Which Over And Under Shotgun?

BIGR · November 28, 2001, 10:05 PM

HELP...... I need you gun gurus advice on an over and under shotgun. The decision is between the Ruger Red Label and the Browning Citori. This over and under shotgun will mainly be used for upland bird hunting. I have looked around a little bit and it looks like the Browning will cost more and might be the lightest of the two guns weight wise.Being that I think the Browning is lighter how is the recoil from the 26 Inch barrel model? I would appreciate any input from anyone on this matter.

PJR · November 28, 2001, 10:55 PM

I'm assuming we are discussing 12 gauge guns. Both are good guns but I think the Citori is better. I think the Citori quality control is better and prefer the Browning safety set up over the Ruger. The Red Labels do not have the same reputation for durability as the Brownings. Brownings are more common on the clay target fields and clay shooters can go through many thousands of rounds yearly. Choke tubes and other accessories for the Brownings also seem more available.

For upland hunting, lighter is better but neither gun is a lightweight. A lighter gun will kick a little more but not enough to notice for typical hunting between the Ruger and Browning in my opinion.

Why are you going with 26" barrels? Longer barrels promote a smoother swing and should you decide to take up clay target shooting 28" is usually the minimum on sporting and skeet fields with 30" being the most common. I hunt dense cover with a 28" side by side and haven't noticed a drawback with longer barrels. 28" barrels will also be easier to sell should you decide you want a different gun. I've found the Brownings are easier to resell than Rugers but the target shooters are swapping guns all the time.

This is, of course, my opinion and shotguns are an individual thing. I'd try both guns if I could or at the very least try a few dry mounts in the gunshop. If the Ruger feels like it was made for you and the Browning swings like a 2x4 then the decision is easy. Manipulate both safeties and see which one is better to you.

I prefer the Browning yet a man I know swears by his two Red Labels -- a 12 and a 20. For him there is no other gun.

Either way you will end up with a fine firearm.

rugerfreak · November 28, 2001, 11:25 PM

Citori more durable than the Red Label???? Dream on!!

Red Labels are bullet-proof----part of the reason they weigh more than a Citori.

The way Red Labels flop open is a design feature---not a sign of poor quality.

Also---go with the 26'' barrels---lighter weight---quicker handling---and just plain handier overall. All your velocity is gained in the first 20'' of barrel.

Shooting clays is fun---but not what your getting your gun for.

Danny45 · November 29, 2001, 12:03 AM

I'd suggest the Browning over the Ruger too. But you might look at Franchi's new Veloce. You should find one much cheaper than either the Browning or Ruger. I paid $900.00 for NIB one at the big gun show here not long ago. They come in 20 or 28 gauge with 28 inch barrels. They weight less than 6 pounds and are a dream to shoot. They are beautifully made too! The pics on their website doesn't do it justice at all. The engraving is immaculate and it's just a beautiful firearm. Hard to beat an Italian shotgun! It's the second Over/Under I've owned. I had a Sig Arms SA-3 12 gauge Over/Under too. It was a good gun, but not as nice as the Franchi. It cost alot more too! I sold it to a friend when I bought the Franchi. Oh, btw, the Franchi will shoot 3 inch shells too in case you want to tackle pheasants with it.

Damn, I sound like an ad. But I just love that gun!

Dave McC · November 29, 2001, 06:27 AM

If I were putting together an O/U upland gun of light weight and high quality, I'd be more inclined to the Browning. They have a featherweight version with an alloy receiver that comes in around 6 1/2 lbs, a good weight for upland guns.

Bruce Buck over on Shotgun Report has good things to say about that lightweight Browning. He's always worth a read.

Browning customer service gets some high marks from customers.

Jeeper · November 29, 2001, 09:53 AM

I also like the Browning(since I have one). They are really nice guns and I have had a lot of luck with it during the last 8 years. The Weatherby's are also nice.

six 4 sure · November 29, 2001, 02:57 PM

However, I am looking for a 20 not a 12.

Where do you think the Beretta's fall into the mix?

K80Geoff · November 29, 2001, 04:14 PM

I have owned a Beretta 686 and a Ruger Red Label. I preferred the Beretta as I felt it was a higher quality gun. I have shot Brownings and don't like their feel. But that is my own opinion, they are well made guns. Many folks shoot Brownings and swear by them.

My Ruger was a 20 GA and I enjoyed shooting it, sold it to buy a K20. Same with the Beretta, which was a 28GA gun. The Beretta had 26" bbls which for me was a mistake, too short and could not swing them consistently. The Technoid's wife shoots the same gun at Connecticut Travellers shoots and does well with it. I guess it depends on your own likes and dislikes.

My Ruger had 30" bls and was a sweet handling gun. It did kick but in a 20 for me that is not a problem. Ruger 12's I have never liked, just do not feel right. Rugers have loose ribs that rattle and a poor stock design. But they are sturdy and will last generations. You will not get as much in resale from a Ruger and you will from a Beretta or Citori.

You just have to try each gun and decide for yourself.

maxwayne · November 29, 2001, 05:53 PM

I have had a Red Label for about 10 years and I greatly enjoy it. Put them both to your shoulder and see which one fits you best. I went out to get a Browning, but it didnt fit. The Ruger did.

PJR · November 29, 2001, 10:22 PM

six 4 sure

I was shopping for a 20 o/u earlier this year and am a big Beretta fan. I shoot a 682 for skeet and sporting. But when it came down to it the Browning Feather XS was the gun I chose. I found it better fitted and finished and handled very well. In 20 gauge I don't think you can beat a Citori unless you want to spend a lot more money.

The Beretta 20 just didn't seem as nice.

mikey357 · November 30, 2001, 12:23 AM

While the "Red Label" may INDEED be "bulletproof", you'll see MANY MORE Citori's in the hands of serious competitors, REGARDLESS of the "game"...fact of life...the Ruger IS NOT as "Refined" as the Browning, AND the Citori comes in a dizzying number of variations...also, IF NEEDED, the "Citori" has a trigger that is quite easy for an experienced 'smith to improve...try finding someone to "take on" THAT job with the Ruger!
Finally, Browning parts are easier to come by, if needed...to me, it's a "No Brainer"...CITORI Every Time!!!....mikey357

Zoso · November 30, 2001, 05:27 PM

My vote would have to go with the Browning, when in my arms it just feel and points better than the red label, but the red label is without a doubt a nice weapon, also if your looking for a lightweight bird gun the Franchi Veloce LW is also a sweety, but it doesn't shoot 3 inch shells, you do get 5 five chokes with the Ruger and only three with the Browning and the Red Label costs less, tough call.............

greg c · November 30, 2001, 06:59 PM

Shopping for a 12 ga for quail season earlier in the month, held a 686, citori, and a red label.

686: This gun is light! Action was tight, nice safety/selector controls, mediocre wood and mediocre metal finish beneath the forearm.

Citori Satin Hunter: Solidly built, action tight, good wood, good finish.

Red label: solidly built, action tight, good wood, good finish.

The deciding factor was that the Ruger swung naturally for me, and THAT has bagged me a few quail to date. I also really like the look of the stainless receiver and the deep barrel bluing. (This is available on other models of the Citori) I also got a pretty good deal on it and that's never a bad thing.

I 'm not sure that I understand it when it is said the Red Label is not as "refined" as the Citori, but I am sure that this is a nice rugged tool that should outlast me.

Oh, BTW, this was a 28" model.

Will Beararms · November 30, 2001, 09:18 PM

Two words" Pietro Beretta. Your'e already in the high dollar neiborhood, why not have the best?

Danny45 · November 30, 2001, 11:00 PM

Zoso,

Is the "LW" the 28 gauge? My 20 gauge Veloce does handle 3" shells. And it's still under 6 lbs.

November 28, 2001, 10:05 PM	#1
BIGR Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2000 Location: Mountains Posts: 1,385	Which Over And Under Shotgun? HELP...... I need you gun gurus advice on an over and under shotgun. The decision is between the Ruger Red Label and the Browning Citori. This over and under shotgun will mainly be used for upland bird hunting. I have looked around a little bit and it looks like the Browning will cost more and might be the lightest of the two guns weight wise.Being that I think the Browning is lighter how is the recoil from the 26 Inch barrel model? I would appreciate any input from anyone on this matter.

November 29, 2001, 12:03 AM	#4
Danny45 Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2000 Location: Tulsa Oklahoma Posts: 434	I'd suggest the Browning over the Ruger too. But you might look at Franchi's new Veloce. You should find one much cheaper than either the Browning or Ruger. I paid $900.00 for NIB one at the big gun show here not long ago. They come in 20 or 28 gauge with 28 inch barrels. They weight less than 6 pounds and are a dream to shoot. They are beautifully made too! The pics on their website doesn't do it justice at all. The engraving is immaculate and it's just a beautiful firearm. Hard to beat an Italian shotgun! It's the second Over/Under I've owned. I had a Sig Arms SA-3 12 gauge Over/Under too. It was a good gun, but not as nice as the Franchi. It cost alot more too! I sold it to a friend when I bought the Franchi. Oh, btw, the Franchi will shoot 3 inch shells too in case you want to tackle pheasants with it. Damn, I sound like an ad. But I just love that gun! __________________ Danny

November 29, 2001, 02:57 PM	#7
six 4 sure Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Location: Harrisburg, IL Posts: 294	I have the same question However, I am looking for a 20 not a 12. Where do you think the Beretta's fall into the mix?

November 29, 2001, 04:14 PM	#8
K80Geoff Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 1998 Location: NE Pennsylvania Posts: 3,639	I have owned a Beretta 686 and a Ruger Red Label. I preferred the Beretta as I felt it was a higher quality gun. I have shot Brownings and don't like their feel. But that is my own opinion, they are well made guns. Many folks shoot Brownings and swear by them. My Ruger was a 20 GA and I enjoyed shooting it, sold it to buy a K20. Same with the Beretta, which was a 28GA gun. The Beretta had 26" bbls which for me was a mistake, too short and could not swing them consistently. The Technoid's wife shoots the same gun at Connecticut Travellers shoots and does well with it. I guess it depends on your own likes and dislikes. My Ruger had 30" bls and was a sweet handling gun. It did kick but in a 20 for me that is not a problem. Ruger 12's I have never liked, just do not feel right. Rugers have loose ribs that rattle and a poor stock design. But they are sturdy and will last generations. You will not get as much in resale from a Ruger and you will from a Beretta or Citori. You just have to try each gun and decide for yourself. __________________ I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye!

November 30, 2001, 12:23 AM	#11
mikey357 Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2000 Location: Griffin, GA, USA Posts: 743	While the "Red Label" may INDEED be "bulletproof", you'll see MANY MORE Citori's in the hands of serious competitors, REGARDLESS of the "game"...fact of life...the Ruger IS NOT as "Refined" as the Browning, AND the Citori comes in a dizzying number of variations...also, IF NEEDED, the "Citori" has a trigger that is quite easy for an experienced 'smith to improve...try finding someone to "take on" THAT job with the Ruger! Finally, Browning parts are easier to come by, if needed...to me, it's a "No Brainer"...CITORI Every Time!!!....mikey357 __________________ mikey357, TFL Member # 7556

November 28, 2001, 10:55 PM	#2
PJR Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Posts: 1,127	I'm assuming we are discussing 12 gauge guns. Both are good guns but I think the Citori is better. I think the Citori quality control is better and prefer the Browning safety set up over the Ruger. The Red Labels do not have the same reputation for durability as the Brownings. Brownings are more common on the clay target fields and clay shooters can go through many thousands of rounds yearly. Choke tubes and other accessories for the Brownings also seem more available. For upland hunting, lighter is better but neither gun is a lightweight. A lighter gun will kick a little more but not enough to notice for typical hunting between the Ruger and Browning in my opinion. Why are you going with 26" barrels? Longer barrels promote a smoother swing and should you decide to take up clay target shooting 28" is usually the minimum on sporting and skeet fields with 30" being the most common. I hunt dense cover with a 28" side by side and haven't noticed a drawback with longer barrels. 28" barrels will also be easier to sell should you decide you want a different gun. I've found the Brownings are easier to resell than Rugers but the target shooters are swapping guns all the time. This is, of course, my opinion and shotguns are an individual thing. I'd try both guns if I could or at the very least try a few dry mounts in the gunshop. If the Ruger feels like it was made for you and the Browning swings like a 2x4 then the decision is easy. Manipulate both safeties and see which one is better to you. I prefer the Browning yet a man I know swears by his two Red Labels -- a 12 and a 20. For him there is no other gun. Either way you will end up with a fine firearm.

November 28, 2001, 11:25 PM	#3
rugerfreak Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2001 Posts: 819	Citori more durable than the Red Label???? Dream on!! Red Labels are bullet-proof----part of the reason they weigh more than a Citori. The way Red Labels flop open is a design feature---not a sign of poor quality. Also---go with the 26'' barrels---lighter weight---quicker handling---and just plain handier overall. All your velocity is gained in the first 20'' of barrel. Shooting clays is fun---but not what your getting your gun for.

November 29, 2001, 06:27 AM	#5
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	If I were putting together an O/U upland gun of light weight and high quality, I'd be more inclined to the Browning. They have a featherweight version with an alloy receiver that comes in around 6 1/2 lbs, a good weight for upland guns. Bruce Buck over on Shotgun Report has good things to say about that lightweight Browning. He's always worth a read. Browning customer service gets some high marks from customers.

November 29, 2001, 09:53 AM	#6
Jeeper Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 776	I also like the Browning(since I have one). They are really nice guns and I have had a lot of luck with it during the last 8 years. The Weatherby's are also nice.

November 29, 2001, 05:53 PM	#9
maxwayne Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2001 Posts: 402	I have had a Red Label for about 10 years and I greatly enjoy it. Put them both to your shoulder and see which one fits you best. I went out to get a Browning, but it didnt fit. The Ruger did.

November 29, 2001, 10:22 PM	#10
PJR Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Posts: 1,127	six 4 sure I was shopping for a 20 o/u earlier this year and am a big Beretta fan. I shoot a 682 for skeet and sporting. But when it came down to it the Browning Feather XS was the gun I chose. I found it better fitted and finished and handled very well. In 20 gauge I don't think you can beat a Citori unless you want to spend a lot more money. The Beretta 20 just didn't seem as nice.

November 30, 2001, 05:27 PM	#12
Zoso Member Join Date: November 24, 2001 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 30	1.Browning 2. Franchi My vote would have to go with the Browning, when in my arms it just feel and points better than the red label, but the red label is without a doubt a nice weapon, also if your looking for a lightweight bird gun the Franchi Veloce LW is also a sweety, but it doesn't shoot 3 inch shells, you do get 5 five chokes with the Ruger and only three with the Browning and the Red Label costs less, tough call.............

November 30, 2001, 06:59 PM	#13
greg c Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2000 Location: Phoenix Az Posts: 113	Shopping for a 12 ga for quail season earlier in the month, held a 686, citori, and a red label. 686: This gun is light! Action was tight, nice safety/selector controls, mediocre wood and mediocre metal finish beneath the forearm. Citori Satin Hunter: Solidly built, action tight, good wood, good finish. Red label: solidly built, action tight, good wood, good finish. The deciding factor was that the Ruger swung naturally for me, and THAT has bagged me a few quail to date. I also really like the look of the stainless receiver and the deep barrel bluing. (This is available on other models of the Citori) I also got a pretty good deal on it and that's never a bad thing. I 'm not sure that I understand it when it is said the Red Label is not as "refined" as the Citori, but I am sure that this is a nice rugged tool that should outlast me. Oh, BTW, this was a 28" model.

November 30, 2001, 09:18 PM	#14
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	Two words" Pietro Beretta. Your'e already in the high dollar neiborhood, why not have the best? __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

November 30, 2001, 11:00 PM	#15
Danny45 Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2000 Location: Tulsa Oklahoma Posts: 434	Zoso, Is the "LW" the 28 gauge? My 20 gauge Veloce does handle 3" shells. And it's still under 6 lbs. __________________ Danny