S&W Mod. 10 + Cogswell & Harrison

Infidel · February 13, 2005, 03:42 PM

I have come across an S&W Model 10 (I think), .38, 4" barrel, looks just like any other well-worn classic service revolver (Model 10), but on the left side of the frame it is stamped "Converted by Cogswell & Harrison". There is a rectangular lanyard ring attached to the bottom of the grip, and the barrel has what appears to be a proof stamp and "3.5 tons". The serial number on the bottom of the grip frame and on the cylinder's rear face, is 741xxx.

What is this? What is the thing with Cogswell & Harrison, whom I connect with high-end double rifles and the like, not service pistols?

Thank you.

BillCA · February 14, 2005, 12:09 AM

Based on your description & serial number, I'd make this out to be a .38/200 British Service Revolver which is also known as the K-200 (S&W Pistol #2). This gun was originally manufactured for the .38 S&W cartridge, not the .38 Special.

Look carefully at the barrel to see if it is marked as ".38 S&W CTG" or if it's marked ".38 S&W Special CTG" (emphasis added). Most likely yours is marked for the .38 S&W and the cylinder was bored out by Cogswell & Harrison so that a longer .38 special cartridge would fit.

Cautions:
1. If .38 Specials will chamber in the gun, use caution. Some of these conversions were poorly done (bored all the way through), but in any event the .38 S&W case is a larger diameter than the .38 Special. This can cause the .38 Special case to bulge and possibly crack. Use only standard pressure loads in these guns.

2. Your gun most likely does not have the sliding hammer block safety. If dropped with a round under the hammer it could possibly discharge! Changes occurred in 1944 to add the sliding hammer block safety in Victory models ("SV" s/n prefix).

Supica lists one of these in the condition you described as betwen $120 to $200 (good to V.Good).

Some of the conversions were also performed by "Parker Hale" in England.

For what it's worth, my father bought one of these w/ a 5' barrel as a surplus gun via mail-order catalog in 1948 for $35(!). It was bored out to .38 Special too. Cases fired in it bulge but do not crack very often. As a home defense revolver it was fine but it's accuracy is no great shakes (due to the larger bullet diameter of the .38 S&W vs. .38 Special). It's still "in service" as my 81 year old mother's home(land) defense revolver.

Infidel · February 14, 2005, 08:02 PM

Thank you. That all fits exactly.

There is a 'V' after the serial number. The right side of the barrel is marked ".38 S&W". The markings are hard to see,-- the gun has a lot of use wear.

This revolver belongs to a friend who bought it used about 25-30 years ago for $25. He has put quite a bit of .38 Special ammo through it without a problem and now keeps it as a home defense gun (and loads 5, old habit). I was just intrigued by the Cogswell and Harrison stamp, but now it makes sense.

Thank you.

Johnny Guest · February 15, 2005, 01:31 AM

I bought one of these conversions from Montgomery Ward's in Fort Worth around 1963 or so. This one was marked as you describe. The barrel had been cut to about 3.5 inches and a decent-looking ramp front sight installed. Factory smooth wood stocks had been replaced with checked wood. Mine shot fairly well with standard velocity 158 gr lead round nose ammo, and better still with factory wadcutter target loads. I imagine this had to do with the hollow base bullets slugging out to fit the bore well.

I reloaded for mine, but typically only got one reload, sometimes two, before the over-expanded brass split. I'm told these shot well with the .38 S&W ammunition, though I never tried this.

Best,
Johnny

BillCA · February 15, 2005, 10:48 AM

Johnny,

How funny... my father bought his .38 while stationed in Tucson Az still flying for the then-new USAF in the post-war years. Then he was reassigned to Carswell, Ft. Worth in 1949 and exited the service there to work for Convair. The old .38 did home protection duty there and when we moved to California in '61.

These guns are decent home defense guns especially for the budget-minded. Since many of these conversions have little collector's interest many have been modified or reblued. One gun I saw was used as a project gun and the owner had it blued in the late 60's... by COLT! Interesting to see an S&W M&P with a high lustre polish and Colt bluing!

FPrice · February 21, 2005, 06:08 PM

Quote:

There is a 'V' after the serial number.

Is the "V" before or after the serial number?

BillCA · February 21, 2005, 11:00 PM

The "V" should be before the serial number.

If so, that would make it a "Victory" model M&P. Not particularly rare but a good shootin' iron. I'd suggest not shooting +P loads, but other than that, enjoy it!

My 81 year old mother still has Dad's Victory model M&P, loaded with 5 rounds of .38 Special 146gr LSWC-HPs at about 900 fps. Just enough to get the job done.

February 13, 2005, 03:42 PM	#1
Infidel Member Join Date: October 30, 2001 Location: CO Posts: 19	S&W Mod. 10 + Cogswell & Harrison I have come across an S&W Model 10 (I think), .38, 4" barrel, looks just like any other well-worn classic service revolver (Model 10), but on the left side of the frame it is stamped "Converted by Cogswell & Harrison". There is a rectangular lanyard ring attached to the bottom of the grip, and the barrel has what appears to be a proof stamp and "3.5 tons". The serial number on the bottom of the grip frame and on the cylinder's rear face, is 741xxx. What is this? What is the thing with Cogswell & Harrison, whom I connect with high-end double rifles and the like, not service pistols? Thank you.

February 15, 2005, 01:31 AM	#4
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	You have most of the information you need - - I bought one of these conversions from Montgomery Ward's in Fort Worth around 1963 or so. This one was marked as you describe. The barrel had been cut to about 3.5 inches and a decent-looking ramp front sight installed. Factory smooth wood stocks had been replaced with checked wood. Mine shot fairly well with standard velocity 158 gr lead round nose ammo, and better still with factory wadcutter target loads. I imagine this had to do with the hollow base bullets slugging out to fit the bore well. I reloaded for mine, but typically only got one reload, sometimes two, before the over-expanded brass split. I'm told these shot well with the .38 S&W ammunition, though I never tried this. Best, Johnny

February 15, 2005, 10:48 AM	#5
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Johnny, How funny... my father bought his .38 while stationed in Tucson Az still flying for the then-new USAF in the post-war years. Then he was reassigned to Carswell, Ft. Worth in 1949 and exited the service there to work for Convair. The old .38 did home protection duty there and when we moved to California in '61. These guns are decent home defense guns especially for the budget-minded. Since many of these conversions have little collector's interest many have been modified or reblued. One gun I saw was used as a project gun and the owner had it blued in the late 60's... by COLT! Interesting to see an S&W M&P with a high lustre polish and Colt bluing! __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

February 21, 2005, 11:00 PM	#7
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	The "V" should be before the serial number. If so, that would make it a "Victory" model M&P. Not particularly rare but a good shootin' iron. I'd suggest not shooting +P loads, but other than that, enjoy it! My 81 year old mother still has Dad's Victory model M&P, loaded with 5 rounds of .38 Special 146gr LSWC-HPs at about 900 fps. Just enough to get the job done. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

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February 14, 2005, 12:09 AM	#2
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Based on your description & serial number, I'd make this out to be a .38/200 British Service Revolver which is also known as the K-200 (S&W Pistol #2). This gun was originally manufactured for the .38 S&W cartridge, not the .38 Special. Look carefully at the barrel to see if it is marked as ".38 S&W CTG" or if it's marked ".38 S&W Special CTG" (emphasis added). Most likely yours is marked for the .38 S&W and the cylinder was bored out by Cogswell & Harrison so that a longer .38 special cartridge would fit. Cautions: 1. If .38 Specials will chamber in the gun, use caution. Some of these conversions were poorly done (bored all the way through), but in any event the .38 S&W case is a larger diameter than the .38 Special. This can cause the .38 Special case to bulge and possibly crack. Use only standard pressure loads in these guns. 2. Your gun most likely does not have the sliding hammer block safety. If dropped with a round under the hammer it could possibly discharge! Changes occurred in 1944 to add the sliding hammer block safety in Victory models ("SV" s/n prefix). Supica lists one of these in the condition you described as betwen $120 to $200 (good to V.Good). Some of the conversions were also performed by "Parker Hale" in England. For what it's worth, my father bought one of these w/ a 5' barrel as a surplus gun via mail-order catalog in 1948 for $35(!). It was bored out to .38 Special too. Cases fired in it bulge but do not crack very often. As a home defense revolver it was fine but it's accuracy is no great shakes (due to the larger bullet diameter of the .38 S&W vs. .38 Special). It's still "in service" as my 81 year old mother's home(land) defense revolver. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

February 14, 2005, 08:02 PM	#3
Infidel Member Join Date: October 30, 2001 Location: CO Posts: 19	Thank you. That all fits exactly. There is a 'V' after the serial number. The right side of the barrel is marked ".38 S&W". The markings are hard to see,-- the gun has a lot of use wear. This revolver belongs to a friend who bought it used about 25-30 years ago for $25. He has put quite a bit of .38 Special ammo through it without a problem and now keeps it as a home defense gun (and loads 5, old habit). I was just intrigued by the Cogswell and Harrison stamp, but now it makes sense. Thank you.