Pinnacle

Doc Hoy · August 24, 2012, 10:20 AM

Came up with some GOEX Pinnacle in 50 grain equivalent plugs.

Coupla questions from a guy who does not ever shoot long arms:

1. Can I cut the plugs in half with a sharp knife and get 25 grain equivalent or is this too dangerous?

2. Can I crush the plugs and get powder (I can figure out the energy contained per volume) or is this too dangerous?

3. If I can cut the plugs in half and use them as 25 grains, will they compress for example in a .44 caliber revolver, to the point where the air spaces are gone?

4. This is a rhetorical question.....Why in the world would GOEX think that folks wanted such a useless product?

I don't mean to offend anyone who loves these things and I am standing by for the deluge of criticism for my narrow minded, underinformed opinion. (Every one of you knows that I don't allow my ignorance of some topic prevent me from spouting off.)

mykeal · August 24, 2012, 03:00 PM

1 & 2: I don't see any danger as long as you are careful not to saw or grind enough to generate heat.
3: I have no idea.
4: In-line shooters love them.

thallub · August 24, 2012, 03:13 PM

Quote:

4. This is a rhetorical question.....Why in the world would GOEX think that folks wanted such a useless product?

i can't answer that question. JSG and Pinnacle "sticks" as they are called are unreliable at best. To get them to work add 5-10 grains of BP or BP substitute or partially crush the sticks with the ramrod. When Hodgdon bought out Goex it stopped selling Pinnacle.

i have used Pinnacle granular powder since it came out in 2005-06. Pinnacle granular powder likes a tight fitting sabot seated very hard on the powder. Lots of folks can't make granular Pinnacle work because they won't lean on the ramrod and compress the powder.

Doc Hoy · August 24, 2012, 03:14 PM

Thanks Mykeal.

All, please forgive my tantrum.

mykeal · August 24, 2012, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Goex bought out Hodgdon

Wasn't it the other way around?

thallub · August 24, 2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Wasn't it the other way around?

Yep, Hodgdon bought out Goex. Sorry for the boo boo.

Chowmif16 · August 24, 2012, 09:44 PM

Question #4: I suppose the real answer is that they figured that the lazy blasphemers who use in-line for ML hunting season would want an easy, pre-measured pellet that requires no thought for loading/re-loading.

Oops, is my traditional bias showing through??

P.S. If this message has offended anyone, I'm only marginally sorry.

Moderators, please don't kick me out.

Hawg · August 25, 2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Question #4: I suppose the real answer is that they figured that the lazy blasphemers who use in-line for ML hunting season would want an easy, pre-measured pellet that requires no thought for loading/re-loading.

Oops, is my traditional bias showing through??

P.S. If this message has offended anyone, I'm only marginally sorry.

Exactly and I don't care if I offend inliners.

Doc Hoy · August 26, 2012, 04:55 AM

I pulled out a dozen of the pellets from this container.

The pellets weighed everywhere from 35 to 40 gr. What's that...37.5 plus or minus 7 %?

I know that we don't really care about the weight of the charge, but it sure seems as though that much variation in charge would be of concern to a discriminating shooter (which I am not).

I know nothing about the manufacturing process for these plugs but it certainly seems as though it would be easy to make plugs that weigh the same.

On the other hand, it is possible that the weight of the pellet can not be related to the power in the charge in a given container of the sticks. It is possible that even though the sticks have different weights, they still produce essentially the same power. As I said, I know nothing about the manufacturing process.

Hawg · August 26, 2012, 07:36 AM

You cant use smokeless standards with bp Doc. 5 grains with a 30 grain+ bp load isn't going to be noticeable unless maybe you shoot competition. IMHO tho you're not going to be happy with pellets.

Doc Hoy · August 26, 2012, 07:41 AM

I am trying to figure out ways to crush it back into a powder and mix it with loose powder or maybe shoot it up just on its own. I am just wondering how the compression process changed the propellant characteristics.

By that I mean is 30 grains of crushed sticks the same of 30 grains of powder straight from the container.

This is a lot of conversation over a relatively minor issue.

Hope y'all don't mind.

thallub · August 28, 2012, 09:29 AM

Quote:

I am trying to figure out ways to crush it back into a powder and mix it with loose powder or maybe shoot it up just on its own.

Your question was answered in post #3. The problem with Pinnacle sticks is the fact that they do not ignite easily. Load about 5 grains of BP or a substitute before loading the sticks or partially crush the sticks with the ramrod.

arcticap · August 28, 2012, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Hoy

By that I mean is 30 grains of crushed sticks the same of 30 grains of powder straight from the container.

One way to determine that is to use the conversion sheet linked below to determine if the weight of the individual pellets actually weigh 85% (FFFg) - 88% (FFg) of its stated black powder equivalent of 50 grains.
If it does then that would mean that the crushed Pinnacle pellet powder basically has the same potency as the other loose Pinnacle powders.
And the listed weights of the Pinnacle powders on the chart are not typographical errors. In a recent THR thread, it was posted that Pinnacle FFg does indeed weigh more than the FFFG.

http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

Doc Hoy · August 29, 2012, 03:32 AM

Now that....is a good chart.

Thanks dude.

August 24, 2012, 10:20 AM	#1
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Pinnacle Came up with some GOEX Pinnacle in 50 grain equivalent plugs. Coupla questions from a guy who does not ever shoot long arms: 1. Can I cut the plugs in half with a sharp knife and get 25 grain equivalent or is this too dangerous? 2. Can I crush the plugs and get powder (I can figure out the energy contained per volume) or is this too dangerous? 3. If I can cut the plugs in half and use them as 25 grains, will they compress for example in a .44 caliber revolver, to the point where the air spaces are gone? 4. This is a rhetorical question.....Why in the world would GOEX think that folks wanted such a useless product? I don't mean to offend anyone who loves these things and I am standing by for the deluge of criticism for my narrow minded, underinformed opinion. (Every one of you knows that I don't allow my ignorance of some topic prevent me from spouting off.) __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

August 24, 2012, 09:44 PM	#7
Chowmif16 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2012 Location: Huntsville, Utah Posts: 106	O.K., I'll bite... Question #4: I suppose the real answer is that they figured that the lazy blasphemers who use in-line for ML hunting season would want an easy, pre-measured pellet that requires no thought for loading/re-loading. Oops, is my traditional bias showing through?? P.S. If this message has offended anyone, I'm only marginally sorry. Moderators, please don't kick me out. __________________ Chowmi

August 26, 2012, 04:55 AM	#9
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Just weighed the pellets I pulled out a dozen of the pellets from this container. The pellets weighed everywhere from 35 to 40 gr. What's that...37.5 plus or minus 7 %? I know that we don't really care about the weight of the charge, but it sure seems as though that much variation in charge would be of concern to a discriminating shooter (which I am not). I know nothing about the manufacturing process for these plugs but it certainly seems as though it would be easy to make plugs that weigh the same. On the other hand, it is possible that the weight of the pellet can not be related to the power in the charge in a given container of the sticks. It is possible that even though the sticks have different weights, they still produce essentially the same power. As I said, I know nothing about the manufacturing process. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath. Last edited by Doc Hoy; August 26, 2012 at 05:09 AM.

August 26, 2012, 07:41 AM	#11
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I Agree... I am trying to figure out ways to crush it back into a powder and mix it with loose powder or maybe shoot it up just on its own. I am just wondering how the compression process changed the propellant characteristics. By that I mean is 30 grains of crushed sticks the same of 30 grains of powder straight from the container. This is a lot of conversation over a relatively minor issue. Hope y'all don't mind. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

August 29, 2012, 03:32 AM	#14
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Articap, Now that....is a good chart. Thanks dude. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

August 24, 2012, 03:00 PM	#2
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	1 & 2: I don't see any danger as long as you are careful not to saw or grind enough to generate heat. 3: I have no idea. 4: In-line shooters love them.

August 24, 2012, 03:14 PM	#4
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Thanks M. Thanks Mykeal. All, please forgive my tantrum. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

August 26, 2012, 07:36 AM	#10
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	You cant use smokeless standards with bp Doc. 5 grains with a 30 grain+ bp load isn't going to be noticeable unless maybe you shoot competition. IMHO tho you're not going to be happy with pellets.