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Old March 9, 2015, 03:33 PM   #1
Mitchum
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CCW Classes

I just finished the CCW class for Illinois this past weekend. Wow - my eyes were really opened. There are so many things to consider. It isn't a matter of knowing that you are approaching carrying a gun legally or "where" you can carry and where you can't. Our instructor tossed out many scenarios I had not anticipated and challenged me to think about what I would do. The class also made me realize how untrained I am in reacting to these potential situations - something I plan to correct.

Another issue mentioned in the class was liability insurance. Has anyone researched this? I'm talking about liability due to a civil lawsuit if you are involved in a self-defense shooting. I've been looking into options and have mentioned it to my insurance agent. I've read a bit from the U.S.C.C.A. website about how they offer incrementally up to $1.1 million depending on your membership.

Thoughts?
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Old March 9, 2015, 04:03 PM   #2
rickyrick
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I looked into insurance years ago, but never got any...

You can't train for every scenario that a civilian might face....

Try to think about how you would draw and shoot from the positions you are usually in at work and home.

There's some bad scenarios
1. The person knows you have a gun, because the bad guy is a family member or acquaintance and they've heard you mention it. Now they want to harm you..
2. You need your gun but it's not on you because you went somewhere it's not allowed. You complied with the rule, but now it's not on your person.

Now I either stay away from "No Guns" places or I don't comply... Depending on the place

Can't give any advice on Illinois tho
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Old March 9, 2015, 04:31 PM   #3
Mitchum
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You can't train for every scenario that a civilian might face....

Try to think about how you would draw and shoot from the positions you are usually in at work and home.
True - you can't train for every situation. As you mention I believe for me I'll train with the gun I use for carry, getting it out efficiently, obviously being as proficient as I can be shooting with it...............any situation like this will be high intensity, nerves on edge and I'm sure training will be invaluable.

Illinois is new to concealed carry so I'm sure there will be changes as time goes on. Unexpected situations can occur anyplace. The ones mentioned in our class were being robbed on the street, carjacking, burglary/theft from someone breaking into home, being in a convenience store when it is held up - situations I hadn't really thought much about but that I know do happen every day. We were asked what we would do in these situations? Some of them I knew but some I didn't so it challenged me to think in advance of my choices.
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Old March 10, 2015, 04:36 AM   #4
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A lot will depend on how comfortable you are handling a handgun. A person with little to no experience with handguns(or firearms in general), will require far more "training" than an individual who uses, handles, shoots firearms regularly.
Many years ago when I took the MO CCW class, I showed up with a friend who was an "off and on" police officer, target shooter, and hunter. Between the two of us, we had more trigger time than the "trainers" and the rest of the class combined. About the only thing I took away from the class was an hour's discussion by the county prosecuting attorney about the legalities of using the weapon. The rest was busy work and the range certification was a joke.
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Old March 10, 2015, 08:39 AM   #5
Mitchum
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About the only thing I took away from the class was an hour's discussion by the county prosecuting attorney about the legalities of using the weapon.
Our instructor was a recently retired state trooper, late 40's or early 50's. He was very knowledgeable and a great presenter. It's great that your class included perspective from a prosecuting attorney. Our instructor was the only presenter in our class but his experience gave him a good reference point. I hadn't thought in much detail about potential costs involved for liability in a law suit if involved in a shooting but I'm sure considering it now.

I'm not new to guns but am to pistols having only been shooting for the past 5 months - getting better but need still need lots of range time. I remember when shooting trap league years ago, or bird hunting, I felt I had a "locked in" mode when needing to shoot and the mechanics were automatic. My goal is to achieve that with a pistol. There's a difference, however, in being able to shoot well at a range when there's no pressure and you have time. The CCW class also made me aware, since I've had no training or practice, of how ill-equipped I would be if I had to draw my weapon when concealed carrying in a pressure situation. While I hope it never happens I certainly want to prepare as best I can. I think equally important is the knowledge and anticipation of events - thinking about how you would react in advance, and, some amount of self-defense training........if your burglarized or someone breaks in your house, if approached on the street and robbed at gun point, etc.
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Old March 10, 2015, 09:49 AM   #6
g.willikers
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Like any other endeavour, it all depends on how much you want to know.
There's lots of difference between knowing how to shoot and being able to survive a deadly encounter.
How much knowledge will satisfy you is a personal decision.
Most folks are content with far less training that is actually available.
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Last edited by g.willikers; March 10, 2015 at 09:55 AM.
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Old March 11, 2015, 11:49 AM   #7
coyotewsm
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The NRA offers insurance for members. You might want to check into that.
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Old March 11, 2015, 12:34 PM   #8
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Rickyrick. What if you work somewhere that you can't have your firearm?
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Old March 11, 2015, 01:04 PM   #9
Mitchum
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The NRA offers insurance for members. You might want to check into that.
Will do, coyote -- thanks for mentioning.

I have my insurance agent looking into it as well and will post what I find. I'm in Illinois so, as you might guess, with Illinois only recently adopting concealed carry this is a hot topic with our local insurance agents as several are looking into it.

Who knows? May find that either NRA or USCCA is better equipped to provide coverage than a personal carrier for auto/home/life.
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Old March 11, 2015, 01:38 PM   #10
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The only such organization that I recommend is the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network (ACLDN).

There's a truly excellent (and relatively nonbiased) article comparing the different types of insurance and post-shooting financial support on their website: Post Self Defense Support: The Buyer's Guide

It's worth a read because it provides a strong overview of the different types of support that are available, and the advantages of each type.

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Old March 11, 2015, 03:11 PM   #11
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Mitchum I used to live in Illinois. Do you still have to have a FIOD card?
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Old March 11, 2015, 03:45 PM   #12
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Mitchum I used to live in Illinois. Do you still have to have a FOID card?
Yep - you do. I don't give it much thought as I'm used to it but knowing we're the only state that requires this makes it seem a bit silly. Several support doing away with the card and there had been a bill proposed last year but no action taken that I know of.
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Old March 11, 2015, 03:48 PM   #13
Mitchum
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The only such organization that I recommend is the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network (ACLDN).

There's a truly excellent (and relatively nonbiased) article comparing the different types of insurance and post-shooting financial support on their website: Post Self Defense Support: The Buyer's Guide
Thanks for sharing this, pax ---- ultimately I believe the benefit of having some sort of liability insurance coverage in case of a lawsuit far outweighs what seems to be a fairly reasonable cost.
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Old March 11, 2015, 05:16 PM   #14
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Mitchum. It is silly. I remember one time I went with a buddy to gun shop to buy a shotgun. The making the sale saw me hand some cash to my buddy and he stopped the sale right then. Illinois is also one of the few states that doesn't have a rifle deer season. That's why I couldn't stand living there.
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Old March 11, 2015, 07:16 PM   #15
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To the OP: glad you took a lot away from your class. While as an ardent supporter of the 2nd Amendment that loathes tying this process to exercising one's rights....I confess I have learned a lot in the classes I have taken. Here in Arizona, state citizens no longer need a permit to carry concealed. But I will maintain mine regardless. An in-depth review of your state's use-of-force laws (which do change, by the legislature or the courts) is a good enough reason for anyone to seek out this instruction.

As far as liability insurance is concerned, I think it depends on the jurisdiction and the political climate. We have a long and glorious legacy of shooting people here in Arizona which is far more accepted socially than Illinois....Chicago not withstanding
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Old March 12, 2015, 08:18 AM   #16
Mitchum
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Mitchum. It is silly. I remember one time I went with a buddy to gun shop to buy a shotgun. The making the sale saw me hand some cash to my buddy and he stopped the sale right then. Illinois is also one of the few states that doesn't have a rifle deer season. That's why I couldn't stand living there
.

Correct! Illinois is still shotgun (or bow ) for deer season and I completely agree with you it makes very little sense that we can't use a rifle. We can coyote hunt with rifles?? Go figure And for firearm purchases its a 24 hour wait after the transaction before you can collect your long gun, or 72 hour wait before you can collect your handgun. This stands for purchase from a licensed dealer or private sale - and if private sale you are supposed to keep a record of who you sold to for 10 years. I see a reason to record the transaction but yes, to me, the whole process is s little over the top. You have to present your FOID card even when looking at a gun - if you want to handle it that is.

Quote:
We have a long and glorious legacy of shooting people here in Arizona which is far more accepted socially than Illinois....Chicago not withstanding.
I briefly lived in Arizona (sometimes wish I still did!). Cracked me up the first time I went to a gun shop that had a range - saw some guys carrying long guns that were heading to the range, no case mind you, walking across the street with them like it was nothing. Chalk that up as something you will never see in Illinois....well, unless you're being robbed .
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Old March 12, 2015, 08:37 AM   #17
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If you are not comfortable with and 100% sure of the function of your "carry pistol", you will be distracted from concentrating on your"target"(the bad guy) at the time you need to be most attentive to that individual(and any cohorts he may have). Fumbling with holster retention, grip, safeties, or just mis-handling the gun in general can and will get you hurt.
I don't attend "training" or take "self defense classes" but I am 110% comfortable handling my pistol and getting from the holster to "on target" in a smooth, no fuss fashion. I carry a pistol when and where ever it's legal and hardly notice it's there. I do however notice when it's NOT there and feel vulnerable w/o the tool on my belt.
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