More Swiss shooting

[Classic12]

Been busy shooting here in Switzerland, while the season is still nice. End of fall and winter is all about indoor shooting.

Saturday a few friends from our shooting club and I were invited to a shooting challenge organised by the shooting society of the Lausanne police corps (Lausanne being a city in Switzerland).

5 warm up shots (2&3) and then 4 X 5 shots in 5 minutes, 50, 40 and 30 seconds on the ISSF speed target at 25 meters for a total max of 200 points (warm up shots being used in case of a tie)

My weapon of choice in the ordnance division is my trusty Sig P210-1 in 7.65 mm parabellum (.30 Luger). Note the vintage ammo, still accurate.



2 warm up shots, great



3 warm up shots, still ok



Time to load up for the scoring shots



1st pass, ouch



2nd pass, better



3rd pass, agonisingly missing the 10



Last pass, finally a nice one



Total score of 181 (the secretary struggles with additions)

[Classic12]

Yesterday I went to another nice shooting range for some rifle and pistol practice



300 meters open sights with a milsurp Sig 510-1 (StGw 90). EDIT 550-1, not 510-1

I am on lane 7, they closed one out of two lanes for social distancing / Covid



The contraption on the side is a brass deflector







A couple of 80/100











Then I fiddled with sight adjustment a bit



And finally turned in a decent score despite a 6 and a 7

[Classic12]

Finally some 25 meters pistol practice next door

CZ 75

I’ve been struggling a bit with this pistol so I asked the gunsmith to improve the trigger a bit, he deburred some parts and it improved it quite a bit.





Sig P220 (ex Lausanne police)





Colt Mk IV 9mm Luger





Milsurp Waffenfabrik Parabellum 06/29





Milsurp Sig P49 (210-2)

[Rockrivr1]

Nice shooting! Looks like a lot of fun. I especially like the electronic gear you have at your rifle range. Looks like it makes shooting much easier for long range shots. Very nice.

[aarondhgraham]

Just out of curiosity,,,
How is the ammunition situation over there?

I would be curious to know how much 9mm ammo costs per round.

Aarond

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[BJung]

Just out of curiosity...
What is the Swiss outlook about gun rights compared to the US?
They are known for being intelligent compared to many Americans than misuse guns and ruin it for the rest.

[ghbucky]

Wow, nice day at the range. Loving the gizmos on the rifle range

[DaleA]

As Ghbucky said, that is quite a sophisticated range you shoot at.

We have some "technologically advanced" ranges here in the USA but I've not been to one. Electric target carriers is as about advanced as I've personally encountered here and growing up "the range" for a lot of us geezers was the ditch by the side of a country road and the targets were old beer cans. But access was free, they were open 24/7 and there were plenty of targets.

[Spats McGee]

Outstanding!

[Classic12]

Originally Posted by aarondhgraham

Just out of curiosity,,,
How is the ammunition situation over there?

I would be curious to know how much 9mm ammo costs per round.

Aarond

.

We do not experience shortages driven by election anguish like you guys have, supply is steady and plentiful, lots of European ammo (Ruag / Geco, Sellier & Bellot), Brazilian Magtech, even Winchester white box. Best deals are around $ 200 / 1000.

[Classic12]

Originally Posted by burbank_jung

Just out of curiosity...
What is the Swiss outlook about gun rights compared to the US?
They are known for being intelligent compared to many Americans than misuse guns and ruin it for the rest.

You have a minute?

Switzerland has the reputation of being a very gun friendly country, especially compared to neighbouring countries in Europe.

However new gun laws are being introduced under the pressure of the European Union with whom Switzerland has bilateral commercial trade accords.

You need to apply for a gun permit at the bureau of arms for each gun. Cost is $ 50 per permit. For that you obviously need a virgin criminal record. You may put up to three guns on the same permit but those have to be bought the same day from the same seller. That leads to some regrouping amongst sellers at gun shows, and also to some compulsive buying, to fill the third line and amortise the permit.

We used to be allowed to carry, concealed only, but that now requires another permit which is nearly impossible to get unless your profession requires it. Private transaction used to be allowed without permit but that’s no longer the case.

We are still allowed to acquire and possess full auto weapons for collection purposes, or professional needs. Those require an exceptional permit, which has a few more conditions required, such as already having a small collection, a bolted safe, bolts have to be stored separately and another permit is required to shoot them.

This limits interest in them and they are therefore fairly cheap here, say $ 2-2500 for an M16, $ 1500 for a Glock 18, HK MP5 start at $ 2000, a Thompson starts at $ 1800 etc..

One last point, the Swiss army is a militia / conscripts army. The particularity was that service was spread over years, you started with basic training for four months (plus another three if you go to under officer school), then you’d have a repeating or training three weeks course every year until a certain age, depending on your grade. I think it used to be close to 40 yrs for private, and up for officers.

At the end of you service you have the possibility to keep your service rifle (for private) or pistol (for officers). Therefore attics and gunshots are littered with old straight pull rifles K31, Stgw 57 and 90 (full auto bits are removed) Swiss revolvers, Lugers, P210 and 220. Nowadays and with the end of the Cold War 30 years ago, the Swiss army has been drastically reduced and professionalised, went from 600’000 potential soldiers including reservists to abt 150’000 today. It’s still conscripts but shorter and a lot more kids get away without having to do it. Which in a way is a shame, as it’s good life introduction for the 18 yr old knuckleheads (my son in law was sadly exempted, it would have done him a world of good).

We have very few gun related crimes and/or accidents, Swiss citizens and gun owners in particular are considered as very responsible people. We also have a very low crime rate so most gun owners are collectors and/or shooters, meaning we do not have armed ordinary citizens with zero gun training, which can be a real hazard.

[Classic12]

And shot a couple of Berettas 92 single action tonight

92 combat









92 Steel I

[FITASC]

Switzerland is known for handgun and rifle shooting, what about clay target sports such as Int'l bunker, IISF skeet and FITASC sporting? Possibly Helice?

[Classic12]

Originally Posted by FITASC

Switzerland is known for handgun and rifle shooting, what about clay target sports such as Int'l bunker, IISF skeet and FITASC sporting? Possibly Helice?

Those also exist here, although I had never heard of Helice before, had to look it up.

I have a shooting buddy who shoots a lot of clay shooting, called ball trap here, I’ll ask him about it.

[JohnKSa]

I love the little tape printout with each score and a direction on the target so you know which direction the shot went out from center. Very neat and simple.

Thanks for providing the overview of firearm ownership. It's always interesting to see what gun owners in other countries must go through.

Your 9mm prices are actually quite good assuming that the price you provided is quoted in dollars.

[FrankenMauser]

Cool.
You're that Chap on the Range guy, aren't you?


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[FITASC]

Where are those clay target clubs in Switzerland? I'd be curious to look them up on Goggle Earth. I did find one Schützenhaus near Zug; interesting arrangement shooting to either 200 or 300 meters

[Classic12]

Originally Posted by FITASC

Where are those clay target clubs in Switzerland? I'd be curious to look them up on Goggle Earth. I did find one Schützenhaus near Zug; interesting arrangement shooting to either 200 or 300 meters

One I know is in Versoix near Geneva

https://stv-versoix.ch/ball-trap/

Another one is the ball trap club Montreux Villeneuve

http://btcmontreuxvilleneuve.ch/

[FITASC]

Thanks!

[Classic12]

Took out the Stgw 57 (Sig 510) at 300 meters



As both the rifle and the shooter warmed up, scores increased gradually

[Classic12]

I finished with 10 shots on the field target

[Classic12]

And some 25 m shooting with a few Sig P210

This is a 210-4 from the German border protection, made in the early 50ies (52 maybe) with Sig wooden sports grips



A Swiss milsurp 210-2 which I had hard chromed



And a first year delivery 210-1 from 1949

[ghbucky]

That electronic shot recording thing is crazy. Apparently the CMP range in Florida has them.

Detects shot impact by sound. I wonder how accurate it is and how would you know if it was wrong?

[Classic12]

Originally Posted by ghbucky

That electronic shot recording thing is crazy. Apparently the CMP range in Florida has them.

Detects shot impact by sound. I wonder how accurate it is and how would you know if it was wrong?

Many ranges have the old system Polytronic TG 6300

Accuracy is given at under 5 mm

Here is the factsheet

https://www.polytronic.ch/sites/defa...G%206300_e.pdf

The company is in business since 1966, in Switzerland all the 300 m ranges (several hundreds) are equipped by this company so I’m pretty sure they know their stuff.

https://www.polytronic.ch/en

[darkgael]

Camp Perry, Port Clinton, Ohio offers electronic scoring at the Petrarca Rifle and Pistol Range and at the indoor Gary Anderson Shooting Center.