FNG .223 reloading question

RoyalsSpeedShop · March 4, 2009, 09:49 PM

I happen to have come across a large quantity of small pistol primers and Winchester 231 for free. With the huge crunch on reloading components right now I am curious if I can use a reduced amount of 231 for loading .223 for my AR. I know it is a quick burning pistol powder but is it possible to use and or safe to use a reduced amount to achieve around 40,000 psi? I figure I can't use the Winchester small pistol primers for these loads, or can I? Some insight would be great. Thanks in advance

fourrobert13 · March 4, 2009, 10:40 PM

No.

If you can't find data for it, then I wouldn't try it. Check Hodgdon's website, but I think you are going to come up empty.

RoyalsSpeedShop · March 4, 2009, 10:51 PM

Yeah, I have already looked at the Hodgdon site. No dice.

Does it make since if say 5.5 gr of 231 creates 24,000 psi with a 9mm 90 grain bullet that one could figure out what a safe charge would be to get around
40,000 psi?

Inspector3711 · March 4, 2009, 10:52 PM

Don't load what isn't published. I suspect W231 is a bit fast for .223. If that's the case you may well be playing with a grenade. There was a guy on here last week using Blue Dot for powder in his Weatherby rifle. His post included pictures of all the pieces of his gun after to blew up. He suspects a double charge but isn't sure. He was slightly injured and got lucky. I tried to find his post but can't locate it now.

Inspector3711 · March 4, 2009, 11:02 PM

Found it!

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...=double+charge

Not trying to say you can't but this is what can happen if something goes wrong. It does make a guy think.

fourrobert13 · March 4, 2009, 11:07 PM

Do a search for threads posted by Uncle Don. He had a kaboom using pistol powder in a rifle. Although not sure it was intentional, but pistol powders are to fast. You would be better off loading up a bunch of 9mm with that 231, or send it to me and I'll put it to good use

.

PCJim · March 4, 2009, 11:33 PM

Maybe some aerospace engineers or post doctorate mathematicians could figure it out, but your suggestion that a certain weight/pressure for 9mm could be easily extrapolated to a pressure in .223 is not possible. The pressure results from primer blast, powder charge weight, available case volume and bullet weight/friction. There is a lot of difference in 9mm case volume versus .223 volume, not to mention bullet variances and the effect of different bullet weights.

As stated above, DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS you can find some published data. Even then, I would be extremely leary of it's use.

RoyalsSpeedShop · March 5, 2009, 12:43 AM

Pretty much what I figured. I was hoping someone knew of a proven load. Believe me, I do no want to tear up my AR or my body. Thanks

ForneyRider · March 6, 2009, 11:28 AM

Some people use pistol powder for lead bullet loads in bottle neck cartridges.

You can use a filler like Dacron or Cream of Wheat.

Not recommended for anyone regarding himself as FNG.

AA2230 is cheap, meters easy, and works great for 35-65gr bullets in .223.

March 4, 2009, 09:49 PM	#1
RoyalsSpeedShop Junior Member Join Date: February 22, 2009 Posts: 13	FNG .223 reloading question I happen to have come across a large quantity of small pistol primers and Winchester 231 for free. With the huge crunch on reloading components right now I am curious if I can use a reduced amount of 231 for loading .223 for my AR. I know it is a quick burning pistol powder but is it possible to use and or safe to use a reduced amount to achieve around 40,000 psi? I figure I can't use the Winchester small pistol primers for these loads, or can I? Some insight would be great. Thanks in advance

March 4, 2009, 10:40 PM	#2
fourrobert13 Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: South West Ohio Posts: 336	No. If you can't find data for it, then I wouldn't try it. Check Hodgdon's website, but I think you are going to come up empty. __________________ Be aware of yourself and everything around you.

March 4, 2009, 10:52 PM	#4
Inspector3711 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2008 Location: Puget Sound Washington Posts: 1,553	Don't load what isn't published. I suspect W231 is a bit fast for .223. If that's the case you may well be playing with a grenade. There was a guy on here last week using Blue Dot for powder in his Weatherby rifle. His post included pictures of all the pieces of his gun after to blew up. He suspects a double charge but isn't sure. He was slightly injured and got lucky. I tried to find his post but can't locate it now. __________________ "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." The Dalai Llama (5/15/01, The Seattle Times) "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." George Orwell Last edited by Inspector3711; March 4, 2009 at 11:00 PM.

March 4, 2009, 11:02 PM	#5
Inspector3711 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2008 Location: Puget Sound Washington Posts: 1,553	Found it! http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...=double+charge Not trying to say you can't but this is what can happen if something goes wrong. It does make a guy think. __________________ "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." The Dalai Llama (5/15/01, The Seattle Times) "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." George Orwell

March 4, 2009, 11:07 PM	#6
fourrobert13 Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: South West Ohio Posts: 336	Do a search for threads posted by Uncle Don. He had a kaboom using pistol powder in a rifle. Although not sure it was intentional, but pistol powders are to fast. You would be better off loading up a bunch of 9mm with that 231, or send it to me and I'll put it to good use. __________________ Be aware of yourself and everything around you.

March 4, 2009, 10:51 PM	#3
RoyalsSpeedShop Junior Member Join Date: February 22, 2009 Posts: 13	Yeah, I have already looked at the Hodgdon site. No dice. Does it make since if say 5.5 gr of 231 creates 24,000 psi with a 9mm 90 grain bullet that one could figure out what a safe charge would be to get around 40,000 psi?

March 4, 2009, 11:33 PM	#7
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	Maybe some aerospace engineers or post doctorate mathematicians could figure it out, but your suggestion that a certain weight/pressure for 9mm could be easily extrapolated to a pressure in .223 is not possible. The pressure results from primer blast, powder charge weight, available case volume and bullet weight/friction. There is a lot of difference in 9mm case volume versus .223 volume, not to mention bullet variances and the effect of different bullet weights. As stated above, DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS you can find some published data. Even then, I would be extremely leary of it's use.

March 5, 2009, 12:43 AM	#8
RoyalsSpeedShop Junior Member Join Date: February 22, 2009 Posts: 13	Pretty much what I figured. I was hoping someone knew of a proven load. Believe me, I do no want to tear up my AR or my body. Thanks

March 6, 2009, 11:28 AM	#9
ForneyRider Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2007 Location: Forney, TX Posts: 725	Some people use pistol powder for lead bullet loads in bottle neck cartridges. You can use a filler like Dacron or Cream of Wheat. Not recommended for anyone regarding himself as FNG. AA2230 is cheap, meters easy, and works great for 35-65gr bullets in .223. __________________ When all is said and done, there is a lot more said than done.