more on the blunderbuss?

bamaranger · January 3, 2019, 03:59 AM

I am still hung up on the idea of a blunderbuss, though I may never pursue the project. Here's my current question, for those familiar with the Traditions blunderbuss and its silly, Pilgrim, Elmer Fudd, trumpet muzzle, which is a complete turn off for me.

Could that trumpet flare be safely and practically trimmed off, to render a more authentic looking belled/tapered muzzle?

Doing so would allow the eye to see past the huge flare and give a better sight picture ( I use the phrase lightly). Plus, once out of the way/gone, there would seem room to arrange and slot and thimbles for a ram rod, which the Elmer Fudd version (due to the goofy muzzle) does not allow.

Again, this is for conversation at present. The Traditions B-Buss kits are still out there, is this a plausible modification.

l.cutler · January 3, 2019, 05:14 AM

If you really want a blunderbuss I would just skip the traditions completely, there is really nothing right about it and I doubt you would be happy with it. There are higher quality parts sets out there but they are quite costly.

Jim Watson · January 3, 2019, 10:58 AM

Even the thousand dollar blunderbuss kit has a smooth "bugle" contour barrel.
I expect to see a banded muzzle like a cannon.
Middlesex has them but I think they are Indian made of indifferent quality.

Somebody on another thread said: "For the homesteader of frontierman, the common fowler would be far more practical,"

zxcvbob · January 3, 2019, 11:44 AM

I thought smooth-bore and a silly bugle muzzle were the defining characteristics of a blunderbuss. Without the funnel, it's just a short barrel shotgun -- not that there's anything wrong with that.

T. O'Heir · January 3, 2019, 01:35 PM

That trumpet flare is there to aid loading. Kind of defines 'blunderbuss' too.
However, if cutting it off doesn't give the local AFT fits about short things, it's just like cutting a modern shotgun barrel. As I recall, there's no chokes on 'em. Makes it into a short barreled musket.

bladesmith 1 · January 3, 2019, 02:55 PM

Here is something you could live with, $675 with a L&R lock and a ram rod to boot. What's not to like ? I may get one myself.
http://longrifles-pr.com/blunderbuss.shtml

arcticap · January 3, 2019, 03:03 PM

I briefly had a Traditions Blunderbuss that was a kit gun assembled in the white by the staff at Traditions but then sold it unfired.
The wrist on the blunderbuss stock was thick and beefy, and it had a nice trigger.
IMO removing the muzzle is a viable possibility.
IIRC there may have been a relatively invisible seam where the bell section was welded to the barrel.
I can't say for sure because of how faint the seam was, and I couldn't really tell if it was a machine mark or not.
If it was a weld it was polished out.
But that shouldn't affect where the trumpet could be cut off at.
I think that the criticism of the model is a little bit unfair.
Where else can a person find a percussion blunderbuss for that price?
Hovey Smith wrote some articles and made videos about the game that he shot with it, and how he learned to aim it.
He eventually built up the comb of the stock to help with his aim.
The links to his videos about it are contained in his 2 articles:

1. https://hoveysknivesofchina.com/2012...nd-small-game/

2. https://hoveysknivesofchina.com/2013...rbuss-shot-lo/

I think that it's a recreational piece that can be experimented with to enjoy its virtues.
I've loaded my BP 28 gauge shotgun [.55 bore] with shot loads that exceed many modern 12 ga. loads.
Ballistics Products sells 28 gauge regular & magnum shotshell wads that should help to improve patterns with its open cylinder choke.
Hovey used regular .54 caliber sabots as a base wad for 1 oz. loads of shot.
For those who don't want to use plastic there's plenty of other options.
Aiming may be a challenge but then it's not an open choke flintlock, but rather built in a handy & functional percussion configuration.

arcticap · January 3, 2019, 03:31 PM

How this for an idea?

Cut a slot or wedge [triangle] shape into the top of the trumpet and use that as a unique sighting device.

Or should I say to cut a slot or wedge [triangle] shape out of the top of the trumpet.....?

Then the bottom of the slot or triangle cut out could be more finely tuned to regulate its general point of impact to the point of aim.

The slot opening would only need to be wide enough to be able to see the target past the part of the trumpet that's blocking it.

Just thinking outside the box about it.......

I think that it could work and make it really unique, although perhaps hideous looking.
But as they say, necessity is the mother of invention.

Jim Watson · January 3, 2019, 03:43 PM

bladesmith 1
Member

Join Date: July 14, 2018
Posts: 18
Here is something you could live with, $675 with a L&R lock and a ram rod to boot. What's not to like ? I may get one myself.
http://longrifles-pr.com/blunderbuss.shtml

That is more what a blunderbus should look like.

arcticap · January 3, 2019, 03:47 PM

Shoot it, it's your money!

bamaranger · January 3, 2019, 11:09 PM

Yeah, I know that guy that made that comment!

This blunderbuss talk is for fun,,,,,,could it be done, has anybody done it, etc.

And yes, the "longrifles" kit gun looks more like a blunderbuss should. The Traditions gun looks like something from a cartoon.

Regards cutting one down.......here in the States, there is no restriction on the barrel length of a BP shotgun. Pedersoli sells a "cavalry double barrel" that has tubes of 14". It is SHORT.

darkgael · January 4, 2019, 07:45 AM

I have had a Middlesex BB for some years now. I am quite satisfied with it. It has always worked properly and is a hoot to shoot. With a 14" barrel everything is right THERE in front of your nose. Easy to clean, well balanced, lock, barrel, stock properly fitted. No complaints. Quite a handy little item. While it is nominally a 20 ga. gun, it is really more an 18 gauge. proper wads, etc., available from Circle Fly.
It is very similar to the A. Morrow Blunderbuss (Philadelphia, 1790) pictured on page 19 of James Forman's "The Blunderbuss 1500-1900".
Pete

arcticap · January 4, 2019, 03:09 PM

bamaranger, I know that you think that it looks like a cartoon gun, but if you look at
enough originals & reproductions, it really doesn't look like a cartoon gun at all.

The flared muzzle on blunderbusses come in all different sizes.
Perhaps the pirates of old needed to load them in a real hurry.

1. https://www.pinterest.com/VanDiemensLand/blunderbuss/

2. https://www.ima-usa.com/products/ori...gun-circa-1775

bamaranger · January 6, 2019, 11:41 PM

Looked at the pics in the links, and there certainly is some wide variety in the degree or extent of flare. The Traditions 'buss seems to take it to the next level, but I will concede that some of that could be my tastes.

In looking at the pics further, one issue that seems to stand out on the Traditions gun is that the forestock does not extent as far forward as many of the originals, and that seems to enhance the appearance of the flare for the Traditions version.

All for fun, I may never do it, probably won't, but it sure is interesting the number of folks who have pursued the 'buss when you search and review videos and text.

arcticap · January 8, 2019, 03:00 AM

It would have probably been more of a successful model if it were a .58.
But then it would probably have needed a more heavy duty barrel to be able to handle .570 balls.

arcticap · January 19, 2019, 10:53 PM

A new 2.5 minute video posted by someone who recently completed their Traditions Blunderbuss kit and fired it a bunch of times:--->>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-N9jY8LH_k

bladesmith 1 · January 20, 2019, 03:26 PM

I believe, but not sure, that a bigger bore has less pressure that a small one because there's more material for the charge to act against. At least with modern shotguns, the 28 has higher pressures than a 12ga.

bamaranger · January 21, 2019, 01:07 AM

I looked at the new video, seems a hoot! The shooter states he shot "BB's" which makes me think like Daisy BB gun, which I believe are steel. Not that it matters, but I would think that would not be good for the b-buss bore.

And once again, somebody else interested in a blunderbuss.

darkgael · January 21, 2019, 08:15 AM

Found this picture. This is exactly like the BB that I have.

arcticap · January 23, 2019, 01:10 AM

This X-mas Traditions blunderbuss video popped up doing a search for a Traditions Trapper pistol.
The proud builder loaded it up with 80 grains of 3F and eight .38 caliber balls and doesn't even flinch when he fires it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S79EuV6Iw6U

Jim Watson · January 23, 2019, 07:29 AM

New American Rifleman shows a period flintlock pistol blunderbus.

bamaranger · January 23, 2019, 10:34 PM

That flintlock looks pretty good.

Will find the pistol in the Rifleman.

Schlitz 45 · January 23, 2019, 10:48 PM

I've wanted a blunderbuss ever since I saw Uncle Fester defending the Addams front porch & looked at putting one together on & off for a long time & it's still a possibility. I have now scratched that itch with a new howdah pistol that I'm awaiting delivery on-much like the BB it's blackpowder but has a 209 primer ignition, double 12 gauge bores, & a bit smaller package.

January 3, 2019, 03:59 AM	#1
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,303	more on the blunderbuss? I am still hung up on the idea of a blunderbuss, though I may never pursue the project. Here's my current question, for those familiar with the Traditions blunderbuss and its silly, Pilgrim, Elmer Fudd, trumpet muzzle, which is a complete turn off for me. Could that trumpet flare be safely and practically trimmed off, to render a more authentic looking belled/tapered muzzle? Doing so would allow the eye to see past the huge flare and give a better sight picture ( I use the phrase lightly). Plus, once out of the way/gone, there would seem room to arrange and slot and thimbles for a ram rod, which the Elmer Fudd version (due to the goofy muzzle) does not allow. Again, this is for conversation at present. The Traditions B-Buss kits are still out there, is this a plausible modification.

January 3, 2019, 11:44 AM	#4
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I thought smooth-bore and a silly bugle muzzle were the defining characteristics of a blunderbuss. Without the funnel, it's just a short barrel shotgun -- not that there's anything wrong with that. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

January 3, 2019, 01:35 PM	#5
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	That trumpet flare is there to aid loading. Kind of defines 'blunderbuss' too. However, if cutting it off doesn't give the local AFT fits about short things, it's just like cutting a modern shotgun barrel. As I recall, there's no chokes on 'em. Makes it into a short barreled musket. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 3, 2019, 03:03 PM	#7
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	I briefly had a Traditions Blunderbuss that was a kit gun assembled in the white by the staff at Traditions but then sold it unfired. The wrist on the blunderbuss stock was thick and beefy, and it had a nice trigger. IMO removing the muzzle is a viable possibility. IIRC there may have been a relatively invisible seam where the bell section was welded to the barrel. I can't say for sure because of how faint the seam was, and I couldn't really tell if it was a machine mark or not. If it was a weld it was polished out. But that shouldn't affect where the trumpet could be cut off at. I think that the criticism of the model is a little bit unfair. Where else can a person find a percussion blunderbuss for that price? Hovey Smith wrote some articles and made videos about the game that he shot with it, and how he learned to aim it. He eventually built up the comb of the stock to help with his aim. The links to his videos about it are contained in his 2 articles: 1. https://hoveysknivesofchina.com/2012...nd-small-game/ 2. https://hoveysknivesofchina.com/2013...rbuss-shot-lo/ I think that it's a recreational piece that can be experimented with to enjoy its virtues. I've loaded my BP 28 gauge shotgun [.55 bore] with shot loads that exceed many modern 12 ga. loads. Ballistics Products sells 28 gauge regular & magnum shotshell wads that should help to improve patterns with its open cylinder choke. Hovey used regular .54 caliber sabots as a base wad for 1 oz. loads of shot. For those who don't want to use plastic there's plenty of other options. Aiming may be a challenge but then it's not an open choke flintlock, but rather built in a handy & functional percussion configuration. Last edited by arcticap; January 4, 2019 at 06:41 AM.

January 3, 2019, 03:31 PM	#8
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	How this for an idea? Cut a slot or wedge [triangle] shape into the top of the trumpet and use that as a unique sighting device. Or should I say to cut a slot or wedge [triangle] shape out of the top of the trumpet.....? Then the bottom of the slot or triangle cut out could be more finely tuned to regulate its general point of impact to the point of aim. The slot opening would only need to be wide enough to be able to see the target past the part of the trumpet that's blocking it. Just thinking outside the box about it....... I think that it could work and make it really unique, although perhaps hideous looking. But as they say, necessity is the mother of invention. Last edited by arcticap; January 3, 2019 at 03:46 PM.

January 3, 2019, 05:14 AM	#2
l.cutler Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Posts: 275	If you really want a blunderbuss I would just skip the traditions completely, there is really nothing right about it and I doubt you would be happy with it. There are higher quality parts sets out there but they are quite costly.

January 3, 2019, 10:58 AM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	Even the thousand dollar blunderbuss kit has a smooth "bugle" contour barrel. I expect to see a banded muzzle like a cannon. Middlesex has them but I think they are Indian made of indifferent quality. Somebody on another thread said: "For the homesteader of frontierman, the common fowler would be far more practical,"

January 3, 2019, 02:55 PM	#6
bladesmith 1 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2018 Posts: 240	Here is something you could live with, $675 with a L&R lock and a ram rod to boot. What's not to like ? I may get one myself. http://longrifles-pr.com/blunderbuss.shtml

January 3, 2019, 03:43 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	bladesmith 1 Member Join Date: July 14, 2018 Posts: 18 Here is something you could live with, $675 with a L&R lock and a ram rod to boot. What's not to like ? I may get one myself. http://longrifles-pr.com/blunderbuss.shtml That is more what a blunderbus should look like.

January 3, 2019, 03:47 PM	#10
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Shoot it, it's your money!

January 3, 2019, 11:09 PM	#11
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,303	fowler Yeah, I know that guy that made that comment! This blunderbuss talk is for fun,,,,,,could it be done, has anybody done it, etc. And yes, the "longrifles" kit gun looks more like a blunderbuss should. The Traditions gun looks like something from a cartoon. Regards cutting one down.......here in the States, there is no restriction on the barrel length of a BP shotgun. Pedersoli sells a "cavalry double barrel" that has tubes of 14". It is SHORT.

January 4, 2019, 07:45 AM	#12
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	I have had a Middlesex BB for some years now. I am quite satisfied with it. It has always worked properly and is a hoot to shoot. With a 14" barrel everything is right THERE in front of your nose. Easy to clean, well balanced, lock, barrel, stock properly fitted. No complaints. Quite a handy little item. While it is nominally a 20 ga. gun, it is really more an 18 gauge. proper wads, etc., available from Circle Fly. It is very similar to the A. Morrow Blunderbuss (Philadelphia, 1790) pictured on page 19 of James Forman's "The Blunderbuss 1500-1900". Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member Last edited by darkgael; January 4, 2019 at 08:08 AM.

January 4, 2019, 03:09 PM	#13
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	bamaranger, I know that you think that it looks like a cartoon gun, but if you look at enough originals & reproductions, it really doesn't look like a cartoon gun at all. The flared muzzle on blunderbusses come in all different sizes. Perhaps the pirates of old needed to load them in a real hurry. 1. https://www.pinterest.com/VanDiemensLand/blunderbuss/ 2. https://www.ima-usa.com/products/ori...gun-circa-1775

January 6, 2019, 11:41 PM	#14
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,303	OK Looked at the pics in the links, and there certainly is some wide variety in the degree or extent of flare. The Traditions 'buss seems to take it to the next level, but I will concede that some of that could be my tastes. In looking at the pics further, one issue that seems to stand out on the Traditions gun is that the forestock does not extent as far forward as many of the originals, and that seems to enhance the appearance of the flare for the Traditions version. All for fun, I may never do it, probably won't, but it sure is interesting the number of folks who have pursued the 'buss when you search and review videos and text.

January 8, 2019, 03:00 AM	#15
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	It would have probably been more of a successful model if it were a .58. But then it would probably have needed a more heavy duty barrel to be able to handle .570 balls.

January 19, 2019, 10:53 PM	#16
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	A new 2.5 minute video posted by someone who recently completed their Traditions Blunderbuss kit and fired it a bunch of times:--->>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-N9jY8LH_k Last edited by arcticap; January 21, 2019 at 01:13 AM.

January 20, 2019, 03:26 PM	#17
bladesmith 1 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2018 Posts: 240	I believe, but not sure, that a bigger bore has less pressure that a small one because there's more material for the charge to act against. At least with modern shotguns, the 28 has higher pressures than a 12ga.

January 21, 2019, 01:07 AM	#18
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,303	BB's.......wow I looked at the new video, seems a hoot! The shooter states he shot "BB's" which makes me think like Daisy BB gun, which I believe are steel. Not that it matters, but I would think that would not be good for the b-buss bore. And once again, somebody else interested in a blunderbuss.

January 23, 2019, 01:10 AM	#20
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	This X-mas Traditions blunderbuss video popped up doing a search for a Traditions Trapper pistol. The proud builder loaded it up with 80 grains of 3F and eight .38 caliber balls and doesn't even flinch when he fires it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S79EuV6Iw6U

January 23, 2019, 07:29 AM	#21
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	New American Rifleman shows a period flintlock pistol blunderbus.

January 23, 2019, 10:34 PM	#22
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,303	flinter That flintlock looks pretty good. Will find the pistol in the Rifleman.

January 23, 2019, 10:48 PM	#23
Schlitz 45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2018 Location: Colorado Posts: 385	I've wanted a blunderbuss ever since I saw Uncle Fester defending the Addams front porch & looked at putting one together on & off for a long time & it's still a possibility. I have now scratched that itch with a new howdah pistol that I'm awaiting delivery on-much like the BB it's blackpowder but has a 209 primer ignition, double 12 gauge bores, & a bit smaller package.