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Old January 18, 2015, 04:52 PM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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Home Invasion With Machete on Video

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bsAMSQ13bY
News story on sentencing: http://www.localnews8.com/news/thoma...trial/30737472

Summary: A man hears a disturbance in his apartment hallway. He retrieves his handgun and a video camera. As the camera rolls, he opens the door to discover a neighbor threatening people with a machete. He yells he has contacted the police and closes, locks, and chains the door. The man then kicks in the door and is shot as the camera records.

I thought this might be useful for Tactics and Training because it shows a couple of points discussed here frequently:

1) The whole thing happens very fast. From opening the door to shots fired is less than 40 seconds.
2) Why you don't want a cheap front door - the man in question tears through the door like it was made of tissue paper.
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Old January 18, 2015, 05:23 PM   #2
chris in va
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I hated living in an apartment. When I was a teenager we almost had an invasion if my mom hadn't thrown herself at the flimsy door when someone the cops were hunting for tried to bust in.

We rent a house now and have a little more leeway with fortifying the entries. I miss owning a house but alas, can't get a loan despite being a vet.
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Old January 18, 2015, 05:37 PM   #3
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Wow... That's a very powerful piece of video. If you stop it just as he enters the door, the guy's intent is so clear as he cocks his arm ready to slash. The first shot had to happen right in that moment... and I wouldn't have stopped at one shot either. What a blessing that the video captured exactly what was needed and the soundtrack after the shots reveals so much about the total situation too.

Thanks for that link... Very instructive and fascinating!
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Old January 18, 2015, 06:42 PM   #4
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The lesson here seems to be:

Don't use a hollow core door at the main entrance.
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Old January 18, 2015, 06:48 PM   #5
CWKahrFan
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Quote:
Don't use a hollow core door at the main entrance.
Yeah, and before you rent, give a thought to security... and check things out with such possible scenarios in mind.
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Old January 18, 2015, 07:10 PM   #6
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Gun in the safe isn't real useful.
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Old January 18, 2015, 08:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Gun in the safe isn't real useful.
Good point. 8-9 seconds elapsed from the time the first kick landed on the door until the attacker was into the apartment.
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Old January 19, 2015, 03:35 AM   #8
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So, the attacker has mental issues to a degree, and will get 5 to 15 years, with basically a restraining order lasting 10 years, despite the lawyer's contention that he suffers from basically a mental condition that makes him unsafe to live with society.. But in 5 to 15, the attacker will be released back to society! great ! Did the lawyer have any evidence to back up the assertion ? I don't know. If it's true, the perp should never be released back into society.

I'd be suing the apartment owners to install i.e. replace the doors with suitable steel replacement doors. I'd also be looking at the walls and the remaining construction to ensure that there is some solidity in those as well. I'd ask nicely once, but if they didn't replace them, I'd either sue them, or I'd move. I'd also request the manager replace my spent ammo. If I moved, I'd sue the apartment manager for the cost of moving. The doors depicted are probably only suitable for use as pantry doors.
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Old January 19, 2015, 11:03 AM   #9
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So, the attacker has mental issues to a degree
That doesn't mean he doesn't understand right from wrong.
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Old January 19, 2015, 11:45 AM   #10
Glenn E. Meyer
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I disagree with having a gun. Schools are teaching you to defend yourself with a can of corn. Obviously, throwing a can of corn would save the day.

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Old January 19, 2015, 12:08 PM   #11
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I knew it would come to this -- 9mm vs 45 can of corn verses can of peas.

ugh
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Old January 19, 2015, 01:03 PM   #12
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I'm not an advocate of canned goods for defense but Crocodile Dundee felled a purse snatcher at 30 yards or so with veggies.
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Old January 19, 2015, 02:42 PM   #13
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This video made me sweat! So intense!

The attacker said "You tried to kill me!" after being shot, then the good home owner says "You tried to kill ME!" then the machete man said "yeah I was"



Well I'm just glad no innocents were hurt or killed.
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Old January 19, 2015, 05:06 PM   #14
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At least if you're going to use a can choose the largest caliber you can throw comfortably.

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Old January 19, 2015, 06:52 PM   #15
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Pork and beans!!!
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Old January 20, 2015, 11:42 AM   #16
doofus47
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1-DAB
Quote:
Pork and beans!!!
Um, no. The box of truth has shown that a can of pork will penetrate 2 layers of drywall and a can of pork and beans will go through 4, and a gallon jug of water....
Bad choice, mate!
lol

Seriously, if one ever needed to have visual proof that "when seconds count" adage, this would be it.
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Old January 20, 2015, 10:34 PM   #17
Willie Lowman
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I have one of those new polymer cans of corn. It holds 15% more corn and wont stick to my hand if it's been in the freezer.
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Old January 22, 2015, 09:18 PM   #18
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I haven't heard of schools teaching the use of canned food for primary self-defense in potentially lethal circumstances.

Has "political correctness" really reached this level of absurdity???

As a last ditch, out-of-options tactic absolutely! Along with the toaster and frying pan. As a primary self-defense method.......................I can't even wrap my mind around the concept.

The thought of having to protect myself from the assailant in the video is terrifying...... with a handgun I'm competent with and confident of. Doing it with canned food is unthinkable to me.

Somewhere Jeff Cooper is weeping.
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Old January 25, 2015, 01:53 AM   #19
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What puzzles me is the hollow core door. If this was an apartment with a hall way and the door was on the hallway, then I do not know any jurisdiction in the USA where a hollow core door could be used. The jurisdictions I know would require a rated solid door. I think it shows very well how fast an incident can develop, but I suspect this is for academic purposes only.
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Old January 25, 2015, 01:59 AM   #20
RodTheWrench
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C'mon guys, Mandarin oranges make more sense! High velocity, you can load many more cans in your arms, heck even tuna works better than a big, bulky can of corn! More shots = more hits!
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Old January 25, 2015, 02:07 AM   #21
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Quote:
I think it shows very well how fast an incident can develop, but I suspect this is for academic purposes only.
The second link provided in the OP indicates that this was a real incident.

http://www.localnews8.com/news/thoma...trial/30737472

The article refers to the video.
Cvengros had a camera rolling to document the commotion after seeing glass flying from the upstairs apartment onto the cars parked below. He said once he heard unusually concerning noises coming from the apartment upstairs, he started documenting the commotion using his digital camera, not realizing that camera would soon serve as a witness to what was about to take place in his apartment.

The video was played during Thursday's sentencing, and in it, Thomas kicks in the door, and both Gearhart and Cvengros yell at Thomas to leave, warning him he needs to get out. After Thomas was shot, Cvengros tells Thomas he already called the police, and Thomas confirmed he was trying to kill Cvengros.
Another video which links to the first and plays part of the video. It also includes an interview with the country prosecutor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UXe9seMabc

I believe there's sufficient evidence to establish the authenticity of the video.
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Old January 27, 2015, 06:54 AM   #22
thump_rrr
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Quote:
I'd be suing the apartment owners to install i.e. replace the doors with suitable steel replacement doors. I'd also be looking at the walls and the remaining construction to ensure that there is some solidity in those as well. I'd ask nicely once, but if they didn't replace them, I'd either sue them, or I'd move. I'd also request the manager replace my spent ammo. If I moved, I'd sue the apartment manager for the cost of moving. The doors depicted are probably only suitable for use as pantry doors.
The obligation of the landlord is to meet national and local building codes not whatever you "feel" is necessary.

If the apartment opens in a stairwell then the door would require a 90 minute fire rating.
If the door opens in a corridor then it would only require a 45 minute fire rating.
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Old January 27, 2015, 08:13 AM   #23
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Go back an watch the video. I can see clearly that the door only has two hinges even. Code has required solid core doors for a long time. The old hollow core doors had a lattice of wood inside them and would take some abuse the new ones like in the video....some are made of cardboard with a wood grain film. What ever state you live in building code and the Landlord Tennant Act would not allow that door.
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Old January 27, 2015, 05:26 PM   #24
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I'd ask nicely once, but if they didn't replace them, I'd either sue them, or I'd move.
In many places and under the right circumstances you can put the rent in escrow. Get the other tenants on board and they will put up a suitable door quick.

Quote:
The obligation of the landlord is to meet national and local building codes not whatever you "feel" is necessary.
True, however those doors are interior doors. I find it hard to believe they are to code for any rental property.

Should fall under this, just can't find the right code/law:
THE LANDLORD’S DUTY
TO KEEP THE
PROPERTY SAFE AND HEALTHY

Landlords must maintain the premises to protect a tenant’s
safety and health.
In that regard, landlords must comply
with city and county ordinances and state laws regarding
housing conditions.

IE (interior) doors that fail to provide reasonably sufficient safety barrier from fire or intrusion.
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Old February 2, 2015, 11:40 AM   #25
68Caliber
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I can't tell if the gun in the safe comment is real or tongue in cheek

Upon hearing anything suspicious I would have opened the safe and armed myself. There was plenty of time to do that. In fact, I could have had my quick access safe opened, be armed with a pistol, called the police and then readied my AR from another safe in the time elapsed between the indication of danger and the threat appearing.

IMHO, situational awareness and stress response are far more important than how the weapon is stored. Someone said 8-9 seconds, I say several minutes of prep time.

My question and perhaps it should be asked in the legal forum...should the person have defended his neighbors when he first stepped out and found the perp threatening others with deadly force?
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