August 17, 2008, 02:47 PM | #51 |
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Well, here we go again with the "minimum caliber for SD" discussion.
I vaguely remember an article by Massad Ayoob in which he decided (after testing in ballistic gelatin) that 22 Magnum could be at about the same level as 38 Special. Some folks, including many police departments of the old days, considered 38 Special to be the minimum. Another thought: Some folks say they don't like XX caliber for SD because of slow recovery times, and therefore, slow follow-up shots. Along this line of logic, a 22 Magnum could be superior to many, many other calibers. I bet I could pump 10 rounds of 22 Magnum into a target faster than 2 or 3 rounds of 45 ACP. After that many rounds, one of them is bound to hit the heart or brain. Personal confidence also factors into this. Recoil-sensitive folks sometimes flinch (anticipate the shot) so badly, that they shoot 3 feet low. I'd rather have my wife hit with a 22 Mag instead of a miss with a 45.
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November 6, 2010, 12:31 PM | #52 |
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Most definately
Its a historical curiousity that the 22 short was first marketed as a self defense round. it penetrates very deeply for such a small and slow moving bullet. more than hv 22lr via wet phone books. a 22 magnum with full metal jacket rounds would be best to ensure deep penetration to hit the blood bearing organs. i think the use of a 22 is more about confidence. bore size increases the illusion that you have more of a margin for error, with a 22 there is none. you have to make the shots count nomatter what you use.
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November 6, 2010, 12:37 PM | #53 | |
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November 6, 2010, 02:33 PM | #54 |
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Of course a 9 mm is better, a 45 better than 9 mm, a 12 guage better than a 45 and an M60 with a 100 round belt better than that etc. - however a NAA 22 mag in the pocket is a big suprise for bad things - you can carrry it in a bathing suit - try that with you 9 mm - I carry one a lot, and somthing bigger in the car or home - make sense to me
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November 6, 2010, 05:25 PM | #55 |
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Welcome Mark3smle. Good to see this old thread back from the grave.
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November 7, 2010, 10:45 AM | #56 |
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22mag
I have never had a misfire out of a 22mag
But I have had on the 22 lr. I have the Keltec pmr30 at home in 22 mag. Perfect little 30 round capicity |
October 10, 2011, 11:19 PM | #57 |
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Yes, the Taurus .22 mag revolver has misfire problems...more
The Taurus that has been mentioned several times in several threads does have misfire problems. When I sent mine in for repair, after firing the first load, only 3 out of 8 fired, it came back the trigger must be at about 9 lbs.
They do have the lightweight snub back into production which I wanted in the first place but none were available. This one that I have is heavy as a lead cannonball. Overall on the subject of the .22 mag, I do have a Henry pump action which is extremely accurate and fun to shoot. Scoped properly at the reasonable range, you gonna take as many small animals as your bud with a larger, more powerful load. I can tell you, although its taken longer than I thought to become number one on everyone's list, my absolute preference with DCC is without a doubt the small, light, very powerful .32 NAA. For those of you who dont know its a .38 brass necked down to a .32 and constantly reads over 1000 fps. With the hollowpoint, get me out of the front of that tiny beast! Also, .22 mag semi autos have never seemed to make muster due to some quirk in the shape/size of the bullet that frustrates gun manufacturers and would surely frustrate the user. If you shoot at a bad guy with a .22 mag pistol and miss, it will scare the h*** out of him. Something about the 'pitch' not specifically in decibels is deafening, and the flame thrower effect it has would probably be pretty effective both day and night at close range.
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October 11, 2011, 04:32 PM | #58 |
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The never ending is a 22 ok to shoot someone with thread.
Some say no, some say yes. Its a crap shoot no matter what you carry IMHO. |
October 11, 2011, 06:41 PM | #59 |
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In No Second Place Winner Bill Jordan recommended an airweight S&W in 22 Magnum-he wrote in 1965 or so, such a revolver was not on the market then. We are going to wage the Caliber Wars until the Crack of Doom, it makes for a good debate during slow times. Again, any gun beats fists, foul language, your "mighty karate chop", etc.
Regarding bullet placement, I am reminded of Charlie Askins' definition of a "belly gun"-"you put it against your enemy's belly and pull the trigger." It seems to that within the FBI's definition of "2.7 shots at 10 feet in low light" a 22 Mag should get your opponent's attention and distract him long enough for you to come up with Plan B. |
October 11, 2011, 07:00 PM | #60 |
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Having a S&W317, NAA BlackWidow, Ruger Single Six , I shoot a lot of 22. At least its a gun if you need one. Also carry 38 and 9 .
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October 11, 2011, 07:19 PM | #61 |
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the .22 magnum is a very good choice for ccw. light weight and packs a punch.
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October 11, 2011, 07:27 PM | #62 |
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Deja Vu - all over again
.22 mag would not be my choice. If I have to use a weapon it is to save life. I am not going to entrust my life to a caliber designed to harvest larger small game (raccoons, Wood chucks etc.)
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October 13, 2011, 03:42 PM | #63 |
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I've shot both .22 mag winchester dyna pointes and the new speer gold dot 40 grain hollow pointes straight through 1.5" solid wood and into a wet phone book ways, shooting at a distance of about 6'. Also shot both these rounds thru 3/4" plywood and even deeper thru a wet phone book as well. I have pics one day I may post. The .22 lr and shorts did not come close to this performace being fired out of the same gun. The gun I have is a 1 1/8" mini convertable, north american arms. The .22 mag gets badley underated here. I usually carry a double action revolver loaded with .38's but always have the mini on me. at close range the .22 mag will do it if it can be done, not so much confidence in the .22 long rifle's out of a short barrell but the power jump with the .22 mag, even in the short barrell is impressive for it's size. I save the long rifles and shorts for practice and plinking. Until speer came out with the gold dot I found using copper jacketed bullets wether they be hollow point or not, the jacket would restrict any possibility of expansion or deformation when striking the test median. I found the dyna-pointes, being copper washed not plated gave me the best penetration and tended to almost expand and deform due to soft lead slug not encased in a jacket. I bought and tried the gold dots and they do perform better in the expansion (more consistant) than the dyna pointes but equal in penetration.
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October 13, 2011, 04:58 PM | #64 |
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This is a TRIPLE Zombie thread. Started in 2005, reanimated in 2008, again in 2010 and again in 2011. What is the purpose of a defensive handgun? It is to incapacitate a threat as quickly as possible. It is not to scare someone. It is not to kill someone now or in the distant future. To even consider that someone would not want to be shot with any given bullet is irrelevant. I don't want a splinter in my finger either. The most common mechanism that a bullet causes incapacitation is by causing massive hemorrhaging. Chose a cartridge which will reliably deliver a bullet or bullets accurately and quickly. You can not miss fast enough to win a gun fight. Additionally, those bullets must also penetrate sufficiently to cause tissue destruction and hemorrhaging. The more the better so long as the bullets remain in the target. This is why larger starting bullet diameters are generally better. Volume of vascular tissue destroyed is related to the speed that the threat is incapacitated. Chose the handgun and cartridge that you will carry, are competent with and are willing to maintain your competency with. I submit that within the generally accepted defensive cartridges (9mm para, .38 spl up to .45 ACP and .45 Colt class which are less powerful than full .44 Rem. Mag. loads) you will still need to consider that two well placed shots to center of mass will not always end the threat in less than a few seconds. Certainly do not expect the fight to end instantaneously. Note that if a 150 - 200 pound white tail deer that is shot with a 30/06 in the heart can still run 100 yards, a human that is determined to fight will also have time to fight even when shot in the heart with a much less powerful handgun bullet.
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October 14, 2011, 05:00 PM | #65 |
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ArcherAndshooter:
I certainly wouldn't want to be shot with a 22 magnam because it will kill you, but how quick. It does little good to kill an adversary if he kills you before he dies. Nothing under a 9mm/38 special should be used for self defence. Semper Fi. Gunnery sergeant Clifford L. Hughes USMC Retired |
October 14, 2011, 05:16 PM | #66 |
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My .22 mag is one of my CC "options", and it's always good to have options.
I can hide it out in situations where doing the same with my PPS, or commander 1911 is impossible. |
October 14, 2011, 09:37 PM | #67 |
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i believe in options too for a 7oz. rig its pretty tough to beat, im more comfortable throwing this in my pocket than my p32
they definately have their place, with deep cover its going to be the element of surprise and draw to shoot, its not gonna be a "freeze motherxxxer" type scenario. |
October 14, 2011, 09:50 PM | #68 |
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Having read the posts here I have decided that if I'm in danger of being attacked by a sheet of plywood, a wet phone book or a plastic jug of water then I'm going to start carrying a .22 Mag. In the mean time I'll stick to a .40 or .45.
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October 14, 2011, 11:59 PM | #69 |
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Yes Shotgun; as an adult American, you have every right to make that choice.
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January 8, 2012, 11:15 PM | #70 |
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As far as all the guys saying all that crap about how the 22 win mag is ineffective I dont know about you but I wouldnt want to get shot with a 22 short much less a magnum so anyway you slice it you won't be thinking about mugging with a 22 slug in you
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January 8, 2012, 11:37 PM | #71 |
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The 22 mag is'nt just a bigger 22 lr-it's a different cartridge altogether.
It's pretty nasty for a rimfire round. I think the bad guy would notice the difference between it and a 22LR. |
January 8, 2012, 11:47 PM | #72 |
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i didnt read the whole thread, so i dont know if this has been said before or not, but you could use those 22 mag shotshells, a couple of them to the face would blind the guy. he cant attack you if he cant see.
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January 9, 2012, 09:05 AM | #73 |
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Ruger LCR
I purchased a Ruger SP-101 3" 357 for carry, problem is it's just to heavy and difficult to conceal. Good trail gun. I'm now looking at the LCR available in 22lr but all things considered I think the LCR in 357/38 just makes more sense reliable and light easy to conceal. I have a Ruger cowboy .22 convertable and it's alot of fun to shoot 22mags but for carry .38 minimum for me. My house pistol, Ruger New super blackhawk .44 mag filled with .44 sp To each his own.
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January 9, 2012, 11:46 AM | #74 |
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I would caution against using shotshells to try to blind. I know it was part of NAA's ads.
1. Risky at a distance to be effective. Modern polycarbonate glasses might block the little pellets. 2. If the shooting is ambiguous, blinding someone for a truly debilitating and permanent injury injury may not look nice to a jury. Discussed in the legal and military weapons usage literature.
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January 9, 2012, 11:55 AM | #75 | |
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