you might prefer a 1050.

I find the lack of auto-index to be a feature that give you added flexibility with the machine. Many people use a 550 as a semi-single stage and with the ability to move the shell-plate in either direction, you can do that. You can set up a tool head for brass prep and switch over to a totally different caliber in 5 minutes. It will be twice that on the 650 and cost twice as much or more to do it too.

The other day I made 1000 rounds of 9mm on my 550b in three hours. I wasn't in a hurry but once you get a rhythm going, the rounds come out quick.

IMO, the 5th station is not needed. You don't need a powder check, just look into the brass as you set a bullet on and you will notice if there is no powder.

That's my .02 but you really can't go wrong with either one.

And whichever one you get, I recommend the Inline Fab "skylight" kit: https://inlinefabrication.com/collec...the-dillon-550