Cast Bullets Indoor Ban Inland Empire, Cal

WolfTraps · February 14, 2018, 09:18 AM

Bummed out!
I've been casting Pistol/Rifle/Muzzle.. for some 40 years with my local pistol indoor range saying "cast bullets" not allowed?
Yet, I'm wondering..what about 22LR?
What are the answer's?

F. Guffey · February 14, 2018, 09:44 AM

I went to the range, they asked to see my ammo; that is when I was informed I could not shoot full metal jacketed bullets. There was no need to argue even thought there was a tiny hole in the in the nose of the bullets.

I have a cousin that does not own a firearm, I can not remember when he did not live in California, he now lives a few miles north of me and is saying he got to Texas as soon as he could. I have been to California, I survived two riots, two earth quakes and the emptying of a sports bar; they were hollering, "There he is, lets get-em!". Long story.

F. Guffey

reddog81 · February 14, 2018, 10:19 AM

You'd have to ask them. Different ranges have different rules.

FITASC · February 14, 2018, 10:21 AM

Indoor lead ban - maybe their air handling system isn't up to snuff?

USSR · February 14, 2018, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Indoor lead ban - maybe their air handling system isn't up to snuff?

The lead to worry about indoors comes from the primer, not the bullet.

Don

locknloader · February 14, 2018, 11:08 AM

Just keep shooting them, if someone gives you crap tell them they are swaged and not cast

Nothing makes me more angry then the self-designated "range police" who try to give people a hard time about silly rules like this.

mikld · February 14, 2018, 11:35 AM

It's in California! Weird "laws" are enacted in CA all the time. When lead wheel weights were banned in CA, a politician stated; "Lead wheel weights fly of cars and trucks and get run over by passing vehicles and ground up. Then the rain comes and washes this pulverized lead off the road, into the dirt where it seeps down int the water table and contaminates the drinking water". Evil little buggers, ain't they...

Perhaps the county health dept is trying to put pressure on shooting sports?

F. Guffey · February 14, 2018, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Nothing makes me more angry then the self-designated "range police" who try to give people a hard time about silly rules like this.

Do not allow them to provoke you, I have started getting e-mail from a large group that was complaining years ago. I got involved, when it was all over I was the only one left. I asked them if they wanted me to feel sorry for them.

One of them said he felt sorry for me, I ask why? I upset everyone you did nothing.

F. Guffey

locknloader · February 14, 2018, 12:39 PM

I put my foot down the first time I had an encounter and now i am left alone. Bully's only feel good when their prey backs down, if you confront them, they suddenly don't know what to do because they know they are being jerks.

You have to with those type of people of they will annoy you every chance they get to inflate their ego. Funny thing is, its usually the people who hang out like its a social club and not a gun range. They are always around, but you never see them shooting guns, just shooting their mouth off.

Northof50 · February 14, 2018, 05:23 PM

I'm a bit confused by some of the replies. As I see it, you belong to a private range which enacted a rule. Basically, the suggestions have been to "ignore the rule" "side-step the rule" and those who enacted the rule are "bullies." ????

You have 3 choices:
1- find another range
2- ask why the rule - find evidence to contradict their reason [if there is any] - get other members who shoot cast bullets to sign a petition and present the organization with the petition and reasoning
3- stay there and don't shoot cast bullets

Gemmer · February 14, 2018, 05:54 PM

I’m confused also. Agree with WolfTraps.

m&p45acp10+1 · February 14, 2018, 07:21 PM

The local indoor range I go to if it is cold and raining will not allow me to shoot my home cast reloads. It is not due to lead, or a ban on reloads. The truth is the lube makes them extra smokey, and the other people shooting were complaining about it. So when I go to shoot there I take the steel case stuff, and do not have to worry about lost brass either.

mikld · February 15, 2018, 12:43 PM

I used to frequent an old range in the LA area, that had "old" ventilation. Even with the older ventilation equipment smoke was not a problem (but black powder ammo was banned). I've fired over lubed alox coated bullets and the smoke just went in front of me and up to the ceiling. I too would politely "challenge" the ruling asking why, as an owner can arbitrarily make a decision, and I agree with Northof50. But it's not my range and I'm just one customer, and if I don't like something about the facilities I'm free to go elsewhere...

Gary Wells · February 15, 2018, 02:04 PM

Maybe the ranges in question not allowing cast lead are not selling enough jacketed ammo. Bet their jacketed ammo is pretty pricey, too.Take one box of jacketed & one box of cast lead. Show them the jacketed, shoot the lead.

hdwhit · February 15, 2018, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Wolftraps wrote:
Cast Bullets Indoor Ban Inland Empire, Cal

Well, is the "ban" a policy of the range or the result of a local/state ordinance?

And if it is a policy of the range, you might want to also ask whether it has to do with liability concerns, insurance concerns or environmental concerns. It could well be that it is a policy change triggered by the range's insurance provider's concerns over environmental lead and the range doesn't want to make the investment in the added equipment necessary to mollify them.

hdwhit · February 15, 2018, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Gary Wells wrote:
Take one box of jacketed & one box of cast lead. Show them the jacketed, shoot the lead.

So, in other words you're telling WolfTraps to lie.

Why let a little thing like integrity get in the way of doing what I want no matter what anyone else says?

hdwhit · February 15, 2018, 03:00 PM

Quote:

locknloader wrote:
Just keep shooting them, if someone gives you crap tell them they are swaged and not cast

So, whether its law or simply range policy, just violate it?

Quote:

Nothing makes me more angry

Well, nothing makes me angrier than someone who is going to come onto private property and start telling the owner or his agent how they are going to behave. That's the kind of lack of respect for both law and private property rights that is contributing to the decline of the country.

FITASC · February 15, 2018, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Well, nothing makes me angrier than someone who is going to come onto private property and start telling the owner or his agent how they are going to behave. That's the kind of lack of respect for both law and private property rights that is contributing to the decline of the country.

+1

Too many "I WANNA DO IT MY WAY ANYWAY" types.

Quote:

You have 3 choices:
1- find another range
2- ask why the rule - find evidence to contradict their reason [if there is any] - get other members who shoot cast bullets to sign a petition and present the organization with the petition and reasoning
3- stay there and don't shoot cast bullets

Yep Agree 100%.

Gary Wells · February 15, 2018, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdwhit

So, in other words you're telling WolfTraps to lie.

Why let a little thing like integrity get in the way of doing what I want no matter what anyone else says?

Yep, I'm telling whoever to do whatever works best for him.
I shoot at a great range in SoCal that does not enact any stupid policies.
They do enforce all necessary city, county, State, & federal laws. Not all people have opportunity to belong to such a great range. And I do sympathize with the people that have no other place to shoot other than some money hungry range that creates policies simply for the buck.

Marco Califo · February 15, 2018, 08:39 PM

It is very standard operating procedure to not allow exposed lead at indoor ranges in California. But at outdoor ranges that does not apply.
These ranges: Los Angeles Gun Club and the Firingline chain of ranges (no relation to this forum) have had these rules for years. Use plated, and everything is fine. The Firingline ranges host Security classes and Qualifications. If you want your permit, you follow directions and use their ammo, which looks plated.
You DO NOT debate or discuss it with the range. If you try to, they will tell you to leave.
There ARE outdoor ranges for those who must shoot cast, sawaged, or exposed lead.

Chainsaw. · February 15, 2018, 09:36 PM

To the O.P.
What about powdercoated bullets? Its easy to do, cost very little and acts like a jacket to keep the lead in. Plus, you get to keep casting!

Gary Wells · February 15, 2018, 09:49 PM

I'm a member of and shoot at The Firing Line indoor range in HB, CA. I love it. Great Range Masters, low membership rates, great instructors, very fair rules enforced fairly across the board, not so great lighting though.

JT-AR-MG42 · February 15, 2018, 11:19 PM

Funny stuff being said here.

If all of you who think the rules are for others would get together and open your own indoor range,
you can bet I'll be willing to make a trip.

I've never been to an indoor center fire range anyway (nearest is about 250 miles) and have a bunch of steel core to burn up.
My outdoor ranges banned the stuff years ago.

JT

locknloader · February 16, 2018, 07:47 AM

We're talking about shooting lead at an indoor pistol range, not knowingly causing damage to a backstop/bullet trap with steel penetrator rounds.

If the rule is specifically against "cast" bullets then whoever made that rule is pretty stupid, because a cast and a swaged pure lead bullet are essentially the same end product, its the manufacturing process they are making the rule against.

If the OP wants to break the rule it's up to him, he just needs to decide if the penalty for doing so is worth it. Get banned from the range, maybe not a great idea... Get a stern talking to and nothing ultimately done, might work for him....

As others have suggested, who's to say this isin't just a rule on the books to make insurance or some other entity happy, but ultimately not enforced. We're all just speculating here...

Sometimes things are not always black and white.

mikld · February 16, 2018, 07:39 PM

I'd be willing to bet their motive for banning lead bullets is an attempt to make their range lead free for health or enviromental reasons.

February 14, 2018, 09:18 AM	#1
WolfTraps Junior Member Join Date: October 29, 2015 Posts: 3	Cast Bullets Indoor Ban Inland Empire, Cal Bummed out! I've been casting Pistol/Rifle/Muzzle.. for some 40 years with my local pistol indoor range saying "cast bullets" not allowed? Yet, I'm wondering..what about 22LR? What are the answer's?

February 14, 2018, 10:21 AM	#4
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Indoor lead ban - maybe their air handling system isn't up to snuff? __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

February 14, 2018, 11:35 AM	#7
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	It's in California! Weird "laws" are enacted in CA all the time. When lead wheel weights were banned in CA, a politician stated; "Lead wheel weights fly of cars and trucks and get run over by passing vehicles and ground up. Then the rain comes and washes this pulverized lead off the road, into the dirt where it seeps down int the water table and contaminates the drinking water". Evil little buggers, ain't they... Perhaps the county health dept is trying to put pressure on shooting sports? __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

February 14, 2018, 07:21 PM	#12
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	The local indoor range I go to if it is cold and raining will not allow me to shoot my home cast reloads. It is not due to lead, or a ban on reloads. The truth is the lube makes them extra smokey, and the other people shooting were complaining about it. So when I go to shoot there I take the steel case stuff, and do not have to worry about lost brass either. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

February 15, 2018, 12:43 PM	#13
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	I used to frequent an old range in the LA area, that had "old" ventilation. Even with the older ventilation equipment smoke was not a problem (but black powder ammo was banned). I've fired over lubed alox coated bullets and the smoke just went in front of me and up to the ceiling. I too would politely "challenge" the ruling asking why, as an owner can arbitrarily make a decision, and I agree with Northof50. But it's not my range and I'm just one customer, and if I don't like something about the facilities I'm free to go elsewhere... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

February 14, 2018, 09:44 AM	#2
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I went to the range, they asked to see my ammo; that is when I was informed I could not shoot full metal jacketed bullets. There was no need to argue even thought there was a tiny hole in the in the nose of the bullets. I have a cousin that does not own a firearm, I can not remember when he did not live in California, he now lives a few miles north of me and is saying he got to Texas as soon as he could. I have been to California, I survived two riots, two earth quakes and the emptying of a sports bar; they were hollering, "There he is, lets get-em!". Long story. F. Guffey

February 14, 2018, 10:19 AM	#3
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	You'd have to ask them. Different ranges have different rules.

February 14, 2018, 11:08 AM	#6
locknloader Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2017 Posts: 164	Just keep shooting them, if someone gives you crap tell them they are swaged and not cast Nothing makes me more angry then the self-designated "range police" who try to give people a hard time about silly rules like this.

February 14, 2018, 12:39 PM	#9
locknloader Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2017 Posts: 164	I put my foot down the first time I had an encounter and now i am left alone. Bully's only feel good when their prey backs down, if you confront them, they suddenly don't know what to do because they know they are being jerks. You have to with those type of people of they will annoy you every chance they get to inflate their ego. Funny thing is, its usually the people who hang out like its a social club and not a gun range. They are always around, but you never see them shooting guns, just shooting their mouth off.

February 14, 2018, 05:23 PM	#10
Northof50 Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2018 Location: Northeast USA Posts: 232	I'm a bit confused by some of the replies. As I see it, you belong to a private range which enacted a rule. Basically, the suggestions have been to "ignore the rule" "side-step the rule" and those who enacted the rule are "bullies." ???? You have 3 choices: 1- find another range 2- ask why the rule - find evidence to contradict their reason [if there is any] - get other members who shoot cast bullets to sign a petition and present the organization with the petition and reasoning 3- stay there and don't shoot cast bullets

February 14, 2018, 05:54 PM	#11
Gemmer Member Join Date: November 15, 2013 Posts: 38	I’m confused also. Agree with WolfTraps.

February 15, 2018, 02:04 PM	#14
Gary Wells Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2009 Posts: 180	Maybe the ranges in question not allowing cast lead are not selling enough jacketed ammo. Bet their jacketed ammo is pretty pricey, too.Take one box of jacketed & one box of cast lead. Show them the jacketed, shoot the lead.

February 15, 2018, 08:39 PM	#20
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	It is very standard operating procedure to not allow exposed lead at indoor ranges in California. But at outdoor ranges that does not apply. These ranges: Los Angeles Gun Club and the Firingline chain of ranges (no relation to this forum) have had these rules for years. Use plated, and everything is fine. The Firingline ranges host Security classes and Qualifications. If you want your permit, you follow directions and use their ammo, which looks plated. You DO NOT debate or discuss it with the range. If you try to, they will tell you to leave. There ARE outdoor ranges for those who must shoot cast, sawaged, or exposed lead. __________________ ............

February 15, 2018, 09:36 PM	#21
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	To the O.P. What about powdercoated bullets? Its easy to do, cost very little and acts like a jacket to keep the lead in. Plus, you get to keep casting! __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

February 15, 2018, 09:49 PM	#22
Gary Wells Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2009 Posts: 180	I'm a member of and shoot at The Firing Line indoor range in HB, CA. I love it. Great Range Masters, low membership rates, great instructors, very fair rules enforced fairly across the board, not so great lighting though.

February 15, 2018, 11:19 PM	#23
JT-AR-MG42 Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 555	Funny stuff being said here. If all of you who think the rules are for others would get together and open your own indoor range, you can bet I'll be willing to make a trip. I've never been to an indoor center fire range anyway (nearest is about 250 miles) and have a bunch of steel core to burn up. My outdoor ranges banned the stuff years ago. JT __________________ I hunt not to kill, but rather to have not played golf...

February 16, 2018, 07:47 AM	#24
locknloader Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2017 Posts: 164	We're talking about shooting lead at an indoor pistol range, not knowingly causing damage to a backstop/bullet trap with steel penetrator rounds. If the rule is specifically against "cast" bullets then whoever made that rule is pretty stupid, because a cast and a swaged pure lead bullet are essentially the same end product, its the manufacturing process they are making the rule against. If the OP wants to break the rule it's up to him, he just needs to decide if the penalty for doing so is worth it. Get banned from the range, maybe not a great idea... Get a stern talking to and nothing ultimately done, might work for him.... As others have suggested, who's to say this isin't just a rule on the books to make insurance or some other entity happy, but ultimately not enforced. We're all just speculating here... Sometimes things are not always black and white.

February 16, 2018, 07:39 PM	#25
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	I'd be willing to bet their motive for banning lead bullets is an attempt to make their range lead free for health or enviromental reasons. __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...