Shotgun Instruction

[TheKlawMan]

Oneounce. I think it helped for me to try to show my son how to hold the gun, even though his body type is different and he is a couple of inches taller. I also began drilling with the flash lite in the barrel and pointing along the top of the wall into the corner. (My wife hasn't seen me do it.
She will probably freak and call the guys in whit jackets to tqake me away when she catches me doing that.)

[Creek Henry]

If you cannot afford personal coaching, try video taping yourself shooting. Just seeing yourself from a different POV can help.

Also, coaching is worth it if you are ready for it. I gave my brother some pointers an how to stand and pivot better and this shooting got a lot better... until he dropped back into his old habits. So, in his case, it is better that he didn't pay for those leasons learned because he didn't keep them up.

[markj]

Klawman, here is a page with places in orange county

http://www.kuci.uci.edu/~dany/firearms/ocshooting.html

good luck with the shotgunning.

[TheKlawMan]

Thanks MarkJ. Actually that web page is our of date. The OC Sheriff range doesn't permit shotguns, which is no surprise since it is indoors. It is pretty safe that indoor ranges that alow shotguns are the exception and before going call, if thye say nothing about shotguns being allowed or not.

I believe Insight, which is actually in LA County, will permit some shotgun useage but with there ammunition.

Prado, is a few miles outside of OC, but it has a shotgun range permitting traps and skeet. That is the only one I have been to with my 870.

San Gabriel seems to have closed. I shot back there in 1960.

A shotgun club not much further from Orange County than Prado, which is not on the list, is Raahauges in Corona, LA County. As far as I know there is no place to shoot an SG in Orange County.

I think I will call the OC Sheriff and ask where the shoot there shot guns.

Thanks.

[markj]

Times have changed that much out there? I used to go to a place with my cousin, he lives in Huntington beach. One of his buds is an older gent shoots trap and skeet. Guess it has been awhile since I was last out there. We used to shoot once in awhile, then go for a motorcycle ride on ortega or the angeles crest. Always wanted to run mullholland but I never got to it.

[oneounceload]

TKM - Here's a list of gun clubs in CA.

http://www.claytargetsonline.com/list.php/ca

As with anything, call first to make sure they are still open

[TheKlawMan]

Yeah. The times they are achanging Bob Dillon. I don't think it is so much anti gun phiolosophy as it is the value of land. Whatever, the list oneounce provided looks up to date. Just returned from Prado and jammed up my shouleder some more, but after putting 75 rounds down and shooting a personal best for me. Shot a month old 870 Express exacly like mine, but without the 2 shot extension and with the 28" remchoke vent rib barrel. Weird, I thought it fit me better, but everything but the magazine extension, the barrel, and it did have the sport forearm, was identical. I have the LE forend and it may be that I have to reach further for it with my weak hand. Perhaps the forend made it easier for me to balance it and pull it properly into by shoulder. (The kid 26 year old that owned it had shot skeet for a while, and even though this was trap, shot pretty well with it and with my riot style). Like a lot of you guys have said, there is a lot to be learned from the guys at the range, including from trying their guns.

[merbenz]

i gave up reloading shot shells .i had a lee load all and was doing good untill i priced walmart 12 ga shot shells and gave up the trouble of reloading now some may say its fun and it is ,I just got tired of pressing shells and chaseing folks out of my ammo room with lighted cig /cigars .accidents happen so walmart was my way out ,now im selling my rossie shot gun side hammers 12 gage coach gun and going back to target shooting , hay we all have to ahve fun

[TheKlawMan]

I here you merbenz. I have been thinking about loading my own shells, but as long as my pump eats the cheap stuff from WM I don't see where it. Right now I seem to be working through the issues I have been experiencing with kick back as a nooby (just tried out my new Remington Supercell Recoil Pad), but if they continue to plague me I may have to shoot the more expensive low recoil stuff and then it may prove worth loading my own. (Was watching some reloading video on Youtube and I hadn't realized how little there was to it.)

You said something about having to chase smokers out of the room when reloaiding. I got a laugh out of one of the reloading videos in which the guy's reloading bendh was next to his HVAC.

[Dave McC]

Currently, I can run off a box of reloads for about $4. That's not much savings over the value packs, but I get better ammo. The stuff I reload almost exclusively is a 7/8 oz, 1200 FPS load that kicks you know what on clays but is easy on my arthritic self.

My 20 gauge reload is similar, just a little cheaper.

Last Saturday, I had some new shooters to instruct. One was a mature female of less than 5' tall and 100 lbs. She was fearful of the kick, having shot only her husband's 12s. I loaned her the little SKB 20 and two boxes of my reloads and watched her as she busted her first clays. Big grin, no pain. I thought I'd have to wrestle her to get my gun back.

After I left, her husband bought her a 12 gauge White Onyx with 28" barrels. And some 7/8 oz ultra lite loads.

Next time I take them out, I'm bringing a little NEF single with a 12" LOP and some 3/4 oz training loads for her two youngest kids to try.

And that's the big advantage of reloading. Tailoring the shot cloud to the mission and shooter.....

[TheKlawMan]

It looks as though I can handle the 1-1/8 ounce loads, with proper mounting and a better recoil pad, but if I am going to continue with this, especially if I start shooting more than 2 or 3 boxes a week, I have to look down the road and am wondering if at 63 I should be proactive and going with the light loads before chronic shoulder trouble. Am I wrong or does WalMart sometimes carry 1 ounce and 1200 FPS 12 gauge bulk packs. (I almost bought a couple of individual boxes there yesterday, but while they had a one ounce load, they were game loads and I think the FPS was 1290 .)

Also, it looks to me as though the best price on 7/8 oz loads is about $7.40 a box on line plus shipping which brings it to about $10 a box. What does it go for in the stores and where is the best place to look for it?

[BigJimP]

Shells are part of the equation - and sure I'd recommend you reload - like Dave and others advised, you can reload a premium shell, at today's component prices, for about $4 a box ( I'm currently at $3.75 for 1 oz loads in 12ga. ......... $ 3.04 for a 3/4 oz 28ga load ....etc ).

Today's progressive loaders - are very quick / many of them turning out 20 boxes an hour easily - like the MEC 9000HN / or even the Grabber model will give you at least 10 boxes an hour.

The best prices I've seen on lower velocity shells in 1oz - is about $5.50 a box / and I understand you have ammo issues in CA - but the cheapest prices up here around Seattle is to buy them by the case at your local gun club. My club, sells components and case lot shells to members only, and 7/8 oz of 1 oz Rio brand are about $ 55 for a flat of 10 boxes....

I don't think buying shells online is competitive. You'd be better off to partner with someone / go together on a press if you have to / each do your own loads ( so you don't have any liability to your buddy ) ....and load your own - and save a few bucks / or shoot more with the same amount of money.
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The pain issues you're having, in my opinion, are exaggerated by your ammo choice ....and me personally, at 6'5" and 290 lbs, I understand the "Buffalo" mentality - no challenge is too big / I'll try harder - or I'll just knock it down and wear out the opposition.... But shooting high velocity 1 1/8 oz loads in a 12 ga - will wear you down ! It doesn't make any difference how strong or macho you are ... Recoil is cumulative ...it wears you out ....and it hurts your mental game. The mental part of these games are at least as important as the physical part / and if your head isn't in the game ( ouch, my shoulder hurts when gun goes off ...) you will not shoot your best scores. Its a combination of skills and confidence ...that wins in these games / not the guy with the biggest gage / and the most shot in the pattern. Some of the best Skeet shooters in the world / shoot 20ga guns ( with 7/8 oz of shot ) in 12ga events !! They make their living shooting ....and if they thought they could get a 00.0001 % chance of an edge by shooting a 1oz load or a 1 1/8 oz load in a 12ga ...every one of them would make the change ....but they don't ??? They stay with the 20ga ...and win, and win and win ....

But most of the pain issues you're having, in my opinion, are "gun fit" related - and/or fundamental mount issues.

While you're healing - you really need to consider going to a semi-auto / where the action will absorb some of the recoil ....borrow, rent, buy ...whatever .... and it should probably be a gas gun. At the same time - work on fundamentals, Gun Fit, etc ....and let that shoulder heal.

Part of my issue - is the weight of the gun as I've gotten older / and a full shoulder and bicep rebuild on my shooting shoulder. So on days when I'm sore or not feeling as strong - I shoot a 20ga or a 28ga / and a lighter gun around 7 1/2 lbs ---and light loads. Some days I go to my semi-auto / mine happens to be a Benelli super sport ...but whatever you have in a semi auto ...

Somehow we need to convince you, while you can shoot these 1 1/8oz howitzer loads ....it really isn't in your best interst. We all understand, when you miss, its hard not to instinctively reach for a shell with more pellets in it ...( but trust me, it isn't better ... !! ) ....and its abusing your body !! 7/8 oz of shot will break any Skeet or 16 yard Trap target ...in a cloud of dust --- if you center it in the pattern !! The heavier loads / and the lack of fit on your gun ...and the abuse to your body --- are making it worse ..not better. You can stand there ....to use my analogy ....like a "Buffalo" ....( and I often do as well ) ....but when I close my eyes, I know I'm just being stupid ....

[TheKlawMan]

BigJim. I am already convinced of the need to get away from the heavier loads and primarily bought the 1-1/8 because that is what I had been primarily shooting and I wanted to test the effectiveness of the new recoil pad against the same stuff. It still kicked like a mule, but not a big a mule. Still, I know from work about the cumulative effects of repetitive trauma which is why I still am interested in shooting less than what I feel I can handle. Meanwhile, I am at least beginning to make more hits than misses with my short barrel (started to get the hang of pointing instead of aiming.) Ideally, I want to get a used long barrel for the 870 and then if I continue to like this game the 870 will pretty much be relegated to HD and I will pick up a semi so as to further reduce repetitive trauma. Also, I may be able to get my wife and daughter to come out once in a while and shoot the semi, while I use the 870. Of course if the boss starts to like this, reloading will easily pay for itself and much of the cost of a second weapon.

[BigJimP]

You're getting it .... good job ...

[oneounceload]

Also, it looks to me as though the best price on 7/8 oz loads is about $7.40 a box on line plus shipping which brings it to about $10 a box. What does it go for in the stores and where is the best place to look for it

Check out Graf & Sons, Gamaliel, Natchez, Kemen, your local gun club, etc.

I get Kemen for $55.00/flat OTD, while some folks I know like Fiocchi and pay less than your $7.40 per box when they buy in bulk

This would be a good one to look into or try:

KMLT24 NEW FOR 2010
Kemen Light 24 12 2 ¾ 7/8 2 ½ 1200 7.5, 8

That's a 12 gauge 7/8oz load @ 1200fps