.223 enough for deer

[nemoaz]

I suspect these 300 Magnum users are compensating for some less than magnum item in their life. Last deer I saw hit with a 300 magnum (300 Ultramag at about 30 yards) had the front shoulder, neck and head blown off. Only a fricking moron thinks you need something like that for a 140 lb whitetail.

222 is commonly used in Europe. Of course, they are apparently better shots than the average "just shoot it in the ass and eventually it will die" US redneck I see in the woods swilling a MGD and toting large game rifles in the US.

A 223 has many times the energy of the rifles that our grandfathers used to hunt... and certainly more than the muzzle loading rifle or bow that so many of these rednecks use a few weeks prior to breaking out the bambi slaying high powered rifle.

I wouldn't hesitate to use a centerfire 22 with appropriate bullet at normal ranges--which means 100 yards are less in probably 95% of whitetail deer hunting. I may miss the opportunity to take a longer shot, but I'm willing to live with it.

[Loaded4yote]

That is a lot of gun, but it would probably do less meat damage than you think. Probably less damage than what a .223 with an improperly selected bullet or any of the standard magnums commonly used would do to a deer. Slow moving bullets really don't tear things up too bad.

True, But at 2100 fps and 5583 ft. lbs. energy at the muzzle I'd wager it would make the deer in question agree that a dirt nap would be in his immediate future... that is if he had time to think. But then you ask

If it is the only rifle you have go ahead and use it but if you have a better choice of rifle in the safe then I have to ask, Why?

I'd have to agree, Why?

The only reason I carry my .22-250 or .223 while deer hunting is the possibility of a fox, bobcat, or coyote passing by.

Otherwise I'd carry my .45-70. Either rifle will do. But both have disadvantages. Guess I'll have to buy a .243 Wife might not like it tho.

[Lawyer Daggit]

If you have other firearms in your safe- Why?

The answer is simple- if you are out hunting something else- for example fox and varmints and a deer or wild pig becomes a target of opportunity.

I have hot far more deer or pig with a .222 than with my .30-30, 7x57, .35 Whelen or .350 Rem Mag put together.

I would not shoot a large deer species like a Sambar with a .222, but when the opportunity affords itself with Fallow or Wild Pig, and I can pick my shot- I will take it.

Under no circumstances will I make a long or difficult shot though with a .222 on game larger than varmints.

[Wuchak]

One round for varmits, yotes, and deer + long range accuracy + the power to get the job done + manageable recoil = .257 Roberts (even better the .257 Roberts Ackley Improved). The once and still most useful cartridge ever created.





Don't know why but I just had to say that. I don't even own the .257 Roberts but I've got this itch for one.

[9mmkungfu]

Of course you can hunt deer with .223 -- haven't any of you seen "I Am Legend" yet??

Just kidding.

[taylorce1]

Loaded4yote and Lawyer Daggit, I don't live where the .22 caliber center fires are legal to hunt anything other than game animals classified as small game. In fact in Colorado it is illegal to hunt small game during any big game season with a firearm larger than a .22 cal unless you have a big game tag on you. In fact I've seen the Wardens ticket people for hunting varmints with their big game rifles after they filled their tags so that only leads me to believe that the reverse would be true. I wouldn't want to get caught carrying a .22 caliber rifle and an unfilled big game tag during season you might just get nailed for poaching.

To me I'd rather carry the bigger rifle and ruin a few pelts on varmints than have a bullet failure on a deer. I don't have the luxury of taking out targets of opportunity while hunting small game. While I know the .22 center fire rifles will work, I have no doubt in my mind that they are not ideal calibers for NA deer.

[Loaded4yote]

Sorry, taylorce1.

I wasn't taking a potshot at you or your oppinion. Please don't take it that way. I was simply making a jest about the comment of being to much gun for whitetails.

I realize that not every state allows .224 cal. rifles centerfire or otherwise to be used for larger game. And with good reason. As this thread shows just about everyone here agrees that .223 is on the lighter end of the caliber selection to use for whitetail. And again I agree with you when you ask "Why?"

My personal reason, as I stated before, was for the smaller critters that venture to close to my stand while I'm after Mr. thurdypointer. I choose to carry either the .223 or .22-250 because it cuts down on the sowing. And by doing so I can hopefully collect enough hides to sell and purchase a new rifle or possibly a niffty guided hunt to Colorado. Granted this definately limits my chances to bag Mr. Deer and put meat in the freezer because I have to be careful and pass up any shot I don't feel comfortable with.

And I belive that is the key. From .223 to M61A1 Vulcan Cannon, if it's legal and you feel comfortable with the shot. By all means use it.

Now, just need to get that M61A1 Legalized and Sporterized for us critter hunters


Again please take no offence to my statement. It was just my oppinion. For what its worth.

[sureshots]

I have hunted whitetail deer for forty-five years,started with the 30-30 cal. and have killed deer with many different calibers including 223,22-250,243,30-06 and 7mm. mag.,even killed A few with my SKS. I learned years ago whatever Cal. you use the important think is take the good shot. If you can't get the right shot pass on it. If you make A bad shot what difference does it make what cal. you're using. At best you are in for A long tracking job. I find no satisfaction in draging A gut shot deer for A mile or two in the dark. Shot placment is what its about. Most legal centerfires will do the job if you do yours.

[taylorce1]

Sorry, taylorce1.

I wasn't taking a potshot at you or your oppinion. Please don't take it that way. I was simply making a jest about the comment of being to much gun for whitetails.

None taken, I was just explaining really how I don't get targets of opportunity like there are in some States and the rest of the world. One deer a year for most hunters where I'm at, no pigs either but plenty of coyotes and prairie dogs. I'd hate to loose any animal from using a marginal caliber, hasn't happend yet and hope it never does.

[nate45]

I have used the 60 gr Nosler Partition and the Speer 70 gr to kill deer, with the .223 and the .22-250. I have never had them fail. Despite the conventional wisdom of the .243 with a 90 gr and up these two .22 weights perform well. The 64gr Winchester may work as well, but I have never used it.

[oneSoneK]

Iv hunted with the same .223 ruger mini 14 for 15 years. With the right ammo 55 grain bullet will never let you down. Now depending on where you hunt my longest shot is 150yds but thats just my stand. my grandpa owned the gun befor me and neither of us has any complaints

[22-rimfire]

All I can say is "things happen" when you are deer hunting. Sometimes things are just about perfect and you can take a clean shot. But often things aren't so perfect which is why I suggest 243/6mm or larger for deer.

Deer burger? I have most of the deer ground into deer burger.

[Lawyer Daggit]

Taylorforce1- I do not live in the US- so legality issues in US states do not effect me. Of course if using a .224 projectile is illegal in your state I would not recommend it.

I realise there are so called multi purpose calibres out there- and I certainly consider the .257 Roberts to be a better choice than the .243 Winchester, because of the superior range of projectiles available for it, however in my respectful opinion these compromise calibres are too noisy (spooking game and making farmers and their families jittery) and recoil too much to be considered a serious contender as a varmint gun, which is likely to be fired many times during an outing.

The Deer I come across here are Fallow, not Whitetail (indeed I have never hunted Whitetail) and they tend to be about the size of a goat. I have found that with proper bullet placement I always quickly kill the animal with this calibre (.222).

When hunting with the intention of taking a Fallow deer I carry my 7x57.

[Fremmer]

Daggit, you just blew our image of the absolutely precise, sober, white-necked, gentlemanly European hunter who never misses and kills elephants with a .222!

[Lawyer Daggit]

Fremmer- I am limey by birth but Australian by adoption!

[MaineColt]

Here in Maine, it is OK, (legal) to use 22 rimfire mag for deer hunting.

Kev

[KCabbage]

Greetings all.
I'm not too experienced in the topic, but take a look at the Barnes 62gr. triple-shock.
Take care

[mchgnmike]

Yes, I believe the .223 is the minimum for hunting whitetail deer provided you have quality ammunition and proper shot placement.
He is the my daughters first deer she shot at about 70 yards with my AR using Hornady TAP 60 grain bullets. The deer ran about 30 yards after she was shot. Couldn't see the entrance wound and there wasn't an exit wound. She shot it in the heart and lungs, the bullet fragments even penetrated the bladder. Awesome ammunition.

[KCabbage]

I thought hitting the bladder was a no-no

[oneounceload]

use the heavier bullet weights and the.223 will kill deer....I personally prefer a 7-08, my 7 mag was too much on mulies....

[jimbob86]

Driving A bigger Car doesn't make you A better Driver.

Nope. But by driving a full-sized 4x4 Pick-up Truck, (as opposed to a Honda Civic) you expand your capabilities. As for the .gov choosing the "Civic", it is a question of economics for them. It is cheaper to feed a 1/2 million "Civics" and train 1/4 million new "Civic" drivers every year than it is to do the same with 4x4 pick-ups and drivers for them. It matters not, to them, if a few civic driver get squished on the freeway because their vehichle wasn't up to the task.

If you are hunting deer that weigh more than 100 lbs on average, and the buck of a lifetime steps out of a treeline 200 yards away while you are carrying your poodleshooter (which many here deem adequate provided the shot is short and conditions are ideal and the deer is small and and and...) one of 4 things will happen:


1) You will wisely realize that the shot is beyond the capabilities of your equipment, and pass on the shot, kicking yourself because you did not bring enough gun.

2) You let buck fever get the best of you and take the shot, wounding the deer, though not enough to recover it. The deer runs off, to die slowly as you kick yourself for not bringing enough gun.

3) You let buck fever get the best of you and take the shot, and through a COMBINATION of your skill and a lot of LUCK the bullet performs well enough to kill the animal quick enough that you can recover it. This is probably the worst outcome, as your tales of the deed will no doubt encourage others (perhaps less skilled or lucky) to try to surpass it with longer shots or smaller guns, resulting in MORE lost animals.

4) You let buck fever really get to you and you miss altogether, though it would be hard to tell as your popgun's round doesn't make for much of a kugelschlag......

Commute in a Civic if you MUST, but it sure is nice to be able to have the ability to do some hauling if the job calls for it.

[jimbob86]

She shot it in the heart and lungs, the bullet fragments even penetrated the bladder. Awesome

AWESOME Pic!!!
Awsome bullet placement. Is that little pink spot low on the deer's left side the entance wound?
Busted bladder.....:barf: That would be a "bullet failure" in my book. But then, the primary object in hunting for me is meat, and I am not fond of urine as a marinade.......

[jimbob86]

Is that "Michigan Mike or Machinegun Mike?

If it's Michigan, then I hope that is not the average size of those "Northern Monster Whitetails" I hear about. 'Round here, deer that small may still have spots in November.....

[Smokey Joe]

Jim Bob 86--What the (beep) is a "kugelschlag"???

[jimbob86]

Jeff Cooper used that term (It is Dutch/Afrikaans or German- kugel means ball in both languages, IIRC. Schlag is "to hit" in Duetsche, also IIRC) in his writings. It is the sound of a bullet hitting an animal. It is plainest with big bullets, on big animals..... my granpa had a different word for it- "WHOP!"