Glock 23 reloading.

choicesmade24 · July 12, 2009, 08:54 PM

I have a third gen Glock 23C.

Will this be a safe load for this gun?

Brass: once fired winchester
Bullet: 155grain remington JHP
Primer: Winchester small pistol.
Powder: Winchester 231 5.1 Grains (my book shows 33200 PSI at 6 grains and 1.10 OAL)
OAL: 1.12

Will this be safe to shot in my Glock as I of course want to avoid a KB!

tlm225 · July 12, 2009, 10:06 PM

It should be fine. That charge is at the bottom range in my lyman manual.

In my glock 22/23/27 I've been loading the 155 remington JHP with winchester primers since '96. My preferred powder is 7.0 grains of Power Pistol. I've gone up to 7.4 grains with good results.

Shoney · July 13, 2009, 04:53 AM

If you do not want a chance of a KB, don't shoot factory ammo either. There is a percentage of factory loads the KB every year. There are probably more Screwy Lewies gets the big kalooeys, caused by willfully loading above maximum charges. There are certainly double charges every year, caused by inattentive loaders.

Your loads should be fine, as that is a starting load in my literature.

Have you read the part of your manual that tells about working up loads? You know starting with 5-10 rounds each with a given start charge and then 5-10 more with an increment, and so on till you are at max? Then shooting each load at a separate target, stopping if pressure signs are seen. Then sitting down with the targets to see which loads were more accurate? Or if there were trends that will allow you to tweek a load for maximum accuracy?

WESHOOT2 · July 13, 2009, 06:58 AM

KBs happen mostly from bullet setback; ensure sufficient case neck tension.

My 40 S&W / Glock recipe (millions, okay, hundreds of thousands sold

):

-180g Rainier TCJ-FP
-CCI500 / WSP
-sized case, new or used (if case life is not an issue use the LEE 'U' sizer)
-OAL 1.130" +/-.005"
-6.0g Alliant Power Pistol (can be reduced to 5.6g)

av = 870--930fps from Glock 22/23

tested in over one hundred Glocks; no joke

choicesmade24 · July 13, 2009, 12:27 PM

So should I get a Lee "U" sizer and a factory crimp die to ensure that the bullet does not get set back? Will just the factory crimp die be sufficent?

Shoney · July 13, 2009, 01:37 PM

If you have properly sized the case, and set the seat/crimp die 1/4 turn past whare it just takes the bell out of the case, then the neck tension is sufficient to hold the bullet in place.

To test if you have enough tension, common practice is to take a cartridge, push the beuult into your bench as hard as you can (within reason) to see if the bullet sets back. If it does, increase the seat/crimp die another 1/4 turn, and also raising the seating stem the appropriate amount.

I am not a fan of the LFCD. Many people state that using the LCFD is good way to clean up sloppy reloads, done with bad techniques. also, if you shoot lead (and it can be done safely in a Glock but thats for another thread) the LFCD will size down the case and thereby size downthe lead bullet within the case. Lead bullets are 0.001 to 0.02 inches larger than bore.

choicesmade24 · July 13, 2009, 02:30 PM

I already own the lee crimp die so it is what i will be using. I do not plan on shooting lead only jacketed and plated lead.

Dan The Sig Man · July 13, 2009, 03:50 PM

I too am a Glock 23 Owner, and I have to say that this past weekend, I shot 200 reloads through my G23 with factory barrel just fine. Now I am using FMJ's which is the best to use if you are going to reload for the G23. I did however shoot about 20 JHP out if it as well. I usually keep it loaded for home safety with JHP, and burn through them when they have been sitting for a month or so, just to keep them fresh. I have been loading for my G23 about 3 months now, and I must say that I have seen some very good results from the reloads for the G23. Just stay within the suggested loads and buy GOOD quiality componets. I buy Precision Delta Bullets and ONLY use Once fired Brass (And I DO NOT pick them up at the Range, nor do I pick mine up after 1 reload, Ijust sweep them away). Just something I have read along the way. Once use your Brass once for the G23, less change of a KB.

Good luck and have fin and be very careful, that is the only thing that will make is Safe... DV

jepp2 · July 13, 2009, 05:18 PM

My experience says the BEST way to check for setback, is to load 2 rounds in the magazine - check the OAL of the first round into the magazine. Fire the top rouind, and eject the second round and check the OAL to determine the setback for that round in your pistol.

As I check my reloads, most of the neck tension is from the sized case expanding the length of the bullet. Expanding the neck only impacts the mouth of the case. If you are properly resizing the case and not WAY overexpanding the mouth, the taper crimp will not improve resistance to setback. It will only return the case mouth to pre-expansion dimensions.

WESHOOT2 · July 13, 2009, 05:35 PM

Crimp does not secure the bullet.

A properly sized case will, but oh-so-often we use well-used cases that no longer retain their ability to secure the bullet when conventionally sized; hence the LEE 'U' die.
It resizes to a greater degree than standard sizers, reducing case diameter further (below minimum spec).

The LEE Carbide Factory Crimp die is an excellent choice for auto-loader cartridges, as regardless of its additional capability for full-length sizing, it's still a fine crimp die.
I use them for almost all auto-loader cartridges (I gotta lotta dies, and sometimes I do special stuff).

Today I made 1,500 45 ACP using a LEE 'U' sizer mounted on one dedicated toolhead; I was loading a customer's used fired cases and a .451" Penn 230g (actual weight: 236g) LRN.
Pushed a few nose-first into my bench using my full body weight, about 180lb.
No setback.
I love that.....

choicesmade24 · July 13, 2009, 09:33 PM

Where does one buy a "U" die for 40 s&w
?

D. Manley · July 13, 2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

40 S&W, Glocks, KBs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KBs happen mostly from bullet setback; ensure sufficient case neck tension.

My 40 S&W / Glock recipe (millions, okay, hundreds of thousands sold ):

-180g Rainier TCJ-FP
-CCI500 / WSP
-sized case, new or used (if case life is not an issue use the LEE 'U' sizer)
-OAL 1.130" +/-.005"
-6.0g Alliant Power Pistol (can be reduced to 5.6g)

av = 870--930fps from Glock 22/23

You know, logic would indeed point to the U-Dies reducing case life and I've seen lots of comments by some folks expressing that caveat as a reason not to use them but...

Thinking about it in a different light, the extra .001 it sizes the case is less than the chamber differences between different guns. I've been using them in multiple calibers for quite a while and if they do shorten case life in the real world, can't be by much, I can't tell any difference. I was just wondering if your personal experience on this is different from mine?

choicesmade24 · July 13, 2009, 10:23 PM

I just made a "dummy" round with no primer and no powder. I cycled it through my Glock 23c about 15 times. The bullet moved back a slight amount after the 4 cycle and never got worse. It went from 1.130 oal to 1.125. I think I feel comfortable with a change of only .005 especially since I am starting near the max oal. I don't believe however that I will reload the brass more than once without a "U" size die.

Where can I buy a U size die though?

WESHOOT2 · July 14, 2009, 04:50 AM

My 'U' dies go .003--.005" less than any of my other dies (I have numerous examples in certain chamberings, and like other die brands, it seems all vary a 'bit'. One important reason why I own so many dies).

I call LEE on the telephone and order them.
I understand EGW offers them from stock (www.egw-guns.com).

I use them in 38 Special and 9x19 and 9x21 (rarely) and 40 S&W and 357 Magnum and 10mm and 45 ACP. But NOT always.
I think that's all

Case life, as such, is NEVER an issue with me; I have many cases. I concern myself most with the NEXT TIME I expect it to go bang.
After THAT I consider its life

IMactualE the 'U' die reduces case life. BFD, ay?

WESHOOT2 · July 14, 2009, 04:56 AM

I'd consider a shortening of .005" after all those cyclings to be fine.

I've reloaded quite a 'few' cases in numerous chamberings, to include the 40 S&W, without benefit of a 'U' die. With great success, I might (modestly) add.
Often it depends of bullet diameter. I have many different '40 S&W' bullets that run under .3995". I prefer my lead-bullet choices measure at least .401".
But if I'm using .4535" bullets in the 45 ACP, I don't bother with a 'U' die.
Or .359" lead in 357 Magnum/38 Special.
And so on.......

choicesmade24 · July 14, 2009, 06:40 PM

Would this redding push through be better than a "U" die?

http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/grxpushthru.html

bullspotter · July 14, 2009, 07:45 PM

Im not a real fan of this push though die, I did look at it and its a great idea!! so i decided to make a push though out of my rcbs sizer.......great idea!!! WRONG... after spending several hours milliing the push rod, tapping the shell holder for a set screw to secure it and lopping off the top of a new rcbs carbide die, i found that a 40 brass will not push though. Goes right to the rim and thats it, I tried sevral brass and couldnt get one to even come close to going though my rcbs die, had to beat the cases back out from the top. Now this tells me that this push though die is a bit bigger dia then the rcbs, and might not take the brass down small enough for good bullet tension. But would be great if you really need to get some bulges out of brass all the way to the rim. I shoot uspsa with a g-22 and have had no trouble with my rcbs dies set up normal for sizing brass, have yet to have one not sized small enough to chamber free in either barrel i have.

D. Manley · July 14, 2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Would this redding push through be better than a "U" die?

Actually, "no". Nothing wrong with the GRX die or it's predecessor by another company call, the "Gizmo". These are intended to bring the base of the case back into specs after being expanded due to heavy loads, unsupported feed ramp, etc. Normal sizing dies cannot size low enough on the case to remove this type of problem.

For this, they are fine but it does nothing for case tension since the cases must still be resized normally prior to loading. The U-Dies on the other hand, are conventional sizing dies (made by Lee) that simply size the case a thousandth or so smaller than a normal sizing die. This little bit of extra case tension cures the problem of inadequate case tension from various causes and provides an extra margin of safety against setback.

If you have no problems with a sized case (prior to loading) chambering or passing your case gauge, then the GRX is unnecessary. On the other hand, if you happen to have a lot of severely bulged brass that does not, then it might be a good idea. FWIW, I use the U-Dies on all range brass in 9MM, .40, .45 and even, .38/.357. I gauge every sized case prior to storage and out of 30+ thousand so far, not a single one failed the gauge due to a bulge.

July 12, 2009, 08:54 PM	#1
choicesmade24 Member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 57	Glock 23 reloading. I have a third gen Glock 23C. Will this be a safe load for this gun? Brass: once fired winchester Bullet: 155grain remington JHP Primer: Winchester small pistol. Powder: Winchester 231 5.1 Grains (my book shows 33200 PSI at 6 grains and 1.10 OAL) OAL: 1.12 Will this be safe to shot in my Glock as I of course want to avoid a KB!

July 12, 2009, 10:06 PM	#2
tlm225 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 962	It should be fine. That charge is at the bottom range in my lyman manual. In my glock 22/23/27 I've been loading the 155 remington JHP with winchester primers since '96. My preferred powder is 7.0 grains of Power Pistol. I've gone up to 7.4 grains with good results. __________________ All that is neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

July 13, 2009, 04:53 AM	#3
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	If you do not want a chance of a KB, don't shoot factory ammo either. There is a percentage of factory loads the KB every year. There are probably more Screwy Lewies gets the big kalooeys, caused by willfully loading above maximum charges. There are certainly double charges every year, caused by inattentive loaders. Your loads should be fine, as that is a starting load in my literature. Have you read the part of your manual that tells about working up loads? You know starting with 5-10 rounds each with a given start charge and then 5-10 more with an increment, and so on till you are at max? Then shooting each load at a separate target, stopping if pressure signs are seen. Then sitting down with the targets to see which loads were more accurate? Or if there were trends that will allow you to tweek a load for maximum accuracy? __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

July 13, 2009, 06:58 AM	#4
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	40 S&W, Glocks, KBs KBs happen mostly from bullet setback; ensure sufficient case neck tension. My 40 S&W / Glock recipe (millions, okay, hundreds of thousands sold ): -180g Rainier TCJ-FP -CCI500 / WSP -sized case, new or used (if case life is not an issue use the LEE 'U' sizer) -OAL 1.130" +/-.005" -6.0g Alliant Power Pistol (can be reduced to 5.6g) av = 870--930fps from Glock 22/23 tested in over one hundred Glocks; no joke __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 13, 2009, 01:37 PM	#6
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	If you have properly sized the case, and set the seat/crimp die 1/4 turn past whare it just takes the bell out of the case, then the neck tension is sufficient to hold the bullet in place. To test if you have enough tension, common practice is to take a cartridge, push the beuult into your bench as hard as you can (within reason) to see if the bullet sets back. If it does, increase the seat/crimp die another 1/4 turn, and also raising the seating stem the appropriate amount. I am not a fan of the LFCD. Many people state that using the LCFD is good way to clean up sloppy reloads, done with bad techniques. also, if you shoot lead (and it can be done safely in a Glock but thats for another thread) the LFCD will size down the case and thereby size downthe lead bullet within the case. Lead bullets are 0.001 to 0.02 inches larger than bore. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

July 13, 2009, 12:27 PM	#5
choicesmade24 Member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 57	So should I get a Lee "U" sizer and a factory crimp die to ensure that the bullet does not get set back? Will just the factory crimp die be sufficent?

July 13, 2009, 02:30 PM	#7
choicesmade24 Member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 57	I already own the lee crimp die so it is what i will be using. I do not plan on shooting lead only jacketed and plated lead.

July 13, 2009, 03:50 PM	#8
Dan The Sig Man Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 191	I too am a Glock 23 Owner, and I have to say that this past weekend, I shot 200 reloads through my G23 with factory barrel just fine. Now I am using FMJ's which is the best to use if you are going to reload for the G23. I did however shoot about 20 JHP out if it as well. I usually keep it loaded for home safety with JHP, and burn through them when they have been sitting for a month or so, just to keep them fresh. I have been loading for my G23 about 3 months now, and I must say that I have seen some very good results from the reloads for the G23. Just stay within the suggested loads and buy GOOD quiality componets. I buy Precision Delta Bullets and ONLY use Once fired Brass (And I DO NOT pick them up at the Range, nor do I pick mine up after 1 reload, Ijust sweep them away). Just something I have read along the way. Once use your Brass once for the G23, less change of a KB. Good luck and have fin and be very careful, that is the only thing that will make is Safe... DV

July 13, 2009, 05:18 PM	#9
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	My experience says the BEST way to check for setback, is to load 2 rounds in the magazine - check the OAL of the first round into the magazine. Fire the top rouind, and eject the second round and check the OAL to determine the setback for that round in your pistol. As I check my reloads, most of the neck tension is from the sized case expanding the length of the bullet. Expanding the neck only impacts the mouth of the case. If you are properly resizing the case and not WAY overexpanding the mouth, the taper crimp will not improve resistance to setback. It will only return the case mouth to pre-expansion dimensions.

July 13, 2009, 05:35 PM	#10
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	"all blowed up" Crimp does not secure the bullet. A properly sized case will, but oh-so-often we use well-used cases that no longer retain their ability to secure the bullet when conventionally sized; hence the LEE 'U' die. It resizes to a greater degree than standard sizers, reducing case diameter further (below minimum spec). The LEE Carbide Factory Crimp die is an excellent choice for auto-loader cartridges, as regardless of its additional capability for full-length sizing, it's still a fine crimp die. I use them for almost all auto-loader cartridges (I gotta lotta dies, and sometimes I do special stuff). Today I made 1,500 45 ACP using a LEE 'U' sizer mounted on one dedicated toolhead; I was loading a customer's used fired cases and a .451" Penn 230g (actual weight: 236g) LRN. Pushed a few nose-first into my bench using my full body weight, about 180lb. No setback. I love that..... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 13, 2009, 09:33 PM	#11
choicesmade24 Member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 57	Where does one buy a "U" die for 40 s&w ?

July 13, 2009, 10:23 PM	#13
choicesmade24 Member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 57	I just made a "dummy" round with no primer and no powder. I cycled it through my Glock 23c about 15 times. The bullet moved back a slight amount after the 4 cycle and never got worse. It went from 1.130 oal to 1.125. I think I feel comfortable with a change of only .005 especially since I am starting near the max oal. I don't believe however that I will reload the brass more than once without a "U" size die. Where can I buy a U size die though?

July 14, 2009, 04:50 AM	#14
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	have a 'few' My 'U' dies go .003--.005" less than any of my other dies (I have numerous examples in certain chamberings, and like other die brands, it seems all vary a 'bit'. One important reason why I own so many dies). I call LEE on the telephone and order them. I understand EGW offers them from stock (www.egw-guns.com). I use them in 38 Special and 9x19 and 9x21 (rarely) and 40 S&W and 357 Magnum and 10mm and 45 ACP. But NOT always. I think that's all Case life, as such, is NEVER an issue with me; I have many cases. I concern myself most with the NEXT TIME I expect it to go bang. After THAT I consider its life IMactualE the 'U' die reduces case life. BFD, ay? __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 14, 2009, 04:56 AM	#15
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	ps I'd consider a shortening of .005" after all those cyclings to be fine. I've reloaded quite a 'few' cases in numerous chamberings, to include the 40 S&W, without benefit of a 'U' die. With great success, I might (modestly) add. Often it depends of bullet diameter. I have many different '40 S&W' bullets that run under .3995". I prefer my lead-bullet choices measure at least .401". But if I'm using .4535" bullets in the 45 ACP, I don't bother with a 'U' die. Or .359" lead in 357 Magnum/38 Special. And so on....... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 14, 2009, 06:40 PM	#16
choicesmade24 Member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 57	Would this redding push through be better than a "U" die? http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/grxpushthru.html

July 14, 2009, 07:45 PM	#17
bullspotter Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2008 Location: Montana Posts: 308	Im not a real fan of this push though die, I did look at it and its a great idea!! so i decided to make a push though out of my rcbs sizer.......great idea!!! WRONG... after spending several hours milliing the push rod, tapping the shell holder for a set screw to secure it and lopping off the top of a new rcbs carbide die, i found that a 40 brass will not push though. Goes right to the rim and thats it, I tried sevral brass and couldnt get one to even come close to going though my rcbs die, had to beat the cases back out from the top. Now this tells me that this push though die is a bit bigger dia then the rcbs, and might not take the brass down small enough for good bullet tension. But would be great if you really need to get some bulges out of brass all the way to the rim. I shoot uspsa with a g-22 and have had no trouble with my rcbs dies set up normal for sizing brass, have yet to have one not sized small enough to chamber free in either barrel i have.