Bringing a wildcat to life

[300magman]

Does anyone have experience bringing a wildcat off the drawing board and into existence. I'm about to start researching the real "how to" of this and before I spend 50 hours calling all over creation I thought I would ask here.

Basically I just need someone to make a reamer so that a barrel can be chambered and a set of custom dies so that I can size and load brass. I'm hoping this might not be too much of a task, but I don't really know where to start looking....or what the most economical way to accomplish this might be...economical being the key word.

If someone has done this themselves and can give me a brief "how to" that would be fantastic, otherwise I would still appreciate any information that could nudge me in the right direction and save me some time or expense.



And if anyone is interested, I'll post up full specs of the build if/when it comes together....failure or success. (but I'm very confident, if only I can get the action/barrel/reloading dies together that I'll have something cool, functional, and unique)

[jaguarxk120]

To bring a wildcat to life and shooting, all you need is money! Lots of it. Rebarreling, chamber work, custom dies, then the load development process.

There is so much out there why would you want a wildcat? And there are established wild cats that are easy to do such as the AI series.

[mapsjanhere]

Dies http://www.ch4d.com/
Reamers http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/

[taylorce1]

What is your wildcat? If you are using an existing case more than likely it has been done already. I'm not saying don't go forward with it but maybe there are dies and reamers available somewhere.

It cost a lot of money to build custom chamber reamers, but you can usually get a die reamed at the same time your barrel is chambered.

[okie2]

a whole lot of the choices in calibers you have now at one time was a wild cat. so why post negitive answers for him he ask for help not why he should not do it. and reamers can be made for $95.00 just the same price as any others. I will say go for it that is what makes the world go around.
we also have different brands of cars to drive only because some one had a different idea.

READ MY SIGNITURE !

[FrankenMauser]

I'm still considering a few of my own designs.

I gave up on the design that got me into this whole process, but learned a lot on the way. Forgive me, if I forget to list something.

Not counting the cost of the barrel, chambering, or any other work - For most things, it boils down to:
Chamber reamer - $100-300 (Depends on style, size, custom features, and quality. Such as 'reverse flutes', "anti-chatter", 2 flute/4 flute/5 flute/6 flute, etc..)
Finish reamer - $130-400 (Recommended as a separate item, but possible to be used for full ream.)
Dies - RCBS will run about $250-400 for a custom set (not including forming dies, if needed).
- Custom dies from a machinist/gunsmith will run about the same, but you'll need a reamer for the dies. (The sized case needs to be smaller than the chamber - so, a chamber reamer can't be used for the dies.)
- Die reamer - never priced one.
- Die hardening - Machinists don't like machining hardened steel. Dies don't work well, if not hardened. It's best to have soft blanks machined, then hardened.

After doing all the legwork myself, and comparing prices.... I found it was going to be considerably cheaper to send the rifle off to a reputable smith, and have them do everything - barrel fitting, reamer purchase, chamber ream, finish ream, die ream, die hardening, etc... (A few smiths have insanely high prices for dies. In those cases, RCBS would have gotten fired and unfired cases for dies.)

At the moment, I'm distracted. I'll try to revisit this thread when I can concentrate on the subject.

[Nomadicone]

I haven't done one since the early 80s but Clymer did my finishing reamer and RCBS did the dies. It's a fun project - enjoy!

[plainsman456]

Reamer prices have gone up a little,not 95.00 now.
The cost is somewhat higher than getting a factory rifle,but you get the joy and happiness that come from doing something that you have developed.
I have had rougher and finish reamers made to my specs at clymer and todd has been real helpful when doing it.If you have the dream live it.It will make your day.
That said, I have 2 more barrels on order for other projects,when they come in you can bet that I will be building some more .

[Jim243]

You failed to mention what caliber your are considering for your wildcat!!

Most are done in 6mm and most have been done.

Unless you are going to make your own bullets as well, you can buy most of what you are looking for off the shelf, it's been done before.

Contact a good gun maker and talk it over with a good maker as to what you want in a cartrage.

Jim

[GeauxTide]

Get PO Ackley's 2 Volume Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders. Most every conceivable conception has already been tried. RCBS had custom dies for my 338-06 and 6.5-06 in the 80's; however, they cost almost 3x the standard.

[Scorch]

Wildcats are neither expensive nor difficult. Design the cartridge (choose caliber, parent case, case length, body taper, neck length, shoulder angle, etc), send a drawing to Pacific Tool and Gauge, Clymer, or 4D for the reamer and a copy of the drawing to RCBS, Lyman, Redding for dies. When it all shows up, have the barrel chambered and start developing loads. Then get to loading ammo. Work up loads, and there you have your very own wildcat. You can register it and name it whatever you want. But, as mentioned above, many things have already been done and "your" wildcat may already exist. Have fun!

[300magman]

Thanks guys...sounds a little pricey, but not ridiculous. Who knows, maybe I'll invent something marketable.

Actually, I'd think it could become somewhat popular...if only there was an action and magazine out there that really worked well with it. At the moment I can't find anything that would really take advantage of the cartridge's design.

Does anyone know of an action that sports really wide bottom metal? Not big 50 cal action wide, but nearly full width on a varmint stock, that kind of wide. Maybe some old military rifle, or one of the less popular sporter rifle designs that has come and gone over the years?

[mapsjanhere]

Steyr 69 with it's fat rotary magazine is probably as wide as you're going to find. Problem is it's a short action, no idea how big you're planing to be. But any removable magazine action should give you that extra room you need.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

can be very complex, or very simple... my machinist buddy has made more one off cartridges, than I could even remember, but since more people do this than most people realize, there is lots of duplication... as was previously stated

I'm working my buddy to sell me his 9 X 39 SKS... he took a regular ( used to be $89.00 ) SKS, & replaced the stock barrel with a 9mm barrel, fit & regulated the gas block & magazine, after he made a chamber reamer... the base cartridge is the 7.62 X 39, however I'm sure he used another reloadable parent case, since "back then" reloadable brass X 39 cases were not avaliable, made & hardened his own dies... doing a gas operated semi auto added to the task greatly...

I've been getting a pretty big kick out of doing my "fast twist" Hornet... it is in essence a wildcat, as it uses a fast / normal heavy bullet twist .224 barrel, rather than the original slow twist .223" barrel, I've deepened the throats, so my longer heavier bullets don't take up so much case capacity, I've done up a Raging Hornet revolver with a Dan Wesson style fast twist change barrel, & I'm just completeing a new Ruger 77 22 Hornet all weather, with a stainless fast twist barrel... results with 55 - 68 grain bullets have been very promising in the revolver, & I'm looking forward to trying the rifle out this spring... benifits are low noise, very little powder use, bullet interchangability with my 223 rifles... it's been alot of fun, without the hastle ( for me ) of custom reamers & dies... but I still have to develope all my own load data... so, it's about like an original

BTW, as an owner of several current wildcats... if you can get by without fire forming brass, it's definately a good thing during times of increased loading costs, & component shortages

[80viking]

I have never done a wildcat project, but I have thought about it a little. One thing to consider when designing your cartridge, especially if you plan to market it is, will your new cartridge chamber and fire in another chambering that would cause a kaboom? Will an existing cartridge chamber and fire in your new wildcat cartridge that would cause a kaboom?

[FrankenMauser]

I have never done a wildcat project, but I have thought about it a little. One thing to consider when designing your cartridge, especially if you plan to market it is, will your new cartridge chamber and fire in another chambering that would cause a kaboom? Will an existing cartridge chamber and fire in your new wildcat cartridge that would cause a kaboom?

*** Edit - I missed the "market it" part, in regards to the reply below. My point still stands, though. Factory chamberings are just as prone to negligent ammo usage. ***

It's good to consider, but doesn't do much for ya.

I have some factory 8x57JS Mauser ammo that will chamber in my .270 Win and .30-06. I can also chamber .45 Auto and .243 Win in my 8x57, .270, and '06. Almost any 7.62x39 and .220 Swift will chamber in all of them. The smaller outside diameter .380 Auto chambers in my 9mm.

And... all of those (plus some not mentioned) will chamber in my shotguns.
Many of those combinations would result in injury, or catastrophic failure.
Some of the combinations might seem unlikely, but anything is possible.

Compromising the cartridge performance for a minor safety concern is a bit of a waste - especially when considering that a serious wildcatter is also a serious reloader. We are generally the safest and most observant of all shooters. I can also understand wanting to prevent a guest from stuffing the wrong ammo into a rifle. However - if they don't know how to understand the difference between chamber stamps, they shouldn't be holding my firearm. (And most likely, won't be - without strict guidance and supervision.)

[F. Guffey]

What are your guys thoughts/experience with this particular round?

My thoughts? Pistol, 38 Special. 357 Mag., 45 ACP, 9MM etc..

Pistols chambered in rifle chambers? 7mm57, 257 Roberts, etc.,

338.06 or 338/06 AI. then there is the thread that was locked, seems it was about 'What constituted a Wildcat', my thoughts, I purchased a new short chambered 338/06 barrel and thought about it for two years then decided I would make it complicated, I chambered the barrel to 338/06 first, I then made a bushing/guide for a 280 Remington reamer and reamed the 338/06 barrel to 280 Remington, the throat, neck and chamber length stayed the same, only the body of the chamber was changed, the shoulder was moved forward .051 thousands, the chamber is not a Gibbs, it is not an Ackley Improved, the taper of the case did not change, the length of the COL stayed the same. I have not made it to the range but do not anticipate difficulties, a friend offered me the use of a 280 Remington Ackley Improved reamer but without dies that for me was not a consideration.

Reloading dies, I found two sets of dies while I was at the Dallas Market Hall gun show for $20.00, one set of 280 Remington the other was a .338 Winchester mag., form the two sets I can make reloading dies by cutting the 280 FL die off at the shoulder and make a body die that will size the body and part of the shoulder only, I can then use the 338 Mag die to neck size the case and use the other die to seat bullets.

I have a cutoff saw and a butt grinder will make working the dies a matter of measuring first then cut.

The chamber will be a 338/280 with a 30/06 case length.

F. Guffey

[80viking]

"My point still stands, though. Factory chamberings are just as prone to negligent ammo usage. "

I agree 100%, but fact is idiot proofing new calibers is a huge consideration when a manufacturer legitimizes any new cartridge.

[F. Guffey]

http://www.realguns.com/archives/172.htm

http://www.z-hat.com/Hawk%20Forming.htm

The Ruger 375 and 416 are new, Hawks chambers are not that old, in the first link the 30/06, 375 H&H and 416 Rigby are listed the first two are close to being 100+ years old

I form 338/280 cases from 280 Remington cases. once fired $11.00 per 100, new about $40.00 per 100.

Price per 20 Ruger 416 $58.00, 416 Remington $125, 416 Rigby $217

F. Guffey

[OkieCruffler]

Sometimes dies can be quite easy depending on what you're looking for. Meet the 7m4 (7MM Micro Mag)



Parent case is the always popular 357 mag, dies are simply cut down 7tcu's. Project got sidelined for other things for a bit but I'm picking it back up.