The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 2, 2014, 07:03 PM   #26
Daffy
Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2012
Posts: 63
What 44 AMP said.
Daffy is offline  
Old January 2, 2014, 11:03 PM   #27
mnoirot64
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2013
Location: Clarksville, Tennessee
Posts: 365
I apply a heavy crimp to all of my 44 magnum hand loads. Once the taper crimp is set up, I do not have to readjust it unless I change to a different bullet design. The velocity is better with the heavy crimp and the accuracy is not affected. And as everyone else has said, why take a chance on jamming your revolver?
mnoirot64 is offline  
Old January 2, 2014, 11:21 PM   #28
oldpapps
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2011
Location: Middle America
Posts: 518
Sevens,

I full agree with you.
But, I'm not about to 'tell' anyone what to do or not to do. In both of my entries above I stated that I do crimp all of my loads. Perhaps this isn't fully explained. I load three .44 mag loads;
My wimp load. I would like to say that it is so wimpy because my granddaughters shoot it but it predates their mother. I don't crimp this load, if a 5 year old can handle the recoil...
My heavy lead loading, the same 240 grains lead bullet but far from being a wimp load. This is crimped, a taper or factory crimp normally.
And finally my heavy jacketed load. Also a 240 grain but JHP and very stiff. This is crimped with a solid role crimp.

I have used many different powders over the years and now only use three, 231, 2400 and Olin 630, used in the same order as listed above. The greater portion of my .44 loads are the first, wimp. Fewer of the heavy lead loads and very few of the jacketed loads. I have 2 S&W 29s, love them both and I don't tax them any more that I have to.

Looking at the base results of the 'crimp' test, it is apparent (to me) that a medium crimp on a heavy loading of 2400 is the best way to go. How ever a very heavy crimp, in my mind (it is cracked) only buckles the brass and reduced the final bullet pull upon firing. Mind you this is only 2400 powder and to make it worse, these tests were using 'old' Hercules manufactured 2400 powder. I have pushed 231 powder to produce very similar velocities as my standard 2400 loading. (I don't like it as it is a max loading for that powder where 2400 has some leeway above this loading.) These too are crimped. I don't like 296/H110 or Lt'Gun for use in 44s for various reasons but I would speculate that with them (or any other powder combination that produces greater velocities) a crimp would be the wisdom thing to do, I think I would. Now would any of these benefit from the crimp? That would only be determined by testing.

All of the above said, "Heavy loads may need to be crimped, I do." This is a simple response and to the point.

Load with care,

OSOK
oldpapps is offline  
Old January 4, 2014, 11:16 AM   #29
Ozzieman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 6,117
3rd thing is the continual contention about crimps affecting accuracy.
In handguns, #3 doesn't seem to be a significant issue.

44 AMP, Sir I respectfully disagree with that. Very little to a firm crimp I agree with you but over crimping will effect accuracy. I have experienced that with plated bullets in a 6 inch 624 the first time I loaded plated.
Granted it was a mistake on my part and just 20 test rounds but accuracy suffered.
As you do, I crimp all hand gun loads. All!
__________________
It was a sad day when I discovered my universal remote control did not in fact control the universe.

Did you hear about the latest study.....5 out of 6 liberals say that Russian Roulette is safe.
Ozzieman is offline  
Old January 4, 2014, 12:22 PM   #30
buck460XVR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2006
Posts: 4,341
This thread surprises me. Every time a new reloader comes to the forum, folks jump all over them and tells them to get two or three or seven manuals, read them 3 times and follow their every word. Every reloading manual I have ever read says the same thing. Heavy recoiling magnum handgun ammo used in revolvers needs a firm roll crimp to prevent bullet jump and to aid in the ignition and combustion of the slow burning powders that are used in those types of loads. Exceptions would be plated or other bullets with no cannelure. These bullets would not be used for heavy recoiling legitimate magnum revolver loads anyways. If a bullet has a cannelure and is going to be used in a revolver or tube feed carbine, there is no reason not to crimp. You still need to remove the flare, regardless of how wimpy the load. Excessively over-crimping and deforming the bullet is possible also with taper and FCD and will lead to inaccuracy also. Not having all your cases the same length when roll crimping will lead to inconsistant crimp and thus, inconsistant accuracy. Not opinions, but fact.
buck460XVR is offline  
Old January 4, 2014, 06:24 PM   #31
markr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Location: Arsenal of Democracy
Posts: 405
That's what I'm saying. Why even screw around with not crimping?
__________________
I like to make beer, bullets, and jerky.....but not at the same time.

Washed up 11B1P
markr is offline  
Old January 4, 2014, 10:21 PM   #32
dbell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2012
Posts: 1
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I have been reloading .44mag for my Ruger Super Blackhawk w/ 10.5" barrel sence 1995. I use Hornady 240 xtp, Win 296 @ 27.6g, CCI 350 primer and a Medium crimp. benched with a red dot scope 3" groups at 100 yards. I use this for deer hunting. They drop when they are hit.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; January 8, 2014 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Over Max Warning
dbell is offline  
Old January 5, 2014, 08:37 AM   #33
Salmoneye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 2,076
I'll add fuel to the fire...

To prevent 'jump' and aid in ignition, not only do .44 Mag rounds need to be crimped for handguns, but they also need to be crimped to prevent bullet setback in heavy recoiling rounds that are in tube magazines...

While I don't care about the deformation of the bullet, I do worry about the setback of the bullet on the right (and left to lesser extent) after firing a few rounds with these furtherr in the tube of my Marlin...

This load did not 'pull' in my Super Blackhawk, but they sure moved in the 1894...

Salmoneye is offline  
Old January 5, 2014, 12:39 PM   #34
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,675
n a revolver, all you have to deal with is bullet weight and inertia in recoil. IN a lever carbine, you have a column of ammo, under spring pressure in the mag tube. The rounds actually "slam" back and forth in the tube, from recoil, and the spring.

Personally I wouldn't worry overmuch about the setback shown in the pic (although if you are working with a max load you might be wise to be concerned). If the bullet movement was enough to "break" out of the cannelure, than I would be very concerned indeed.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old January 6, 2014, 08:33 AM   #35
Real Gun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Location: SC
Posts: 2,743
Quote:
Salmoneye - I'll add fuel to the fire...

To prevent 'jump' and aid in ignition, not only do .44 Mag rounds need to be crimped for handguns, but they also need to be crimped to prevent bullet setback in heavy recoiling rounds that are in tube magazines...

While I don't care about the deformation of the bullet, I do worry about the setback of the bullet on the right (and left to lesser extent) after firing a few rounds with these furtherr in the tube of my Marlin...

This load did not 'pull' in my Super Blackhawk, but they sure moved in the 1894...


I think the crimp position on the far right is better and has a chance of providing a mechanical limit to how far the bullet can move back. The rounds on the left appear to rely on neck tension. Factory rounds I see leave the crimp groove barely visible.
Real Gun is offline  
Old January 6, 2014, 12:16 PM   #36
Salmoneye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 2,076
Quote:
I think the crimp position on the far right is better and has a chance of providing a mechanical limit to how far the bullet can move back. The rounds on the left appear to rely on neck tension. Factory rounds I see leave the crimp groove barely visible.
I agree that the one on the right will likely not move much further inward, but as I stated, I loaded these for my SBH where I had no issues with bullet 'pull'...

I then fired some in my Marlin to see what would happen...The picture is the result of either 3 or 4 fired rounds (don't remember now)...

I only posted this pic as a reminder that it is not just 'pull' that needs to be addressed with .44 Mag...If loading for a tubular magazine, one should also crimp to prevent setback...

I have now stopped using any jacketed bullets but Hornady as they are .430", and do not move in or out on me with the tension (and crimp) provided by my RCBS carbide dies...

My SBH and the 1894 both love them, also...
Salmoneye is offline  
Old January 6, 2014, 01:24 PM   #37
mnoirot64
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2013
Location: Clarksville, Tennessee
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr
Why even screw around with not crimping? What would the benefit be?
Exactly. You're already set up. If you're not changing bullet types cannelure vs non-cannelure, just set up to taper or roll crimp and be done with it.
__________________
Michael Noirot
Life Member - NRA

Clarksville, Tennessee
mnoirot64 is offline  
Old January 6, 2014, 07:56 PM   #38
pete2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,566
Yes, you need to crimp .44 mags. You also better crimp for the .45 Colt. Guess how I know this.
pete2 is offline  
Old January 8, 2014, 04:26 PM   #39
WESHOOT2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 14,324
I say

-gently taper-crimp (using the superior Redding Profile Crimp die); test for accuracy and ballistic uniformity

-adjust crimp; re-test

Stop when your personal goals (for accuracy and uniformity) are met.


Some shooters have low goals
__________________
.
"all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"
WESHOOT2 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08754 seconds with 8 queries