Need Help Identifying Shotgun

carlfromsouthafrica · September 12, 2014, 02:36 PM

I also need help identifying an inherited 12GG s/s shotgun please. I was lead to believe that the gun is a Wesley Richards that belonged to a Scotsman. The licence in my possession was issued in 1945 in the name of the 2nd owner. The serial number is 93, but there is no manufacturer's name. I am hoping that somebody may recognise the stamp mark between the firing pins (resembles a WB) as that of a particular manufacturer. I attach some photographs in a separate response lower down.

JMP · September 12, 2014, 04:55 PM

CarlfromSA I can't help identify it but the pictures you have are tiny. If you have links to bigger pictures it might help those who might be able to help you.

Jim Watson · September 12, 2014, 08:01 PM

I was able to blow up the picture of the barrel flats enough to recognize Belgian proof marks. It is not a real Westley Richards, but there were a lot of knockoffs and counterfeits.

RJay · September 12, 2014, 08:08 PM

Sorry to say, If it had been a real Wesley Richards it have been so marked on the barrel.

carlfromsouthafrica · September 14, 2014, 01:31 PM

I posted some larger and clearer pictures. Have a look. I am convinced the stamp between the firing pins is associated with a specific manufacturer, just not sure which one or where to go and research identifying markings.

Somebody told me that the lack of manufacturer's name between the barrels could be explained as "guns ordered in bulk and imported from an overseas manufacturer, allowing the local distributor to stamp his own barrels". Sounds highly unlikely to me.

Jim Watson · September 14, 2014, 01:38 PM

The best internet source on obscure European guns I know is
http://littlegun.be/

OK, look at the bottom picture in the right column at
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/18490292
"Possibly Charles Braekers & Cie"

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge...20cie%20gb.htm

Why yours is not fully marked, I don't know. Maybe sold by a small dealer who did not want the actual builder's name but couldn't come up with a stamp for his own trademark, either.

SDC · September 14, 2014, 03:16 PM

The mark between the firing pins looks like an arrow through an apple to me, which was a logo used by Max Fliegenschmidt of Liege, Belgium, before 1908.

RJay · September 14, 2014, 03:31 PM

I do believe SDC is correct, however regardless of who manufactured it, it is a unmarked Belgium shotgun.

James K · September 14, 2014, 05:40 PM

And not a Westley Richards.

Jim

carlfromsouthafrica · September 25, 2014, 01:22 PM

Thanks to all that replied and contributed. At least it gives me some further direction to research. Much appreciated.

carlfromsouthafrica · September 25, 2014, 02:31 PM

I believe JIM WATSON is spot on with Charles Braekers. The nature of the proof marks, their placement/positions and most other design details are identical to the gun in the link he sent me. SDC, I believe the mark between the firing pins is a very ornate CB. Thanks JIM.

September 12, 2014, 02:36 PM	#1
carlfromsouthafrica Junior Member Join Date: September 7, 2014 Posts: 5	Need Help Identifying Shotgun I also need help identifying an inherited 12GG s/s shotgun please. I was lead to believe that the gun is a Wesley Richards that belonged to a Scotsman. The licence in my possession was issued in 1945 in the name of the 2nd owner. The serial number is 93, but there is no manufacturer's name. I am hoping that somebody may recognise the stamp mark between the firing pins (resembles a WB) as that of a particular manufacturer. I attach some photographs in a separate response lower down. Last edited by carlfromsouthafrica; September 14, 2014 at 01:34 PM.

September 12, 2014, 08:08 PM	#4
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	Sorry to say, If it had been a real Wesley Richards it have been so marked on the barrel. __________________ Ron James

September 14, 2014, 01:38 PM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,534	The best internet source on obscure European guns I know is http://littlegun.be/ OK, look at the bottom picture in the right column at http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/18490292 "Possibly Charles Braekers & Cie" http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge...20cie%20gb.htm Why yours is not fully marked, I don't know. Maybe sold by a small dealer who did not want the actual builder's name but couldn't come up with a stamp for his own trademark, either. Last edited by Jim Watson; September 14, 2014 at 01:53 PM.

September 14, 2014, 03:16 PM	#7
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	The mark between the firing pins looks like an arrow through an apple to me, which was a logo used by Max Fliegenschmidt of Liege, Belgium, before 1908. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

September 14, 2014, 03:31 PM	#8
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	I do believe SDC is correct, however regardless of who manufactured it, it is a unmarked Belgium shotgun. __________________ Ron James

September 12, 2014, 04:55 PM	#2
JMP Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2010 Location: Wyoming Posts: 118	CarlfromSA I can't help identify it but the pictures you have are tiny. If you have links to bigger pictures it might help those who might be able to help you.

September 12, 2014, 08:01 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,534	I was able to blow up the picture of the barrel flats enough to recognize Belgian proof marks. It is not a real Westley Richards, but there were a lot of knockoffs and counterfeits.

September 14, 2014, 05:40 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	And not a Westley Richards. Jim

September 25, 2014, 01:22 PM	#10
carlfromsouthafrica Junior Member Join Date: September 7, 2014 Posts: 5	Thanks to all that replied and contributed. At least it gives me some further direction to research. Much appreciated.

September 25, 2014, 02:31 PM	#11
carlfromsouthafrica Junior Member Join Date: September 7, 2014 Posts: 5	I believe JIM WATSON is spot on with Charles Braekers. The nature of the proof marks, their placement/positions and most other design details are identical to the gun in the link he sent me. SDC, I believe the mark between the firing pins is a very ornate CB. Thanks JIM.

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